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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 26, 2021 22:01:39 GMT -6
Is it just me, or does TD Nova sound better?
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 26, 2021 22:19:26 GMT -6
I honestly have never been THAT impressed with the tools I've used from Fab Filter sound wise. Never super super clear. Seems to every so slightly muddy things up. The limiter especially. The EQ is similar. It's better but..I think I still prefer to use EQuality from DMG. It's not that they aren't good or anything. Just not the best sounding I think. Still far better than others out there mind you. Splitting hairs here.
Limitless will be the next EQ I try.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 22:21:45 GMT -6
I had the same epiphany recently and use Nova GE as my dynamic equalizer and PSP MasterQ2 as my parametric. I don’t need the pretty graphics to mislead me.
Nova is cleaner. There’s no truncation to 32-bit float when communicating with the daw and much better dynamics on Insane.
The entire TDR GE suite just gets stuff done.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 26, 2021 23:03:10 GMT -6
I had the same epiphany recently and use Nova GE as my dynamic equalizer and PSP MasterQ2 as my parametric. I don’t need the pretty graphics to mislead me. Nova is cleaner. There’s no truncation to 32-bit float when communicating with the daw and much better dynamics on Insane. The entire TDR GE suite just gets stuff done. Seems like TDR is just a little smoother...although, it's clunky...but I don't have the GE. Is it better? I also swear PQ3 is adding a slight, slight harshness even at linear. Now - I'm sure someone could prove me wrong and since I've posted this, I'm less convinced. Maybe it's the addition of the attack time that's making me prefer TDR. Now, if Pro Q could do what Surfer EQ does with more points, it would be ballgame. |
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Post by christopher on Jan 27, 2021 1:46:10 GMT -6
I don’t think you are imagining Q3 artifacts. It’s not that bad, it’s incredible but it has to take a trip through a magnetic field to zap that stuff where I’m at.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 27, 2021 2:45:56 GMT -6
Flab filter ....
Yes I hear the same thing if I don’t have enough sample delay buffer. Especially in Ableton Live. It’s not dark per say but it def isn’t transparent. I use it on almost every track 😳 & love it 😊 ( Pro Q2 )
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Post by Guitar on Jan 27, 2021 9:01:45 GMT -6
Q3 was the one to beat for a long time, but there are many other digital parametric EQ's that have challenged it by now. I always thought it had a tiny bit of "tone" to it, too.
I think I'm going to buy Crave EQ next week, svart mentioned it, it's made by this sort of digital genius for lack of a better term, a specialist. I think it doesn't use oversampling at all but somehow it still ends up being one of the cleanest ones out there. I just like the fact that it works similar to Pro Q3 and it's only $70. It was very smooth in the top end on my demo testing, smoother than the IK EQual I've been using. It also has some "custom" features like you can really dial in the spectrum graph to your liking.
DMG Equilibrium is simply too expensive for me personally. Same with MAAT.
Softube just released a minimum phase 7 band with with the Weiss name on it, intro price was $150. But it doesn't do linear phase, analog phase, or those modes.
Some people still mention the Massenberg MDWEQ5, that looks a bit limited though in 2021. UAD AMS Neve DFC looks interesting and that's a whole channel strip, not just EQ.
There are some Toneboosters ones out that aren't terribly expensive. Equalizer 4, 39 Euros, does dynamic EQ.
The Empirical Labs Big FreQ is out, I haven't used it, I've heard people call it bright and punchy. I like Arousor so I'm curious about it.
I could likely just use the PSP Master Q2 I have but I'm so attracted to that Pro Q graph look it's enough to get me probably spending money on Crave EQ.
Regarding the Tokyo Dawn stuff I've certainly noticed it sounds good. The interface troubles me a little bit, I wish there were some alternate skins for it. I think that's what throws me off with those, not the sound.
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Post by superwack on Jan 27, 2021 9:41:07 GMT -6
I always preferred DMG to FF Pro Q but went with FF because I kept getting bogged down in the options (although this was years ago and I think I’d do better now)
I’ve been demoing Crave for a couple of weeks and, to me, it absolutely sounds better than FF which makes it more fun/inspiring to work with.
The only thing holding me back from purchasing it is the “how many digital EQs do I need thing” but I tried to match the curves and boosts using Plugin Doctor and got them close (Crave seems to only have limited compatibility with Plugin Doctor) and yet i can 100% pick out Crave and always prefer it. I will definitely buy it soon.
