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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 20, 2020 0:25:27 GMT -6
While on topic I looked this up.. 14 minutes, and lots of recent comments shows there’s a ton of interest in working this way. Not that it’s affordable, or easy to start with tracks this ready. Plus I’m sure he practiced the mix before filming. Still fun to watch someone who has their system down Love this dude. Fun to watch. |
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Post by keymod on Jul 20, 2020 3:09:31 GMT -6
Of course, working on that AWS wouldn't hurt anything..............................
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Post by Ward on Jul 20, 2020 5:54:08 GMT -6
In all honesty, a console can be fun and was a necessary burden for most of our lives . . . but reality: They were a nightmare too.
I've been really close to buying a Neve Genesys or SSL 948 for a long time, then reality pulls me back and I consider that I have had faithful service out of a Digidesign C|24 for 12 years now - with only a failed power supply once. And in reality (there's that word again) with 48 in and outs I can insert any analog gear I want into a chain for mixing but can also fully function with everything in the box in mixing.
Tracking wise, it's all direct signal chains anyhow and with the number of tracks virtually limitless, you don't have to group or submix until a final mix.
Now maybe I'll reconsider going to an Avid S3 or S6, but then again . . . it's Avid, and those people are kind of ugh, as creepy as a strip club.
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 20, 2020 6:16:03 GMT -6
In all honesty, a console can be fun and was a necessary burden for most of our lives . . . but reality: They were a nightmare too. I've been really close to buying a Neve Genesys or SSL 948 for a long time, then reality pulls me back and I consider that I have had faithful service out of a Digidesign C|24 for 12 years now - with only a failed power supply once. And in reality (there's that word again) with 48 in and outs I can insert any analog gear I want into a chain for mixing but can also fully function with everything in the box in mixing. Tracking wise, it's all direct signal chains anyhow and with the number of tracks virtually limitless, you don't have to group or submix until a final mix. Now maybe I'll reconsider going to an Avid S3 or S6, but then again . . . it's Avid, and those people are kind of ugh, as creepy as a strip club.
You think a modern console like the AWS 900 is a nightmare??? I freind of mine owns it and it runs without mayor bugs since a few years....
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 20, 2020 8:16:19 GMT -6
In all honesty, a console can be fun and was a necessary burden for most of our lives . . . but reality: They were a nightmare too. I've been really close to buying a Neve Genesys or SSL 948 for a long time, then reality pulls me back and I consider that I have had faithful service out of a Digidesign C|24 for 12 years now - with only a failed power supply once. And in reality (there's that word again) with 48 in and outs I can insert any analog gear I want into a chain for mixing but can also fully function with everything in the box in mixing. Tracking wise, it's all direct signal chains anyhow and with the number of tracks virtually limitless, you don't have to group or submix until a final mix. Now maybe I'll reconsider going to an Avid S3 or S6, but then again . . . it's Avid, and those people are kind of ugh, as creepy as a strip club.
You think a modern console like the AWS 900 is a nightmare??? I freind of mine owns it and it runs without mayor bugs since a few years....
Yes! Any console needs service in daily use at some point these modern midsize consoles will become nightmares. Add in automation and recall logic systems and they get even scarier! Got tech? A good tech is getting harder and harder to find! Anybody who has had an orphaned automation system will tell you the fun of keeping these things running smoothly down the line and how they are at the mercy of manufacturers who are at the mercy of chip makers. Sure for many of these beasts there are boutique companies that specialize in keeping them going, but for the likes of the SSL 4K there are many still in commercial studios that have budgeted to keep the board running. Find me 10 AWS owners who have a maintenance budget! Also keep in mind many of these boutique companies are really one guy, and most of these guys are not young! I would grab an API 1608 long before an AWS simply for the simplicity knowing I would be able to find support down the road! |
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Post by EmRR on Jul 20, 2020 8:32:37 GMT -6
Anybody who has had an orphaned automation system will tell you the fun of keeping these things running smoothly down the line and how they are at the mercy of manufacturers who are at the mercy of chip makers. Yeah, get a GML fader automation system fixed.......not. |
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 20, 2020 8:37:16 GMT -6
You think a modern console like the AWS 900 is a nightmare??? I freind of mine owns it and it runs without mayor bugs since a few years....
