kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 5, 2021 14:06:13 GMT -6
As a songwriter, I have always been impressed how Ringo both supported the song and always brought something creative, arguably, inspired and original to what became increasingly original songs.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 5, 2021 14:41:05 GMT -6
That cymbal thing is the Fairchild or Altec being totally mashed, and the way it releases. I don't give a shit if it's a trash can lid or a dropped bong, that's what it does through that chain.
It's a challenge to think about the mindset and pressures of the fast moving '60's. All the new musical ideas, and the hot new trends in style, and what that would make you think about your bandmate's capabilities
Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except Me And My Monkey, baby.....and listen to the remixes for the most bass and drums!
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Post by superwack on Mar 5, 2021 15:43:36 GMT -6
Ringo was so great they sometimes panned him to his own side! 😆
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Post by mhbunch on Mar 5, 2021 17:34:18 GMT -6
Since this is a gear site I just gotta say I LOVE how the cymbals go “GWOOOOOOOSSSSHHHH” from the compressor when Ringo hits a crash A lot of that is the cymbal design of the time. Thicker brass at the edges, raw finish and heavy machining grooves. Modern cymbals are designed with a very different profile. The older cymbals don't sound all that great with modern recording equipment and you need that band-limited slowness in old tube gear to get the swooosh or else you get the bonk sound. Respectfully disagree. 50s-60s Zildjian cymbals sound incredible with the “modern” recording equipment I use. I’m not a fan of most modern cymbals I’ve heard.
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Post by svart on Mar 5, 2021 17:44:35 GMT -6
A lot of that is the cymbal design of the time. Thicker brass at the edges, raw finish and heavy machining grooves. Modern cymbals are designed with a very different profile. The older cymbals don't sound all that great with modern recording equipment and you need that band-limited slowness in old tube gear to get the swooosh or else you get the bonk sound. Respectfully disagree. 50s-60s Zildjian cymbals sound incredible with the “modern” recording equipment I use. I’m not a fan of most modern cymbals I’ve heard. Well that says it all. I don't like the old cymbals and in think modern cymbals sound way better, lol.
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Post by drumsound on Mar 6, 2021 9:31:30 GMT -6
Since this is a gear site I just gotta say I LOVE how the cymbals go “GWOOOOOOOSSSSHHHH” from the compressor when Ringo hits a crash Revolver is a lesson in creative compression. We all tend to think that Tchad Blake is where that concept started, but it goes back to Geoff Emerick (and Joe Meek). Since this is a gear site I just gotta say I LOVE how the cymbals go “GWOOOOOOOSSSSHHHH” from the compressor when Ringo hits a crash A lot of that is the cymbal design of the time. Thicker brass at the edges, raw finish and heavy machining grooves. Modern cymbals are designed with a very different profile. The older cymbals don't sound all that great with modern recording equipment and you need that band-limited slowness in old tube gear to get the swooosh or else you get the bonk sound. The cymbal profile contributes for sure, but more of that sound on Revolver and other Beatle tracks is COMPRESSION.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 6, 2021 9:42:19 GMT -6
Respectfully disagree. 50s-60s Zildjian cymbals sound incredible with the “modern” recording equipment I use. I’m not a fan of most modern cymbals I’ve heard. Well that says it all. I don't like the old cymbals and in think modern cymbals sound way better, lol. Oh oh cymbal wars: I’m making popcorn and settling in !
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2021 9:51:05 GMT -6
Yeah, I mean. Bands are like that. Little annoyances turn into deeply worn grudges after years and years of grinding it out on stages and in studios. They're just complicated entities, bands. Layers upon layers of power structures and relationship dynamics all in service of something completely subjective, aesthetic and fleeting. For me, it's not that any criticism of Ringo is unfair, it's that most criticism of Ringo misses the point. It's usually technical criticism, that he doesn't have the big bombastic chops of a John Bonham or whatever. I think the Beatles would sound utterly ridiculous with a John Bonham. For the same reason, I think it would be silly to criticize a good metal drummer for not having 'feel' or 'personality' to their playing. They're not supposed to have 'feel', they're supposed to be a ruthless machine, that's the ethos! Members of his own band trying to get him to play something differently is an entirely separate thing from Guitar Center bros going 'Dude Ringo suuucks!' It's the latter category that I direct my criticism to. Ringo and Lars take the most shit but their bands wouldn’t have been nearly as creative without them. Guys hate on them and then praise drummers who can’t hit consistently for a full verse or where the engineer and mixer “played the drums” and live, the band doesn’t finish the songs at the same time with the rhythm guitarist and bassist pretty much totally ignoring the drummer.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2021 9:53:49 GMT -6
Older lighter cymbals rule. Lighter Zildjian A and K darks. They let you use more overheads. Those into a darker mic, not your typical way too bright modern condenser, are so good.