I know it’s not actually doing this but Crave sort of I reminds me of using M/S to duck the center ever so slightly while boosting the HF in the sides
My only question now is Analog v Transparent mode? They both sound amazing to me
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 27, 2021 19:23:57 GMT -6
]The entire TDR GE suite just gets stuff done. Had no time to try the M. Compressor in action but I watched the demo video for a few minutes and I instantly had a big smile on my face. The free version alone is insane to be free of charge. If I survive the third corona wave I will buy their everything bundle just to support the great work.... |
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Post by ragan on Feb 9, 2021 13:46:25 GMT -6
Is it just me, or does TD Nova sound better? I was thinking about this thread the last couple of weeks and started believing I was hearing something odd in Pro-Q3 (the power of suggestion is really something...) so I downloaded TDR Nova and started comparing and thought, "oh no, I DO like the Nova better" and started scheming that I needed to go replace all the Pro-Q3 boosts and cuts on the record I just finished with Nova. I thought I should at least try an example first, so I just replaced a couple critical instances of Pro-Q3 on a mix (vocal, drum bus, mixbus, master) with Nova and then bounced one with Nova, one with Pro-Q3. Listened blind and thought, "hmm, these are close but there is a difference and I definitely do prefer one of them". The one I liked less just sounded a tad cloudier. The one I liked more sounded clearer, cleaner. Not a big difference at all, but there. Anyway, I was picking the Pro-Q3 version as my favorite. So I'll be sticking with it. Nova is cool though, especially for free! I like the dynamics on it a lot so I'll probably use it for that. It'll have to beat Pro-MB of course but I'll compare them when I get some time. |
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Post by Guitar on Feb 9, 2021 14:36:19 GMT -6
The one I'm really excited about now is Toneboosters EQ4. I find it to be somewhat more transparent than Pro Q3 in a direct A/B/C test. But Pro Q3 is one of the best ones out there, I still think that.
I stopped thinking about Crave EQ. It's a tiny bit slow or middy souding compared to those other two. It's the most colored of the three.
They all have these subtle tonal qualities that can push you one way or the other.
On an acoustic guitar, ToneBoosters had the most depth to me, Pro Q3 had a slightly more closed, midrange color, very subtle. Some subtle but pleasing artifacts. It's possible that the Toneboosters is a tiny bit brighter, but I'll have to do some more controlled testing. So I'll be buying EQ4 soon, most likely. Also just used it on a master for someone else, for some correction (cuts.) Millennia NSEQ-2 plugin for a bit of color boosts.
It's almost a tossup between Pro Q3 and Toneboosters EQ4, I wish I could own both. Or do even more testing. One is a lot cheaper than the other though, and right up there with it, possibly even preferred according to some testing, on some sources. They both do dynamic EQ, mid side, and so on.
I've been using IK EQual which is good, and occasionally Reaper ReaEQ which is free, but I'm looking at the two I've been speaking of here because of extra features and easier workflow. Chasing the dream of the perfect parametric EQ plugin.
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Post by ragan on Feb 9, 2021 15:16:26 GMT -6
The one I'm really excited about now is Toneboosters EQ4. I find it to be somewhat more transparent than Pro Q3 in a direct A/B/C test. But Pro Q3 is one of the best ones out there, I still think that. I stopped thinking about Crave EQ. It's a tiny bit slow or middy souding compared to those other two. It's the most colored of the three. They all have these subtle tonal qualities that can push you one way or the other. On an acoustic guitar, ToneBoosters had the most depth to me, Pro Q3 had a slightly more closed, midrange color, very subtle. Some subtle but pleasing artifacts. It's possible that the Toneboosters is a tiny bit brighter, but I'll have to do some more controlled testing. So I'll be buying EQ4 soon, most likely. Also just used it on a master for someone else, for some correction (cuts.) Millennia NSEQ-2 plugin for a bit of color boosts. It's almost a tossup between Pro Q3 and Toneboosters EQ4, I wish I could own both. Or do even more testing. One is a lot cheaper than the other though, and right up there with it, possibly even preferred according to some testing, on some sources. They both do dynamic EQ, mid side, and so on. I've been using IK EQual which is good, and occasionally Reaper ReaEQ which is free, but I'm looking at the two I've been speaking of here because of extra features and easier workflow. Chasing the dream of the perfect parametric EQ plugin. Yeah, so many cool options these days. It’s really funny though because I had myself convinced that there may truly be something wrong with the Pro-Q I’ve used for so long. And that did actually affect what I heard (until I compared blind of course). BTW I also us (and love) that Millenia EQ on master fader. I missed it when I left UAD and was thrilled to get it back via PA. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 15:37:44 GMT -6
