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Post by svart on Aug 12, 2019 9:24:02 GMT -6
I will never understand why folks audition mics with the worst sounding drums. uggh. One man's 'dull thud' is another man's "sounds ok to me, sure, nobody will be able to tell'. Right? Well, I wish I had a dollar for every drummer that came through with drums that sound like wet cardboard (like the video) that were absolutely over the moon with their kits once I showed them how to tune them properly.. I'd have many dollars for a nice lunch, but that's not important right now. What's important is that I think that most drummers or even a lot of engineers know that drums are supposed to sing when you hit them, not just be thudding lumps in the mix somewhere..
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Post by Guitar on Aug 12, 2019 9:45:39 GMT -6
What about that thuddy Beatles/Ringo/Abbey Road thing? I don't ever go for that but it's definitely a sound.
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Beyer 201
Aug 12, 2019 9:50:25 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jeremygillespie on Aug 12, 2019 9:50:25 GMT -6
I like a dead thud from time to time when the production calls for it.
That was more of a bouncing basketball thing to me though. Which is something I definitely don’t like.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 12, 2019 9:53:08 GMT -6
Yeah that kick drum was WEAK, haha.
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Post by ragan on Aug 12, 2019 10:19:55 GMT -6
I dunno guys, call me crazy but I'd say the best drum sounds to evaluate gear with are the kind of drum sounds you're gonna be using in your productions. I mean sure, if this dude is going to be working on Dream Theatre or Queensryche sounding records [shudders], those fat, punchy, dry drums are a really bad choice. If he's gonna be working on stuff where the fat, thumpy vibe [un-shudders] is the call then I'd say the video/test is what it should be.
I can't personally stand high, snappy, ringy drums but it's of course a totally subjective thing.
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Post by Ward on Aug 12, 2019 10:57:28 GMT -6
I will never understand why folks audition mics with the worst sounding drums. uggh. One man's 'dull thud' is another man's "sounds ok to me, sure, nobody will be able to tell'. Right? Well, I wish I had a dollar for every drummer that came through with drums that sound like wet cardboard (like the video) that were absolutely over the moon with their kits once I showed them how to tune them properly.. I'd have many dollars for a nice lunch, but that's not important right now. What's important is that I think that most drummers or even a lot of engineers know that drums are supposed to sing when you hit them, not just be thudding lumps in the mix somewhere.. But that 'I love Rock n Roll' snare drum sound, though . . .
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Post by svart on Aug 12, 2019 11:12:35 GMT -6
Well, I wish I had a dollar for every drummer that came through with drums that sound like wet cardboard (like the video) that were absolutely over the moon with their kits once I showed them how to tune them properly.. I'd have many dollars for a nice lunch, but that's not important right now. What's important is that I think that most drummers or even a lot of engineers know that drums are supposed to sing when you hit them, not just be thudding lumps in the mix somewhere.. But that 'I love Rock n Roll' snare drum sound, though . . . Well if that's your thing, go for it. For me though, I've heard way too many snares come through that sounded just like that and it turns out that the drummer hadn't changed the head since Reagan was running for president and didn't know that you could turn the screws to make it sound different. Exaggeration.. A little.. But you get what I mean. That drum sound just sounds like the drummer doesn't care.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 12, 2019 11:26:14 GMT -6
Well, it also depends on what you're looking for - there are some musical styles in which a big, booming "rock and roll" drum sound is totally inappropriate and distracting. In others it's a requirement.
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Post by Ward on Aug 12, 2019 11:38:25 GMT -6
But that 'I love Rock n Roll' snare drum sound, though . . . Well if that's your thing, go for it. For me though, I've heard way too many snares come through that sounded just like that and it turns out that the drummer hadn't changed the head since Reagan was running for president and didn't know that you could turn the screws to make it sound different. Exaggeration.. A little.. But you get what I mean. That drum sound just sounds like the drummer doesn't care. Fair enough . . . I was sort of saying it in jest.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 12, 2019 11:44:14 GMT -6
There are a lot of "modern" productions in which the kick and snare totally overshadows the lead vocal in the arrangement. That would be totally inappropriate for the kind of retro sounding country music that I've been into for the last few years, unlike the kind of punk, hard rock, and metal that I used to be into. Appropriate tuning and playing style is key and needs to work with the arrangement and musical style.
Now if I could just find a GOOD drummer who's comfortable doing a fast shuffle with brushes.... And doesn't thump the damn kick drum too much.....
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Post by svart on Aug 12, 2019 11:45:55 GMT -6
Well, it also depends on what you're looking for - there are some musical styles in which a big, booming "rock and roll" drum sound is totally inappropriate and distracting. In others it's a requirement.
It's all good if it works for what you're doing. I guess since I'm a drummer and I'm pretty anal about tuning and head choice that I've become a bit pissy about the drummers who show up without tuning skills, with heads that should have been changed 5 years ago, or have a half roll of duct tape or 3 packs of moongels applied 12 years ago have fused themselves to the point that a few unfortunate flies that have stuck to them have since fossilized.
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Post by svart on Aug 12, 2019 11:48:10 GMT -6
There are a lot of "modern" productions in which the kick and snare totally overshadows the lead vocal in the arrangement. That would be totally inappropriate for the kind of retro sounding country music that I've been into for the last few years, unlike the kind of punk, hard rock, and metal that I used to be into. Appropriate tuning and playing style is key and needs to work with the arrangement and musical style. Now if I could just find a GOOD drummer who's comfortable doing a fast shuffle with brushes.... And doesn't thump the damn kick drum too much..... I think there is a marked difference between the "tuned too low to the point of poofiness" snare drum and the "wallet on a well tuned snare" that we've heard in classic country. I guess to most folks, they're both just thuds from a snare, but one gets under my skin, the other sounds wonderful to me.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 12, 2019 11:50:43 GMT -6
But that 'I love Rock n Roll' snare drum sound, though . . . Well if that's your thing, go for it. For me though, I've heard way too many snares come through that sounded just like that and it turns out that the drummer hadn't changed the head since Reagan was running for president and didn't know that you could turn the screws to make it sound different. Exaggeration.. A little.. But you get what I mean. That drum sound just sounds like the drummer doesn't care. