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Post by dreamsambas on Sept 29, 2020 13:43:23 GMT -6
Wanna say my "old one" is from the 1980s. And it's great.
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Post by Quint on Sept 29, 2020 13:50:50 GMT -6
But how old is old enough? Very good question. When did they off-load production to China? I don't know. Did they? |
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Post by notneeson on Sept 29, 2020 14:06:47 GMT -6
I have a replacement kit for mine sitting on my desk. Need to get to that. In the interim, the mic is usable, I mean it’s better on my voice that my 421 (Which are great on some folks, IMHO). But, the capsule is not properly centered in the housing without the foam and you can hear/feel it move around slightly when putting it on a stand. I guess you can order replacement foam kits? I would assume so, since the RE20 Is still made. This also has me thinking about two things: 1. Does the RE15 mic have foam? 2. If so, where could you get a replacement kit? No, from what I have read, EV will take the mic on a flat repair fee but rather than fixing it they replace with a new one. Course, I read that at the purple place so... I bought my kit in ebay, actually. Seems like a good value vs. trying to source all the pieces myself. |
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Post by superwack on Sept 29, 2020 14:38:49 GMT -6
I sent my RE20 in a few years ago. It was probably from the mid-80's and had something rattling inside. They replaced the foam, fixed it and sent it back in a new case as the original had broken hinges. I did not get a new mic.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 14:39:27 GMT -6
The foam inside deteriorates after a while and then they don't work properly, so I would get a newer one if I were you. Yeah, but couldn't you just simply take the headbasket off, get rid of the deteriorated foam, and then put the headbasket back on? Yes, and if you're lucky enough to catch it before it disintegrates all over the capsule, you're in ok shape. But why would you want to set yourself up for that shit by buying an old one, when you can have the peace of mind of not having to deal with it for like a decade by buying a new one? I just don't think this is one of those mics where fetishizing vintage models makes any sense. It's just a dynamic mic, and I can attest to the fact that a brand new one will rule in all the applications they excel at. |
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Post by Michael O. on Sept 29, 2020 14:55:35 GMT -6
They are; they’re essentially a slightly better milled re20 body with silk where the metal variable-d grill-slits are on a 20. You basically just posted a shortlist of my favorite American dynamic mics, so I’d say if you dig those you’ll love the 668/667a. If you want the re20 style sound but with proximity effect (if that’s why you ask if it’s vari d) then the re38 is worth seeking out. Absurdly rare (I don’t think they were manufactured for long), and very high quality all around, but for some reason I like mine less now than when I first got it. Maybe that means it’s time to whip that thing out and experiment  I like the vari D specifically because there is no proximity effect. It makes placement so much easier and then, if you need more bass, that's what an eq is for. Also, I like vari D because the off axis response is so nice. I love the EV vari D mics on drums. I just looked up the asking price for the 667/668. Oof... I won't be buying one of those anytime soon. Whoa, I had to look it up- those prices are wild, like nearly km84 level. I use mine about as often as my 84’s, but buying a dynamic mic at those prices wouldn’t sit well with me either. I guess the electro-voice secret is out. I’ve luckily had a cache of re10’s, 15’s, and pretty much the entire lineup for a while now. They used to go for next to nothing like ten years ago, and the majority of mine were NOS from broadcasters “upgrading” their equipment. There may still be some stockpiles out there, maybe worth calling around. Variable D is one of my favorite mic technologies that I’d like to see more of. The only other manufacturer that I know of that ever utilized anything like it was AKG (the d19), but frankly, the two working examples I’ve ever heard were kind of underwhelming, especially given how hyped that mic’s reputation is. |
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Post by Quint on Sept 29, 2020 14:56:10 GMT -6
Yeah, but couldn't you just simply take the headbasket off, get rid of the deteriorated foam, and then put the headbasket back on? Yes, and if you're lucky enough to catch it before it disintegrates all over the capsule, you're in ok shape. But why would you want to set yourself up for that shit by buying an old one, when you can have the peace of mind of not having to deal with it for like a decade by buying a new one? I just don't think this is one of those mics where fetishizing vintage models makes any sense. It's just a dynamic mic, and I can attest to the fact that a brand new one will rule in all the applications they excel at. I don't necessarily disagree with you, unless John E is actually right about there being a difference between new and old. I personally have no idea. I just know I like my old EVs. I've never owned a new one. |
