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Post by donr on Mar 3, 2021 23:40:57 GMT -6
Is anyone aware of a plugin that truly does the classic two machine tape flanging from the day? It seem to me with digital look ahead and latency compensation, that process could be emulated as if it were done the traditonal way. If it exists, I haven't heard it yet. Real tape flanging had that exquisite phase cancellation thing that made the audio sound "inside out" at the zero cross point.
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Post by ragan on Mar 3, 2021 23:55:11 GMT -6
Is anyone aware of a plugin that truly does the classic two machine tape flanging from the day? It seem to me with digital look ahead and latency compensation, that process could be emulated as if it were done the traditonal way. If it exists, I haven't heard it yet. Real tape flanging had that exquisite phase cancellation thing that made the audio sound "inside out" at the zero cross point. My favorite paid option: www.softube.com/fixfdMy favorite free option: www.meldaproduction.com/MFlangerI think either of them do it pretty well, though I admit to feeling some sonic jealousy when I hear it on the classic tracks. Could just be the people making those records were better at implementing it than I am. Well, I mean, I know they were better at it, but it could be that that's the real material difference and not that plugins are inherently inferior. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 3, 2021 23:56:48 GMT -6
Is anyone aware of a plugin that truly does the classic two machine tape flanging from the day? It seem to me with digital look ahead and latency compensation, that process could be emulated as if it were done the traditonal way. If it exists, I haven't heard it yet. Real tape flanging had that exquisite phase cancellation thing that made the audio sound "inside out" at the zero cross point. How's the eventide? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 0:06:35 GMT -6
Is anyone aware of a plugin that truly does the classic two machine tape flanging from the day? It seem to me with digital look ahead and latency compensation, that process could be emulated as if it were done the traditonal way. If it exists, I haven't heard it yet. Real tape flanging had that exquisite phase cancellation thing that made the audio sound "inside out" at the zero cross point. U-he Satin's flange mode is exactly what you're looking for including the speed up by delaying the first tape machine. Check out the flange section of the manual uhedownloads-heckmannaudiogmb.netdna-ssl.com/manuals/plugins/satin/Satin-user-guide.pdf |
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Post by ragan on Mar 4, 2021 0:09:22 GMT -6
And since I always relish the chance to bring up Jeff Lynne, the little breakdown in "Evil Woman" (though not my favorite ELO track) is one of my favorite flange moments.
At 2:40 here in the original:
He re-recorded a bunch of his hits in 2012 because he says he went back and listened to them and remembered them sounding better and thought 'I can do them better'. I would normally roll my eyes hard and think that's such a stupid idea, both because I think the originals sound awesome and because...who re-records their hits? Let that shit be! However, I think they sound awesome and I spin the 2012 redos more than the originals. But then I'm a pretty dorky Jeff Lynne fanboi so...grain of salt. Anyway, same moment at 2:42 in the redo:
At first when I heard it, I thought 'he grabbed that from the original and just edited it in there'. But they do actually sound different. I wonder what he used in 2012? Certainly he can afford a couple of tape machines but I wonder if they actually did it that way or if they used something like a plugin. Sounds bitchin' either way.
I saw ELO two summers ago and that flange moment was perfect live. Listening here though I think it's just sampled from the 2012 redo and they just play that sample live. Here's a live version from Wembley in 2017. Flange breakdown at 2:47:
Thank you for attending this edition of Unsolicited ELO Flange Forensics.
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Post by donr on Mar 4, 2021 0:10:38 GMT -6
Is anyone aware of a plugin that truly does the classic two machine tape flanging from the day? It seem to me with digital look ahead and latency compensation, that process could be emulated as if it were done the traditonal way. If it exists, I haven't heard it yet. Real tape flanging had that exquisite phase cancellation thing that made the audio sound "inside out" at the zero cross point. How's the eventide? The Eventide hardware was the first studio digital emulation of flanging, it could delay audio relative to the input, as could all the effects that followed, but it couldn't cross real time and anticipate the reference audio like a VSO'd tape machine with a copied track could. I imagine the analog electronics and the tape had something to do with the sound of "real" tape flanging. |
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Post by superwack on Mar 4, 2021 0:28:59 GMT -6
Is anyone aware of a plugin that truly does the classic two machine tape flanging from the day? It seem to me with digital look ahead and latency compensation, that process could be emulated as if it were done the traditonal way. If it exists, I haven't heard it yet. Real tape flanging had that exquisite phase cancellation thing that made the audio sound "inside out" at the zero cross point. Have you tried Waves ADT? I think the idea was to recreate the effects (ADT, Flange, Phase) using two tape machines like they did at Abbey Road. TBH I haven't tried (and I don't love a lot of Waves plugins) but here's a video review of it and around 10:20 they choose the guitar flange preset - may be what you are looking for? |
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Post by ragan on Mar 4, 2021 0:36:01 GMT -6
I had/have Reel ADT and it is pretty cool. I don't remember being able to get the deep jetstream tape kinda thing with it but maybe you can. It expired or whatever and I can't really be arsed to deal with WUP anymore so I don't have it on my new machine.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 4, 2021 1:44:48 GMT -6
^^this^^, adt is good, but same as Ragan for me.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 4, 2021 5:52:11 GMT -6
I had/have Reel ADT and it is pretty cool. I don't remember being able to get the deep jetstream tape kinda thing with it but maybe you can. It expired or whatever and I can't really be arsed to deal with WUP anymore so I don't have it on my new machine.