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Post by donr on Mar 6, 2021 11:18:59 GMT -6
Purdie says, afaik, that he played a session with Beatles tracks, in NY I think. Probably not with George Martin, and probably not heard by anyone. I met Bernard once, on a NJ shore variety show, pleasant fellow and great drummer. I think he's walked back his original comments a bit.
Ragan, I love your take on the QJ interview. I'm sorta curious to read it, but thanks to you, I don't have to.
As talented as they all are, the Beatles were a sum of their parts, including George Martin. They wouldn't have made Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper etc. with Phil Spector. As a young consumer at the time, the Beatles had an amazing run, it was fun waiting for the next gem to drop.
Ringo would crash the ride cymbal sometimes, which is a sound I've always dug, and may be the sound we're remembering. Part of Ringo's charm is his classic kit without a zillion drums and cymbals.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 7, 2021 3:21:42 GMT -6
^^This^^ A large part of Ringo’s appeal was the less is more approach of working with a traditional smaller kit, and being musically and sonically innovative, can anyone say tea towel ?
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Post by donr on Mar 7, 2021 22:11:38 GMT -6
^^This^^ A large part of Ringo’s appeal was the less is more approach of working with a traditional smaller kit, and being musically and sonically innovative, can anyone say tea towel ? The tea towel was a move, although I personally tired of that sound quickly. My fav Ringo snare is as heard on Revolver and Sgt. Pepper. You never really heard Ringo’s kick until the Giles Martin remixes a few years ago. John Bonham also played a traditional small kit. I’d describe the Beatles’ arrangements as thoughtful. Everyone’s parts made the song sound good. No gratuitous layering, no grandstanding, no dead wood.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 7, 2021 23:28:48 GMT -6
I recall reading that whoever had written a new song would play it for the band and George Martin and then they would talk about it and work out a head arrangement and then start playing the song with that arrangement as a starting point: always thought it would be pretty magical to hear those very first versions of the song: direct from the writer and then the band.
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Post by ragan on Mar 7, 2021 23:52:56 GMT -6
I've always loved the tracks on the (exhaustive) Beatles Anthology releases where they're fleshing things out, where you can hear all sorts of arrangements at various stages of polish/un-polish. It's clear that they messed with arrangement and instrumentation a lot. More than any band I was ever in. Part of that comes from a more or less endless budget, of course, but it's clear that they really experimented with songs before settling into the versions that made the records (and subsequently became burned into all of our psyches). I think that is really cool.
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Post by lando on Mar 8, 2021 5:47:46 GMT -6
IMO The Beatles are still underrated. That is crazy but also very true.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 8, 2021 6:19:43 GMT -6
IMO The Beatles are still underrated.
I don't think, so they had a famous fan in the field of classical conducting / composing. Even though if Bernstein was very well-educated in the world of Jazz.... anyway he heard the value of the music of the Beatles.
I think the Beatles are timeless and their music will be heard a thousand years from now. When we talk popular music, the Beatles have to be mentioned even if their producer was well-educated in classical composing, and he helped a lot. They adopted extremely fast concepts like secondary dominants or dominants substitutions.
The Beatles had the ability to hold back when they had no idea, no expertise in writing a String Arrangement. This is something very different compared to today, the digital age.
I know a producer who was in court because the artist thought he can do everything, including the music video etc. For sure this ended in a catastrophic mixture because no one is great at everything. The Beatles knew at what they were good at, and were letting do the rest by others.
This ability is IMO one big part of their worldwide success.
Springsteen and Taylor are two artists which are very good at this too. You can't be great in everything, and you need to let others shine.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 8, 2021 19:07:01 GMT -6
Uhh.. FYI, Bernard Purdie was totally FOS about that. He worked with a friend of mine for many years and was quite prone to bullshit, coked out most of the time.. He may have gotten a call about something or maybe sat in on one track somehow way early on, but not one song of The Beatles that was released had him on it, not ever.