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 29, 2020 15:12:02 GMT -6
Yeah, but couldn't you just simply take the headbasket off, get rid of the deteriorated foam, and then put the headbasket back on? Yes, and if you're lucky enough to catch it before it disintegrates all over the capsule, you're in ok shape. But why would you want to set yourself up for that shit by buying an old one, when you can have the peace of mind of not having to deal with it for like a decade by buying a new one? I just don't think this is one of those mics where fetishizing vintage models makes any sense. It's just a dynamic mic, and I can attest to the fact that a brand new one will rule in all the applications they excel at. It's not a question of age, it's a question of who actually makes it. I don't know whether the new ones are Chinese, but most of the new EVs are, maybe all of them. |
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Post by ericn on Sept 29, 2020 15:16:15 GMT -6
Yes, and if you're lucky enough to catch it before it disintegrates all over the capsule, you're in ok shape. But why would you want to set yourself up for that shit by buying an old one, when you can have the peace of mind of not having to deal with it for like a decade by buying a new one? I just don't think this is one of those mics where fetishizing vintage models makes any sense. It's just a dynamic mic, and I can attest to the fact that a brand new one will rule in all the applications they excel at. It's not a question of age, it's a question of who actually makes it. I don't know whether the new ones are Chinese, but most of the new EVs are, maybe all of them. The problem here my friend while I don’t disagree that they might be made in China you keep repeating yourself, but with no proof. |
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 29, 2020 15:19:50 GMT -6
It's not a question of age, it's a question of who actually makes it. I don't know whether the new ones are Chinese, but most of the new EVs are, maybe all of them. The problem here my friend while I don’t disagree that they might be made in China you keep repeating yourself, but with no proof. Well, yes - but I do know that most of the new oners ARE chinese. If they're kept the RE mics in the USA they're the only ones. They don't advertise it, but if you look at the box it's there.
And I'm VERY WARY of "changes to improve production" because it invariably means "changes to make the product cheaper to produce" and there is ALWAYS some hit to quality.
Just go to a store that has one in stock and inspect the box.
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Post by EmRR on Sept 29, 2020 15:38:26 GMT -6
The foam inside deteriorates after a while and then they don't work properly, so I would get a newer one if I were you. Yeah, but couldn't you just simply take the headbasket off, get rid of the deteriorated foam, and then put the headbasket back on? Getting into an RE-20 is not simple or obvious job, and it can go badly wrong if you go a certain way. About a decade ago I got a new foam set from Telex, somewhat arcane process, and did the job. The old was on the way to a baby rattle and I probably just barely caught it in time, it was on the verge of crumbly goo. |
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Post by ericn on Sept 29, 2020 15:56:47 GMT -6
The problem here my friend while I don’t disagree that they might be made in China you keep repeating yourself, but with no proof. Well, yes - but I do know that most of the new oners ARE chinese. If they're kept the RE mics in the USA they're the only ones. They don't advertise it, but if you look at the box it's there.
And I'm VERY WARY of "changes to improve production" because it invariably means "changes to make the product cheaper to produce" and there is ALWAYS some hit to quality.
Just go to a store that has one in stock and inspect the box.
John, I get it, but at this point your simply going on rumor, now almost every product that has lasted over 50 years have some changes. Fact of life. But when a simple enquire to the manufacturer can confirm a fact, don’t we worry that maybe we should do our due diligence? I mean you get on somebody as comical as Tommy but yet in many ways do the same thing? Oh by the way one of us did take the 3min to enquire with EV and is waiting for a reply. It’s called getting the facts, not guessing the facts. |
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Post by jacobamerritt on Sept 29, 2020 16:19:08 GMT -6
It would be awesome if this thread didn't devolve into 'Good microphones are only made in 'Murica or wherever the brand was made first! Efficiency is a quality compromise! Rant rant rant! My opinion is empirical fact!' - Theres enough of those tangents elsewhere.