Yes! Any console needs service in daily use at some point these modern midsize consoles will become nightmares. Add in automation and recall logic systems and they get even scarier! Got tech? A good tech is getting harder and harder to find! Anybody who has had an orphaned automation system will tell you the fun of keeping these things running smoothly down the line and how they are at the mercy of manufacturers who are at the mercy of chip makers. Sure for many of these beasts there are boutique companies that specialize in keeping them going, but for the likes of the SSL 4K there are many still in commercial studios that have budgeted to keep the board running. Find me 10 AWS owners who have a maintenance budget! Also keep in mind many of these boutique companies are really one guy, and most of these guys are not young! I would grab an API 1608 long before an AWS simply for the simplicity knowing I would be able to find support down the road!
I understand this right if something goes south its not a nice expereince?
OK i stop dreaming.... When I saw the concept of the AWS I thought this is cool and nuts at the same time. It had that I want one too factor.....
Good to have people here which know the other side of the coin....
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 20, 2020 10:14:27 GMT -6
Anybody who has had an orphaned automation system will tell you the fun of keeping these things running smoothly down the line and how they are at the mercy of manufacturers who are at the mercy of chip makers. Yeah, get a GML fader automation system fixed.......not. I can’t think of a any of the 90’s after market fader systems that you can find any support for at this point. Speaking of fader automation systems I found myself looking at Malcom Tofts new system for some reason and got the chills when I saw he was using those dirt cheap open frame ALPs faders. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jul 20, 2020 15:48:26 GMT -6
I’ve worked on a bunch of SSL’s. From the J , K, AWS and Duality. All of them with perfectly functioning automation systems, the duality and aws with upgradable systems If you get an older one.
Only thing I’ve had to deal with are the chips that control the Stereo Cue send and the Dynamics section. Which are getting harder to find.
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Post by timcampbell on Jul 20, 2020 16:23:35 GMT -6
We have really gotten far afield. This thread wasn't really about buying a fully functioning SSL or Neve VR or any large board. It was about whether to buy this 5422 or an 8 to 10 channel mixer between 8000 -25000 dollars was worth it.
If I could buy a fully functioning SSL 4000g+ like one I worked on for many years for 25000 dollars today I might buy it, but I might not also when I think about that it's me that's going to pay the utility bills and maintenance to keep it running while figuring how to make it pay for itself and knowing that when I want to sell it the longer I wait the quicker the small group of buyers that might be interested in it shrinks by the day.
Many large console can't be turned off and require AC to keep them from burning up and if you really need a console there are rooms that will rent them by the hour/day.
So many people I know that used to work on beautiful consoles are glad to be working soley ITB or a small hybrid setup because they can actually eke out a small living.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 20, 2020 16:51:57 GMT -6
We have really gotten far afield. This thread wasn't really about buying a fully functioning SSL or Neve VR or any large board. It was about whether to buy this 5422 or an 8 to 10 channel mixer between 8000 -25000 dollars was worth it. If I could buy a fully functioning SSL 4000g+ like one I worked on for many years for 25000 dollars today I might buy it, but I might not also when I think about that it's me that's going to pay the utility bills and maintenance to keep it running while figuring how to make it pay for itself and knowing that when I want to sell it the longer I wait the quicker the small group of buyers that might be interested in it shrinks by the day. Many large console can't be turned off and require AC to keep them from burning up and if you really need a console there are rooms that will rent them by the hour/day. So many people I know that used to work on beautiful consoles are glad to be working soley ITB or a small hybrid setup because they can actually eke out a small living. Tim More and more I think we really need somebody to come up with something like the Tonelux format with 500 series spacing so that those looking for small format console can build and grow as they want. If we could get a couple of manufacturers to buy into it and have multiple flavors the audio world would be a better place. As far as your thoughts on wanting a 4K, remember your not the average producer / AE! While your not an SSL tech your skills in that arena are far above today’s AE’s! Hell we now exist in a world where I find myself being referred to as a “Tech” because I can solder, no how to problem solve, have a very, very basic understanding of circuits, can read and use Google! You my friend are way above me on the depth chart! |
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Post by Quint on Jul 20, 2020 17:03:36 GMT -6