Is it just me, or does TD Nova sound better? I was thinking about this thread the last couple of weeks and started believing I was hearing something odd in Pro-Q3 (the power of suggestion is really something...) so I downloaded TDR Nova and started comparing and thought, "oh no, I DO like the Nova better" and started scheming that I needed to go replace all the Pro-Q3 boosts and cuts on the record I just finished with Nova. I thought I should at least try an example first, so I just replaced a couple critical instances of Pro-Q3 on a mix (vocal, drum bus, mixbus, master) with Nova and then bounced one with Nova, one with Pro-Q3. Listened blind and thought, "hmm, these are close but there is a difference and I definitely do prefer one of them". The one I liked less just sounded a tad cloudier. The one I liked more sounded clearer, cleaner. Not a big difference at all, but there. Anyway, I was picking the Pro-Q3 version as my favorite. So I'll be sticking with it. Nova is cool though, especially for free! I like the dynamics on it a lot so I'll probably use it for that. It'll have to beat Pro-MB of course but I'll compare them when I get some time. Well the filters are wholly different so you can’t just copy eq settings over. That’s a recipe for disaster. TDR also makes you pay for the narrower Surgical curves, the same as with Slick EQ GE’s most useful Japanese mode. docs.tokyodawn.net/nova-ge-manual/#Curve_ModesFabfilter truncates to 32 bit float upon export back to the daw (same as Pro Tools) and Nova GE’s dynamic sections are noticeably cleaner. |
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Post by Guitar on Feb 9, 2021 15:39:49 GMT -6
Yeah, so many cool options these days. It’s really funny though because I had myself convinced that there may truly be something wrong with the Pro-Q I’ve used for so long. And that did actually affect what I heard (until I compared blind of course). BTW I also us (and love) that Millenia EQ on master fader. I missed it when I left UAD and was thrilled to get it back via PA. That's interesting, yeah certainly. I've had to catch myself right on the edge of subjective bias vs. "can I actually hear this" while testing these, it's a thing. I think the fact that my choices went away from what I "wanted" going in shows some sort of objectivity, at least. And I did get a few nulls going, although that was not possible with more elaborate EQ curves. I was so SOLD on Crave EQ, after reading a lot about it for a few weeks. I was surprised when I truly dug into it that it wasn't my first choice at all. Just shows the value of experience over hype and reputation. I've been in this rabbit hole for three days now, along with my first solicited mastering project at the same time. Time to buy something and move ahead. I also think I proved to myself that I can hear the tiny "artifact" of Pro Q3 that I always thought was there, even though it's still one of the best ones regardless. It may not literally be perfect but it's the final sound that counts, of course. And everything we do in audio has an artifact, almost without exception. It's a part of good sound. Still not totally sure what I think about Linear Phase EQ, will have to do more testing on that vs. IIR/minimum phase. |
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Post by superwack on Feb 9, 2021 15:48:18 GMT -6
Is it just me, or does TD Nova sound better? I was thinking about this thread the last couple of weeks and started believing I was hearing something odd in Pro-Q3 (the power of suggestion is really something...) so I downloaded TDR Nova and started comparing and thought, "oh no, I DO like the Nova better" and started scheming that I needed to go replace all the Pro-Q3 boosts and cuts on the record I just finished with Nova. I thought I should at least try an example first, so I just replaced a couple critical instances of Pro-Q3 on a mix (vocal, drum bus, mixbus, master) with Nova and then bounced one with Nova, one with Pro-Q3. Listened blind and thought, "hmm, these are close but there is a difference and I definitely do prefer one of them". The one I liked less just sounded a tad cloudier. The one I liked more sounded clearer, cleaner. Not a big difference at all, but there. Anyway, I was picking the Pro-Q3 version as my favorite. So I'll be sticking with it. Nova is cool though, especially for free! I like the dynamics on it a lot so I'll probably use it for that. It'll have to beat Pro-MB of course but I'll compare them when I get some time. I've done a similar test and usually chose Pro-Q3 when replacing it with Nova however you have to keep in mind Nova is a parallel EQ so it's boost/cuts are not going to sound the same as they don't affect the other frequencies around them like FF does. |
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Post by superwack on Feb 9, 2021 15:53:53 GMT -6
Yeah, so many cool options these days. It’s really funny though because I had myself convinced that there may truly be something wrong with the Pro-Q I’ve used for so long. And that did actually affect what I heard (until I compared blind of course). BTW I also us (and love) that Millenia EQ on master fader. I missed it when I left UAD and was thrilled to get it back via PA. That's interesting, yeah certainly. I've had to catch myself right on the edge of subjective bias vs. "can I actually hear this" while testing these, it's a thing. I think the fact that my choices went away from what I "wanted" going in shows some sort of objectivity, at least. And I did get a few nulls going, although that was not possible with more elaborate EQ curves. I was so SOLD on Crave EQ, after reading a lot about it for a few weeks. I was surprised when I truly dug into it that it wasn't my first choice at all. Just shows the value of experience over hype and reputation. I've been in this rabbit hole for three days now, along with my first solicited mastering project at the same time. Time to buy something and move ahead. I also think I proved to myself that I can hear the tiny "artifact" of Pro Q3 that I always thought was there, even though it's still one of the best ones regardless. It may not literally be perfect but it's the final sound that counts, of course. And everything we do in audio has an artifact, almost without exception. It's a part of good sound. Still not totally sure what I think about Linear Phase EQ, will have to do more testing on that vs. IIR/minimum phase. Interesting, I've been demo'ing Crave vs. Fab-Filter and in blind tests, I 100% of the time choose Crave whether it's on Analog or Transparent mode (haven't messed with the digital mode at all) sucks to shell out the $ as I already own FF but I really think Crave might become the only EQ I use. Also I really like using Crave more than FF... it might be because I hate how the FF band controls float around and often cover another band which I think Crave 1 did but he changed it.  |