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Post by notneeson on Sept 29, 2020 18:37:05 GMT -6
I sent my RE20 in a few years ago. It was probably from the mid-80's and had something rattling inside. They replaced the foam, fixed it and sent it back in a new case as the original had broken hinges. I did not get a new mic. How much? |
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Post by superwack on Sept 29, 2020 19:00:50 GMT -6
I sent my RE20 in a few years ago. It was probably from the mid-80's and had something rattling inside. They replaced the foam, fixed it and sent it back in a new case as the original had broken hinges. I did not get a new mic. How much? It's been a few years but it's a flat fee and I want to say it was like $180-ish? Seemed kind of high but the mic was unusable and came back as good as new (in a new case) and I haven't had any issues since. I seem to recall that fee included return shipping too. |
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 29, 2020 20:45:14 GMT -6
Well, yes - but I do know that most of the new oners ARE chinese. If they're kept the RE mics in the USA they're the only ones. They don't advertise it, but if you look at the box it's there.
And I'm VERY WARY of "changes to improve production" because it invariably means "changes to make the product cheaper to produce" and there is ALWAYS some hit to quality.
Just go to a store that has one in stock and inspect the box.
John, I get it, but at this point your simply going on rumor, now almost every product that has lasted over 50 years have some changes. Fact of life. But when a simple enquire to the manufacturer can confirm a fact, don’t we worry that maybe we should do our due diligence? I mean you get on somebody as comical as Tommy but yet in many ways do the same thing? Oh by the way one of us did take the 3min to enquire with EV and is waiting for a reply. It’s called getting the facts, not guessing the facts. No it's not rumor - I have not heard anything about the matter from anyone or anything else.
It's pure (and admittedly imperfect) observation.
If anybody can corroborate OR disprove what I've said I would welcome it.
As I've said, I DO know that most of their mics are Chinese, but do NOT - to reiterate DO NOT- know about the RE20. And I would like to. Those mics that used to (but no longer) have a "8" or other designation in front of the number are DEFINITELY Chinese. I belive this probably applies to the 635, but am not totally sure. The RE series I DO NOT KNOW FOR CERTAIN.
OK?
I do believe that mics from any large scale maker - EV, Shure, Neumann, Sennheiser, whoever - that are claimed to be "upgraded" for production reasons are at least slightly downgraded. I know this for a fact about Shure, due to having worked on lots of them and can document the changes.
I'm not totally sure that EV will tell the truth, but I think/hope they will. However you need to make certain that the response isw from a person in a position to know, not just an "answer monkey".
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Post by ericn on Sept 29, 2020 20:53:17 GMT -6
John, I get it, but at this point your simply going on rumor, now almost every product that has lasted over 50 years have some changes. Fact of life. But when a simple enquire to the manufacturer can confirm a fact, don’t we worry that maybe we should do our due diligence? I mean you get on somebody as comical as Tommy but yet in many ways do the same thing? Oh by the way one of us did take the 3min to enquire with EV and is waiting for a reply. It’s called getting the facts, not guessing the facts. No it's not rumor - I have not heard anything about the matter from anyone or anything else.
It's pure (and admittedly imperfect) observation.
If anybody can sorroborate OR disprove what I've said I would welcome it.
So OK your just going off on the internet saying they must be made in China because they make other gear in China? John, I respect you I consider you a friend but good god your acting like 12 year old girl! I beg of you shut up! The grown ups went and did the adult thing they asked the source and are waiting for a reply! You are through your take on this disparaging a product based completely on speculation. Also just so you know more than one transducer manufacturer has found manufacturering in China equals far better QC, and lower reject rate. So unless you have proof please shut up! |
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 29, 2020 21:04:23 GMT -6
It's been a few years but it's a flat fee and I want to say it was like $180-ish? Seemed kind of high but the mic was unusable and came back as good as new (in a new case) and I haven't had any issues since. I seem to recall that fee included return shipping too. That may (or may not) have been before the move to China.
I DON'T KNOW.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 29, 2020 21:11:07 GMT -6
No it's not rumor - I have not heard anything about the matter from anyone or anything else.
It's pure (and admittedly imperfect) observation.
If anybody can corroborate OR disprove what I've said I would welcome it.