We have really gotten far afield. This thread wasn't really about buying a fully functioning SSL or Neve VR or any large board. It was about whether to buy this 5422 or an 8 to 10 channel mixer between 8000 -25000 dollars was worth it. If I could buy a fully functioning SSL 4000g+ like one I worked on for many years for 25000 dollars today I might buy it, but I might not also when I think about that it's me that's going to pay the utility bills and maintenance to keep it running while figuring how to make it pay for itself and knowing that when I want to sell it the longer I wait the quicker the small group of buyers that might be interested in it shrinks by the day. Many large console can't be turned off and require AC to keep them from burning up and if you really need a console there are rooms that will rent them by the hour/day. So many people I know that used to work on beautiful consoles are glad to be working soley ITB or a small hybrid setup because they can actually eke out a small living. Tim More and more I think we really need somebody to come up with something like the Tonelux format with 500 series spacing so that those looking for small format console can build and grow as they want. If we could get a couple of manufacturers to buy into it and have multiple flavors the audio world would be a better place. As far as your thoughts on wanting a 4K, remember your not the average producer / AE! While your not an SSL tech your skills in that arena are far above today’s AE’s! Hell we now exist in a world where I find myself being referred to as a “Tech” because I can solder, no how to problem solve, have a very, very basic understanding of circuits, can read and use Google! You my friend are way above me on the depth chart! I think Looptrotter offers such a thing with their modular console, and in the price range some here have been talking about in this thread. Though, at this point, if I didn't already have a console, I think I would probably just go with a summing mixer that has at least four stereo busses and use a VCA automation system like CAPI offers with a DAW controller. The thing is that, these days, so many people already have a bunch of outboard preamps and eqs, so buying a console that also has a bunch of preamps and eqs can be a bit redundant. That is unless they're willing to sell a bunch of that stuff to pay for one type of eq/preamp in the console. The only thing most people still really require in a console, if they need/want one at all, are the summing, routing, and metering. |
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Post by timcampbell on Jul 20, 2020 17:17:57 GMT -6
Well I'm just a grumpy old man. I'll stop my rant hehe. I realize that there are a lot of younger guys here that still have the energy for that battle.
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Post by keymod on Jul 21, 2020 3:10:56 GMT -6
The Speck LiLo was a fantastic option for what we are talking about, however, it was quite expensive. If I didn't already have my APB Pro Desk 832 - which is a wonderful board - I would probably want to get an API Box 2 ( which maybe I will someday ) . FWIW, the APB Pro Rack House is also a great option. The Looptrotter boards are really nice, but they seem pretty expensive. Malcom Toft was offering something similar with his Ark board some years back.
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Post by Ward on Jul 21, 2020 7:24:28 GMT -6
Well I'm just a grumpy old man. I'll stop my rant hehe. I realize that there are a lot of younger guys here that still have the energy for that battle. you say, battle, I say 'exploratory talks'. Sometimes we have to go all around the circle in order to come back to the main point to ensure all avenues have been properly explored and we have considered all options. What do we really need? It varies but if someone could put everything from a C24 or S3 into an AWS24 or Genesys24 and give you all options, for $50K? I'd put it on the black card today. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 21, 2020 7:26:44 GMT -6
Well I'm just a grumpy old man. I'll stop my rant hehe. I realize that there are a lot of younger guys here that still have the energy for that battle. you say, battle, I say 'exploratory talks'. Sometimes we have to go all around the circle in order to come back to the main point to ensure all avenues have been properly explored and we have considered all options. What do we really need? It varies but if someone could put everything from a C24 or S3 into an AWS24 or Genesys24 and give you all options, for $50K? I'd put it on the black card today. Black Card we know who’s buying drinks if we ever have another NAMM show! |
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Post by Ward on Jul 21, 2020 8:02:11 GMT -6
you say, battle, I say 'exploratory talks'. Sometimes we have to go all around the circle in order to come back to the main point to ensure all avenues have been properly explored and we have considered all options. What do we really need? It varies but if someone could put everything from a C24 or S3 into an AWS24 or Genesys24 and give you all options, for $50K? I'd put it on the black card today. Black Card we know who’s buying drinks if we ever have another NAMM show! Fine. 3 rounds though, that's the limit. I have a 'financial adviser, nosey credit card statement reader'. |
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