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Post by ragan on Mar 5, 2020 10:28:28 GMT -6
That editing vid has me about sold. That's some next level efficiency. The ability to collapse the tracks and only see busses is pretty sick too. I have a 13" screen on my laptop, so it can get a little confusing once the tracks and busses build up. Yeah that vid significantly increased my interest in Luna. The handful of features they showed there tell me they're thinking about this in a really cool way. I can't stand Avid but generally like Pro Tools and haven't wanted to sink time into learning another DAW. Luna could be an interesting answer to that. No hardware inserts is a 100% deal breaker for me of course and I don't want to go from the Symphony back to Apollo sonically (though I haven't tried the current X Apollos) but if this thing blossoms I could see it becoming a viable option down the road.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 11:11:47 GMT -6
That editing vid has me about sold. That's some next level efficiency. The ability to collapse the tracks and only see busses is pretty sick too. I have a 13" screen on my laptop, so it can get a little confusing once the tracks and busses build up. Yeah that vid significantly increased my interest in Luna. The handful of features they showed there tell me they're thinking about this in a really cool way. I can't stand Avid but generally like Pro Tools and haven't wanted to sink time into learning another DAW. Luna could be an interesting answer to that. No hardware inserts is a 100% deal breaker for me of course and I don't want to go from the Symphony back to Apollo sonically (though I haven't tried the current X Apollos) but if this thing blossoms I could see it becoming a viable option down the road. Oh man, does it really not facilitate HW inserts!? That's definitely a no-go for me as well. I didn't even think of that. They should definitely address that.
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Post by ragan on Mar 5, 2020 11:20:40 GMT -6
Yeah that vid significantly increased my interest in Luna. The handful of features they showed there tell me they're thinking about this in a really cool way. I can't stand Avid but generally like Pro Tools and haven't wanted to sink time into learning another DAW. Luna could be an interesting answer to that. No hardware inserts is a 100% deal breaker for me of course and I don't want to go from the Symphony back to Apollo sonically (though I haven't tried the current X Apollos) but if this thing blossoms I could see it becoming a viable option down the road. Oh man, does it really not facilitate HW inserts!? That's definitely a no-go for me as well. I didn't even think of that. They should definitely address that. Last I heard (I think from UA rep on here) there was no HW insert capability. I don't want to spread something wrong, anyone confirm/correct me on that? It's probably in this thread. Yeah, complete no-go for me and frankly anyone else I know who uses a DAW. UA wants you in their ecosystem of course and their plugins are great and fun but let's not kid ourselves about ditching hardware completely.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 11:22:13 GMT -6
Oh man, does it really not facilitate HW inserts!? That's definitely a no-go for me as well. I didn't even think of that. They should definitely address that. Last I heard (I think from UA rep on here) there was no HW insert capability. I don't want to spread something wrong, anyone confirm/correct me on that? It's probably in this thread. Yeah, complete no-go for me and frankly anyone else I know who uses a DAW. UA wants you in their ecosystem of course and their plugins are great and fun but let's not kid ourselves about ditching hardware completely. cursory google search seems to confirm, but I did see a post on GS where the UA rep acknowledged the importance of HW inserts and it gives me the impression that future updates may address it.
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Post by ragan on Mar 5, 2020 11:25:00 GMT -6
Looks really cool! Not sure it will have all the things I have come to rely on in Cubase tho. Drew does it have? 1. Option for using Outboard Hardware as a Plugin Insert within the Mixer Section 2. If yes to (1) Ability to do Real-Time Bounce-in-place for Channels with Hardware Inserts 3. Tempo Map Detection? (I start tracks with Analog Drum Machines/Sequencers that aren't on a perfect bpm) Then I grid the project up after basic tracks are laid down 4. Software Controlled Speaker Switching with Different Room Curves on Each Speaker Set (I've come to rely on Sonarworks Room Curves for a couple different sets of Speakers) 5. Varispeed would be great (I actually use Logic X with Virtual Channels in parallel to Cubase to achieve this) Last thing; I have a Mackie MCU Pro, which I assume it probably will not support? :/ If SO, I'm IN. I dont really use MIDI so none of those things matter to me. Just Outboard Gear, UAD Plugins, Soundtoys/Waves/Goodhertz/Izotope/FabFilter p No hardware inserts in V1. No control surface support in V1 Same for the rest. It's a v1 product keep in mind. @sloweye Here it is. Just says for V1 though. I would assume they know what a non-starter it is for people to have no HW inserts so hopefully that would be a priority in subsequent versions.