So OK your just going off on the internet saying they must be made in China because they make other gear in China? John, I respect you I consider you a friend but good god your acting like 12 year old girl! I beg of you shut up! The grown ups went and did the adult thing they asked the source and are waiting for a reply! You are through your take on this disparaging a product based completely on speculation. Also just so you know more than one transducer manufacturer has found manufacturering in China equals far better QC, and lower reject rate. So unless you have proof please shut up! I believe that you can get the repair parts and do it yourself to an older mic. I'd do that. SHOULD be a lot cheaper, anyway.
And maybe I'm old fashioned, but I don't use Chinese capsules.
And perhaps I'm overly patriotic (but not political) I'll still go for US (or Euro) made products over Chinese. Any further discussion should be via PM.
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Post by superwack on Sept 30, 2020 0:45:46 GMT -6
It's been a few years but it's a flat fee and I want to say it was like $180-ish? Seemed kind of high but the mic was unusable and came back as good as new (in a new case) and I haven't had any issues since. I seem to recall that fee included return shipping too. That may (or may not) have been before the move to China.
I DON'T KNOW.
I sent the mic to Minnesota and got it back from Minnesota. I did do some digging and I do believe you are at least partially correct. The cheapest of the cheap "E-V" condenser mics (The ND66 which I've never even heard of before this) are rebranded chinese mics as confirmed by this document on their website products.electrovoice.com/binary/COO_ND66_MICROPHONE_797-AUDIO.PDFI didn't go through every mic but It appears the classics like the RE50, 635... are still manufactured in the US products.electrovoice.com/binary/COO_635L_635L-B_RE50L_RE50LN-D-L_BOSCH.PDF As it's nearly/totally impossible to source 100% US made parts I wouldn't be surprised if even the "good" mics aren't globally sourced but that applies to just about everything today - it could also be true that some of their other products are made elsewhere. |
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Post by Ward on Sept 30, 2020 5:57:10 GMT -6
But how old is old enough? Very good question. When did they off-load production to China? {EDIT} Philosophical comment in general, not specifically about EV[/font] Although a multitude of 'reasons' (excuses) are given, it usually comes down to 'cost' (profits) being the deciding factor so that the bottom line can be marginally improved. The problem with that thinking is that jobs are shipped off-shore first and as this practice has taken hold, less and less people have the Yd needed for buying additional tools. It's an exercise in presidential debate, I mean lunacy... oops, mixed up my words there. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2020 9:20:04 GMT -6
Yes, and if you're lucky enough to catch it before it disintegrates all over the capsule, you're in ok shape. But why would you want to set yourself up for that shit by buying an old one, when you can have the peace of mind of not having to deal with it for like a decade by buying a new one? I just don't think this is one of those mics where fetishizing vintage models makes any sense. It's just a dynamic mic, and I can attest to the fact that a brand new one will rule in all the applications they excel at. I don't necessarily disagree with you, unless John E is actually right about there being a difference between new and old. I personally have no idea. I just know I like my old EVs. I've never owned a new one. There probably are mechanical differences, maybe a revision to make it more reliable, maybe there are surface mount components... Maybe the vintage ones are actually a lot better. I have no idea. The only way to find out is to find an old one and a new one and compare, but I bet if you lined up 3 old ones they would sound different from each other anyway. If a new one puts a smile on my face when I mic a bass cab with it, having no frame of reference as to what a vintage one sounds like... Does it matter? I just think defaulting to the "vintage is better" stance is a bottleneck of sorts. While it probably is true in a lot of cases, that assumption is also perpetuated by marketing campaigns and people (that you don't know) posting funny words like "creamy" and "warm" and "tight and punchy" and "through hole" and "America" on the internet. I just try to keep that in mind I guess. |
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Post by Quint on Sept 30, 2020 9:28:41 GMT -6