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Post by ragan on Feb 9, 2021 16:07:03 GMT -6
I was thinking about this thread the last couple of weeks and started believing I was hearing something odd in Pro-Q3 (the power of suggestion is really something...) so I downloaded TDR Nova and started comparing and thought, "oh no, I DO like the Nova better" and started scheming that I needed to go replace all the Pro-Q3 boosts and cuts on the record I just finished with Nova. I thought I should at least try an example first, so I just replaced a couple critical instances of Pro-Q3 on a mix (vocal, drum bus, mixbus, master) with Nova and then bounced one with Nova, one with Pro-Q3. Listened blind and thought, "hmm, these are close but there is a difference and I definitely do prefer one of them". The one I liked less just sounded a tad cloudier. The one I liked more sounded clearer, cleaner. Not a big difference at all, but there. Anyway, I was picking the Pro-Q3 version as my favorite. So I'll be sticking with it. Nova is cool though, especially for free! I like the dynamics on it a lot so I'll probably use it for that. It'll have to beat Pro-MB of course but I'll compare them when I get some time. Well the filters are wholly different so you can’t just copy eq settings over. That’s a recipe for disaster. TDR also makes you pay for the narrower Surgical curves, the same as with Slick EQ GE’s most useful Japanese mode. docs.tokyodawn.net/nova-ge-manual/#Curve_ModesFabfilter truncates to 32 bit float upon export back to the daw (same as Pro Tools) and Nova GE’s dynamic sections are noticeably cleaner. A recipe for disaster?? Dear me that does sound serious.  Unless I'm working on the DSP team, I don't actually care what's going on (or alleged to be going on) under the hood. I care about what happens to the sonics of the audio I run through the processor. For this test, the stereo image, the individual elements' places within that image and the separation and clarity of each element in relation to all the others is what I cared about. I want a change in frequency response at the lowest possible sonic cost. FF passed that test just a bit better than Nova to me. |
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Post by Guitar on Feb 9, 2021 16:08:39 GMT -6
That's interesting, yeah certainly. I've had to catch myself right on the edge of subjective bias vs. "can I actually hear this" while testing these, it's a thing. I think the fact that my choices went away from what I "wanted" going in shows some sort of objectivity, at least. And I did get a few nulls going, although that was not possible with more elaborate EQ curves. I was so SOLD on Crave EQ, after reading a lot about it for a few weeks. I was surprised when I truly dug into it that it wasn't my first choice at all. Just shows the value of experience over hype and reputation. I've been in this rabbit hole for three days now, along with my first solicited mastering project at the same time. Time to buy something and move ahead. I also think I proved to myself that I can hear the tiny "artifact" of Pro Q3 that I always thought was there, even though it's still one of the best ones regardless. It may not literally be perfect but it's the final sound that counts, of course. And everything we do in audio has an artifact, almost without exception. It's a part of good sound. Still not totally sure what I think about Linear Phase EQ, will have to do more testing on that vs. IIR/minimum phase. Interesting, I've been demo'ing Crave vs. Fab-Filter and in blind tests, I 100% of the time choose Crave whether it's on Analog or Transparent mode (haven't messed with the digital mode at all) sucks to shell out the $ as I already own FF but I really think Crave might become the only EQ I use. Also I really like using Crave more than FF... it might be because I hate how the FF band controls float around and often cover another band which I think Crave 1 did but he changed it. Yeah the Crave probably has my favorite interface, it's simple but it does everything you want. I wish the scale was more configurable, the size of the graph. Maybe it is and I just missed it. One thing that the Crave does really well over Fab Filter is stereo image. You can make a bunch of moves and the Fab shrinks a little, but the Crave stays nice and wide all the way. If you like that thicker sound it seems like Crave is a top pick, lots of people seem to love it. I'm driving to the ATM in just a minute to make a deposit to buy ToneBoosters, I'm convinced it's the one for me at this moment. Still surprised that it's the cheapest one. |
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Post by ragan on Feb 9, 2021 16:14:34 GMT -6
I'm going to check out Crave too. Why not drive myself a little more crazy with hairsplitting nonsense that has no impact on whether any of my music sounds good or not... |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Feb 9, 2021 16:34:16 GMT -6
I did a little bit of beta testing for the Crave plugin pre V1. The creator seems like a top guy and knows his stuff.