A drummer can be amazing and still not play for the song. Ringo was by far the most creative drummer ever in a pop song context. So many songs had beats and parts that no normal drummer would have thought of, no less played so musically. There's a kind of swing some very special drummers have, and the majority of drummers don't have it. Without Ringo, no Beatles, just another pretty good band.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Mar 9, 2021 11:01:55 GMT -6
The same is true of his Motown claims.
In our case, the publishing division would cut custom demos tailored to the artists they wanted to pitch to. We did this in both New York and Los Angeles. I suspect Dick James Music may have done the same with a few Beatles songs.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 9, 2021 17:01:28 GMT -6
The same is true of his Motown claims. In our case, the publishing division would cut custom demos tailored to the artists they wanted to pitch to. We did this in both New York and Los Angeles. I suspect Dick James Music may have done the same with a few Beatles songs. This is interesting. Is this a practice that is still in place today? Seems like quite an investment.
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Post by chessparov on Mar 9, 2021 19:07:23 GMT -6
Uhh.. FYI, Bernard Purdie was totally FOS about that. He worked with a friend of mine for many years and was quite prone to bullshit, coked out most of the time.. He may have gotten a call about something or maybe sat in on one track somehow way early on, but not one song of The Beatles that was released had him on it, not ever. A drummer can be amazing and still not play for the song. Ringo was by far the most creative drummer ever in a pop song context. So many songs had beats and parts that no normal drummer would have thought of, no less played so musically. There's a kind of swing some very special drummers have, and the majority of drummers don't have it. Without Ringo, no Beatles, just another pretty good band. Agree on all key points MJB. Yet... IMHO they'd still be an all time great band, just not "quite" as great. Chris
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Post by drumsound on Mar 10, 2021 12:27:23 GMT -6
Uhh.. FYI, Bernard Purdie was totally FOS about that. He worked with a friend of mine for many years and was quite prone to bullshit, coked out most of the time.. He may have gotten a call about something or maybe sat in on one track somehow way early on, but not one song of The Beatles that was released had him on it, not ever. A drummer can be amazing and still not play for the song. Ringo was by far the most creative drummer ever in a pop song context. So many songs had beats and parts that no normal drummer would have thought of, no less played so musically. There's a kind of swing some very special drummers have, and the majority of drummers don't have it. Without Ringo, no Beatles, just another pretty good band. That's the weird thing about Purdie. The guy's freaking great, and has SOLID certifiable credits and doesn't need to bullshit about what he's played on, but still does. I don't understand that, at all.
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Post by sagefields on Mar 10, 2021 14:38:00 GMT -6
In 1964 Atco re-released "My Bonnie" and "Ain't She Sweet," which the Beatles had recorded in Hamburg with Tony Sheridan in 1961. Atco had new drumming overdubbed on the tracks to improve the record, and it's speculated that Bernard Purdie was the drummer who did the overdubs. This might be the source for Purdie's memory and claim that he was called in to improve some Beatles drumming. Of course, he would have been replacing Pete Best, not Ringo.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 10, 2021 15:49:14 GMT -6
Thanks sagefields, that makes sense. I think Purdie's statement just got away from him. He probably bragged about it, adding a little more to the story because of ego, never thinking he'd have to continue with the exaggeration or admit he was FOS. He was a great drummer, but he got more attention because of his Beatle's statements than he'd have gotten otherwise.
Oh, welcome to the forum!
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Post by lpedrum on Mar 10, 2021 15:55:30 GMT -6
The reality is that all of the Beatles' instrumental abilities have been criticized by other musicians. I have friends that still think George was a lightweight guitarist. The myth that Ringo was average and lucky still abounds (even here on this thread), and most musicians have no clue that John was a great rhythm guitarist. The fact is they all had incredibly good time, feel and musicality. None of them had any desire to be virtuosic or to hole up for months learning Freddie King solos like Clapton. They wanted to be a great singing group, and in doing so they changed musical history. It's sad when other musicians try to find the flaw in genius.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 10, 2021 15:57:01 GMT -6
Doesn't seem like a crazy person at all.
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