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Post by brenta on Mar 5, 2020 11:52:37 GMT -6
I reckon it will really shake the tree if it's easy to use and much like tracking to tape in its functionality . My next gear change will probably revolve around a 16" MBP , some form of Apollo with Luna; tracking with my Prism Titan hooked via Adat into Apollo. The beautifully steadfast MH ULN 2 might have to take a well earned rest . Hopefully everything keeps running long enough to allow a well considered decision. Cheers ,Eoss I'm curious what would a DAW that "works like tape" feature and how would it work different from a normal DAW? Isn't that what RADAR is? A DAW that works like tape?
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 5, 2020 11:57:13 GMT -6
Sure and way, way more money !!
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Post by brenta on Mar 5, 2020 11:59:36 GMT -6
There are some key features that are missing that are going to prevent me from moving to LUNA immediately. EX: hardware inserts. From what I gather, UA is aware that they have a lot of missing features are working towards implementing them. Seems they made the decision to roll out the product now and add the features later, rather than wait a couple more years and roll out a more complete product. Makes sense to me that they want people to start using it now so they can get more user feedback, work out bugs, and prioritize how to move forward.
The thing that's going to prevent me from even trying it is I'm still on Sierra. If I upgrade my OS I will also need to upgrade my Pro Tools version and get WUPed by Waves. So ironically, in order to try UA's free product, I will need to shell out a ton of dough to two of UA's biggest competitors.
I can see myself eventually moving to LUNA in a couple years when I get a new computer and LUNA has matured.
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Post by bigbone on Mar 5, 2020 12:39:24 GMT -6
........... ...................
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Post by nobtwiddler on Mar 5, 2020 16:50:59 GMT -6
"Isn't that what RADAR is? A DAW that works like tape?" "Sure and way, way more money !! " But have you used, and or heard a Radar System? Not much can touch it's workflow, and sonics.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 5, 2020 17:12:26 GMT -6
No offense, wasn’t putting down Radar. If you have an apollo, Luna costs you nothing, if you appreciate its workflow great.
Radar’s immediacy of workflow sounds great, but as I mentioned it costs, what it costs.
I was also commenting on the comments of others, as far as I know, none of us here have demoed or used Luna, other than Drew, so we are just speculating about how immediate it is: we’ll see this spring ?
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Post by nobtwiddler on Mar 5, 2020 17:29:43 GMT -6
Haha... No offense taken, none at all. I was just stating how good the Radar sounds. I've owned many Radar systems since 96, and although limited in what it can do, they do sound markedly better than most of the top selling products listed in the forums. I get it trust me, I now have 3 x Radars. And 2 x Apollo x16's 1 x Apollo x8p 2 x Apollo Satellite (octo) 1 x Apollo x4 But since I purchased my first Radar II way back when, I have never cut basics on anything but a Radar! And will continue to do so, unless something else comes along to make me feel differently. Who knows, maybe "Luna"
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Post by tkaitkai on Mar 5, 2020 17:30:24 GMT -6
I recall reading that there's no multi-out routing with software instruments (i.e. Superior Drummer). I'm sure they'll address that eventually, but for now, it's a bummer.
That, coupled with no HW inserts & an Apollo-dependent workflow, probably means this won't become my primary DAW.
In the future, it'd be cool if UA would allow other interfaces to be used as the primary audio device, even if you still have to have an Apollo connected. I just can't see myself wanting to go 100% all-in with an Apollo based setup.
Still, it's a free DAW, and I'm super excited to try it out. Lots of potential for this thing.
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Post by sirthought on Mar 5, 2020 18:13:33 GMT -6
The thing that's going to prevent me from even trying it is I'm still on Sierra. If I upgrade my OS I will also need to upgrade my Pro Tools version and get WUPed by Waves. So ironically, in order to try UA's free product, I will need to shell out a ton of dough to two of UA's biggest competitors. I can see myself eventually moving to LUNA in a couple years when I get a new computer and LUNA has matured. One suggestion in your case is to load the newer Mac OS onto an external drive and boot from there to test out Luna. It's not a long term solution, especially if you are really tied to Waves for production and you don't want to WUP, but you'd be able to see how things flow in Luna without giving up your current setup. Some folks boot different OS's from external drives everyday. Sandboxing in a virtual OS might also be an option.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 19, 2020 14:01:08 GMT -6
Really impressive
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 19, 2020 18:50:09 GMT -6
No one else watch this?
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Post by Guitar on Mar 19, 2020 19:01:35 GMT -6
I skipped through it, seems like they have some good sounds in there.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 19, 2020 19:32:43 GMT -6
Ya but a lot are like light versions of full plugs you would need to buy: Luna is the loss leader: you heard it here first !