I don't necessarily disagree with you, unless John E is actually right about there being a difference between new and old. I personally have no idea. I just know I like my old EVs. I've never owned a new one. There probably are mechanical differences, maybe a revision to make it more reliable, maybe there are surface mount components... Maybe the vintage ones are actually a lot better. I have no idea. The only way to find out is to find an old one and a new one and compare, but I bet if you lined up 3 old ones they would sound different from each other anyway. If a new one puts a smile on my face when I mic a bass cab with it, having no frame of reference as to what a vintage one sounds like... Does it matter? I just think defaulting to the "vintage is better" stance is a bottleneck of sorts. While it probably is true in a lot of cases, that assumption is also perpetuated by marketing campaigns and people (that you don't know) posting funny words like "creamy" and "warm" and "tight and punchy" and "through hole" and "America" on the internet. I just try to keep that in mind I guess. Like I said. I don't necessarily disagree. But IF there is a reason that the older ones may be better, why buy a new one if you can find an older one in good shape AND it costs less than the new one? Seems like a no brainer to me. That being said, I feel like Dr. Grampstein threw the proverbial stick into the bicycle spokes without having all of the info... So I'm not at all convinced at this point that there is in fact any difference between new and old. We're not talking Neumann here where the vintage ones cost many times over the reissue. In the case of the RE20, you can routinely find old ones for less than what it would cost to buy a new one. Now if the new ones are in fact the same as the old ones, I probably would be willing to spend the extra $100 to buy a new one if it means that I won't have to deal with issues such as deteriorating foam, etc. I'll wait to see what Eric has to say after he hears back from EV. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2020 9:43:57 GMT -6
There probably are mechanical differences, maybe a revision to make it more reliable, maybe there are surface mount components... Maybe the vintage ones are actually a lot better. I have no idea. The only way to find out is to find an old one and a new one and compare, but I bet if you lined up 3 old ones they would sound different from each other anyway. If a new one puts a smile on my face when I mic a bass cab with it, having no frame of reference as to what a vintage one sounds like... Does it matter? I just think defaulting to the "vintage is better" stance is a bottleneck of sorts. While it probably is true in a lot of cases, that assumption is also perpetuated by marketing campaigns and people (that you don't know) posting funny words like "creamy" and "warm" and "tight and punchy" and "through hole" and "America" on the internet. I just try to keep that in mind I guess. Like I said. I don't necessarily disagree. But IF there is a reason that the older ones may be better, why buy a new one if you can find an older one in good shape AND it costs less than the new one? Seems like a no brainer to me. That being said, I feel like Dr. Grampstein threw the proverbial stick into the bicycle spokes without having all of the info... So I'm not at all convinced at this point that there is in fact any difference between new and old. We're not talking Neumann here where the vintage ones cost many times over the reissue. In the case of the RE20, you can routinely find old ones for less than what it would cost to buy a new one. Now if the new ones are in fact the same as the old ones, I probably would be willing to spend the extra $100 to buy a new one if it means that I won't have to deal with issues such as deteriorating foam, etc. I'll wait to see what Eric has to say after he hears back from EV. Well, you're talking about used mics now. Of course, buy a used model. I almost never buy anything brand new. That's nuts. I'm saying, I would avoid buying an old model. |
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Post by Quint on Sept 30, 2020 9:48:18 GMT -6
Like I said. I don't necessarily disagree. But IF there is a reason that the older ones may be better, why buy a new one if you can find an older one in good shape AND it costs less than the new one? Seems like a no brainer to me. That being said, I feel like Dr. Grampstein threw the proverbial stick into the bicycle spokes without having all of the info... So I'm not at all convinced at this point that there is in fact any difference between new and old. We're not talking Neumann here where the vintage ones cost many times over the reissue. In the case of the RE20, you can routinely find old ones for less than what it would cost to buy a new one. Now if the new ones are in fact the same as the old ones, I probably would be willing to spend the extra $100 to buy a new one if it means that I won't have to deal with issues such as deteriorating foam, etc. I'll wait to see what Eric has to say after he hears back from EV. Well, you're talking about used mics now. Of course, buy a used model. I almost never buy anything brand new. That's nuts. I'm saying, I would avoid buying an old model. I was talking about "used" and "old" interchangeably. An "old" one would, by definition, be "used" too. You can find "old" models for less cost than new too. Though we don't even know if "old" even means anything above and beyond what we already accept the term "used" to mean, in the context of an RE20. Even if the RE series was, after some date, made in China, new, "old", and "used" RE20s still might basically be all the same. There is currently no such market for "old" RE20s, where they cost more than ones made after year "x", which is what leads me to believe that Dr. Grampstein (Uncle Grumpstein?) is blowing smoke. But I would absolutely buy an "old" model if I felt it was better. Different strokes, and all that... |
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