Nobody looks through the WUP system anymore...
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Post by Guitar on Mar 4, 2021 6:31:28 GMT -6
Cool thread. I thought I had my flanging covered with ADA, Eventide, and so on but now I realize I don't! That is such a classic sound. If u-He Satin has a mode for that, I will check it out. u-He is a connoisseur's brand, IMO, love their synthesizers.
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Post by nick8801 on Mar 4, 2021 6:32:10 GMT -6
I just use UAD ampex and automate the delay time up and down relative to the track I’m sending into it. You could pull up two instances and automate both. I feel like using an actual tape plug gets you some of the tape character as well as the time delays.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 4, 2021 6:36:15 GMT -6
I just use UAD ampex and automate the delay time up and down relative to the track I’m sending into it. You could pull up two instances and automate both. I feel like using an actual tape plug gets you some of the tape character as well as the time delays. I think you just solved the puzzle, I'll have to try that later. |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 4, 2021 8:35:15 GMT -6
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Post by drumsound on Mar 4, 2021 9:02:09 GMT -6
FX flanger is cool, but I still use the Kurzweil Mangler (Ned Flangers preset RULES) or Eventide more often. This video of TLA at around 3:30 gets into a very cool getting into using a similar to tape flanging, automateable, and perfect as needed.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 4, 2021 11:27:15 GMT -6
Really nice, thanks. Just slap a couple tape sims on there and maybe it will sound right.
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Post by ragan on Mar 4, 2021 12:08:30 GMT -6
FX flanger is cool, but I still use the Kurzweil Mangler (Ned Flangers preset RULES) or Eventide more often. This video of TLA at around 3:30 gets into a very cool getting into using a similar to tape flanging, automateable, and perfect as needed. That's cool! Thanks for sharing. I actually have that plugin (all the Eventide stuff actually, thanks to the BF snafu) but had never checked it out. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 4, 2021 12:36:26 GMT -6
FX flanger is cool, but I still use the Kurzweil Mangler (Ned Flangers preset RULES) or Eventide more often. This video of TLA at around 3:30 gets into a very cool getting into using a similar to tape flanging, automateable, and perfect as needed. That's cool! Thanks for sharing. I actually have that plugin (all the Eventide stuff actually, thanks to the BF snafu) but had never checked it out. Damn. I'm working on an EP that this will be perfect for. Love it. |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 4, 2021 12:36:36 GMT -6
You can run off a cassette copy, fly it back in, and you'll have flanging all over the place. Slide the tracks around to put it where you want.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 4, 2021 12:48:12 GMT -6
That's cool! Thanks for sharing. I actually have that plugin (all the Eventide stuff actually, thanks to the BF snafu) but had never checked it out. They want a hundred bucks for that damn plugin. Don't like that price at all. Man, I'm jealous you scored that BF deal! Looks like I'll grab the demo now and maybe buy the suite on BF next year... |
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Post by ragan on Mar 4, 2021 13:05:55 GMT -6
That's cool! Thanks for sharing. I actually have that plugin (all the Eventide stuff actually, thanks to the BF snafu) but had never checked it out. They want a hundred bucks for that damn plugin. Don't like that price at all. Man, I'm jealous you scored that BF deal! Looks like I'll grab the demo now and maybe buy the suite on BF next year... Yeah, that was nuts. Couple hour window. I gather that they run pretty nice bundle sales every year though, FWIW. I haven't delved into the whole suite that much but the couple plugs I've messed with are very cool. |
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Post by Guitar on Mar 4, 2021 13:30:21 GMT -6
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 4, 2021 14:18:18 GMT -6
Looks like it only delays forward, not in both directions. I guess there is one built into pt that does the same. The eventide has the advantage of both ways. I wonder if it's possible to automate the sound radix auto align to work too. |
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Post by donr on Mar 4, 2021 16:22:36 GMT -6
Cool info! From Tom's video, it looks like you need to have the second audio start ahead of the reference audio to get the classic flange sound. After it crosses and lags the main audio, it doesn't sound quite as cool.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 4, 2021 16:30:14 GMT -6
Looks like it only delays forward, not in both directions. I guess there is one built into pt that does the same. The eventide has the advantage of both ways. I wonder if it's possible to automate the sound radix auto align to work too. I have a workaround in my head for you. Shift your "flange track" back by 2 ms or whatever you need. Now set your one way time align plugin to 2 ms. Now you have -2 ms on your time fader. Worth a shot, using what you have for free. |
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