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Post by sirthought on Mar 20, 2020 0:38:59 GMT -6
Similar to the whole kitchen sink approach that other DAWs, like Logic, throw in their complete package, these UAD tools like Shape and Revel give production folks a chance to have everything they could need — right out of the gate. You might like other things better than Luna, but if you need to bang out a drum loop, a synth part, piano, etc. it's all going to be of decent quality and right there.
When I look back years ago of having an acoustic guitar only, along with a Tascam 4-track recorder and trying to produce songs that someone might bother to listen to...and then today if I had bought a Twin and got Luna included. It's a whole different world. Same with Presonus or Steinberg, honestly. I don't know if they need to win over the Pro Tools users as much as just make the people coming up feel as if they use it all easily and with good results.
I don't know how to evaluate if things like their Mellotron/Synth/E Piano sounds are better/worse than another option, like Logic. To me they all sound good and are usable. I've read some guys here saying things like Arturia stuff isn't as good as the Kontakt options, but I love what I own from Arturia. I guess it just matters if it evokes a good feeling to you.
I have an old Roland XP-60 with a handful of sound cards that give me most classic synths and organs. I don't like to perform on stage with a computer, but if this synthesis is happening in real time and I could also throw UAD plugins in the sound, then that could be another reason to move in that direction.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 20, 2020 8:23:50 GMT -6
First thing that came to mind to me was selling some of my non essential sound libraries like Keyscape. It’s great - I just don’t use it enough and honestly a decent A-100 and Piano in a mix is fine.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 20, 2020 8:43:47 GMT -6
I kind of agree with this discussion it seems like at some point comparing good/great sample libraries almost becomes an exercise in futility, just use one of them. Use the one you have.
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Post by ragan on Mar 20, 2020 8:53:24 GMT -6
I listened to the instruments part of that vid on my phone and was like, damn, they are really going for the jugular with this thing (and they are). Later I listened in the studio and my first thought was, "Ah ok. Those sounds aren't quite gonna do it for replacing Keyscape, Diva, M-Tron, etc". I think they're still plenty good and that Luna is probably going to kick ass but I wasn't floored by the sonics on the instruments.
As noted though, more than good enough for tons of applications. And packaged together like that, especially if you don't already have better stuff, it's gonna be pretty attractive. If I was just starting out I'd be pretty enticed by an Apollo and Luna rig, other than all the DSP you gotta buy to use a mix worth of UAD.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 20, 2020 9:38:38 GMT -6
Admittedly, I’ve only listened on my phone...but still, as little as I use keyboard instruments, I could probably lose Keyspace.
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Post by popmann on Mar 20, 2020 16:06:57 GMT -6
Ravel sounds better to me than Keyscape. But, then...that's because I like Steinway. Galaxy's Vintage D....Kronos German...Ivory American D--are my main grands. They'e functionally interchangeable. Ivory FEELS a little nicer...I might argue Galaxy might sound the "deepest"...and the Kronos is always on at my fingertips. Obviously if you think Keyscape sounds like your ideal piano, you don't want ANY Steinway sample. Those are very different pianos.
I'd use Ravel. And print it's audio as I play. That's what gets lost in some of this discussion--and I know a lot of the MIDI sequencers among you don't care, but this makes it so that (collective) you will never have latency for the piano when you want to add it--not matter what latent shit is happening in the DAW. That's huge. You can track a band...and give the keyboard player a UAD instrument that gets recorded as audio JUST like the guitarist's amp mic and the drummer's kit mics...all monitored off Console's place in time and fully (I'm assuming) compensated on the recording end since it's first party.
The EPs sounded "hard pass" for me. Organ...I mean...no. Sounded sampled. But, this is the beginning. I will say straight up that if they really get some third party designers for their instrument platform, that WOULD mean I'm finally considering an Apollo system. I mean--they could get Scarbee's 88 for a Rhodes...Theoretically, IK's Hammond thing (even though I still think the B5 is more realistic)...they could really get some drum library maker and have it so you can track an eKit AS AUDIO without a second machine or whack-a-doo routing in the DAW. Giving you the ability to record all MIDI+DI a whole band....then add vocals..I mean...that's something.
The downside of Luna for VIs, like many things UAD....(native, non UAD) software instruments will be MORE latent than using say Cubase because of their built in compensation for UAD stuff. So, you WILL want to use THEIR instruments.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 20, 2020 18:58:38 GMT -6
Yeah, it seems like with UAD you're either IN or you're OUT, for most of the products.
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