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Post by Guitar on Feb 9, 2021 16:43:07 GMT -6
I did a little bit of beta testing for the Crave plugin pre V1. The creator seems like a top guy and knows his stuff. The story on the ToneBoosters guy is kind of interesting too. He's similarly responsive to customers and has dozens of US Patents, published articles, chapters, and books to his name. These EQ/plugin people are on another level, haha. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 16:45:51 GMT -6
Well the filters are wholly different so you can’t just copy eq settings over. That’s a recipe for disaster. TDR also makes you pay for the narrower Surgical curves, the same as with Slick EQ GE’s most useful Japanese mode. docs.tokyodawn.net/nova-ge-manual/#Curve_ModesFabfilter truncates to 32 bit float upon export back to the daw (same as Pro Tools) and Nova GE’s dynamic sections are noticeably cleaner. A recipe for disaster?? Dear me that does sound serious. Unless I'm working on the DSP team, I don't actually care what's going on (or alleged to be going on) under the hood. I care about what happens to the sonics of the audio I run through the processor. For this test, the stereo image, the individual elements' places within that image and the separation and clarity of each element in relation to all the others is what I cared about. I want a change in frequency response at the lowest possible sonic cost. FF passed that test just a bit better than Nova in this case. The filters are different. You’re going to have unintended side effects copying over any eq. I don’t use Nova GE as anything but a dynamic EQ and which mode, musical or surgical, depends on what I am doing. I always use insane mode and have gravitated toward having the + mode non-linearities on for more mojo and unintended effects. I prefer to use Slick EQ GE in the green Japanese mode for most corrective work. For more surgical notching, the PSP MasterQ2, sometimes with low ringing options on and if they’re deep, I’ll hit the analog button to blur it a bit with harmonics. |
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Post by superwack on Feb 9, 2021 17:01:50 GMT -6
If it matters to people (It does to me as I'm a Pro Tools user) Keith at Crave answered a post of mine and says he's going to do a Pro Tools update sometime this year where it will have all the usual PT automation, will display the EQ Graph on the channels, etc. - pretty excited about that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 17:15:21 GMT -6
I did a little bit of beta testing for the Crave plugin pre V1. The creator seems like a top guy and knows his stuff. The story on the ToneBoosters guy is kind of interesting too. He's similarly responsive to customers and has dozens of US Patents, published articles, chapters, and books to his name. These EQ/plugin people are on another level, haha. Honestly they need to differentiate themselves more. They’re mostly safe and boring. They all have the same analog, Waves, or Fabfilter inspired guis and most of them aren’t trying to do anything new and out there. It’s always typical digital plugs and ersatzes of the same old classic gear. I want more weird and useful Sound Radix, Tokyo Dawn, and PSP type plugs. They need to model more esoteric old gear like Sound Toys, Goodhertz, and Fuse. We already have a hundred ersatz SSL whatever and 1176 that fail on the tone or dynamics behavior. Give me something that awes me like the first time you hear a good analog piece or totally cracked out digital like Inflator, Blockfish, Vulf, or Molot that makes you raise an eyebrow |
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Post by tkaitkai on Feb 9, 2021 19:17:15 GMT -6
I also go through periods where I start doubting Pro-Q, but I always end up concluding that whatever differences I thought I was hearing are either nonexistent or too minimal for me to care about.
I do think the free JS ReEQ in HQ mode (not the same thing as ReaEQ) sounds ever-so-slightly better, but Pro-Q's workflow is so ingrained in me at this point that the end result is usually better simply by virtue of how goddamn fast I can get to it.
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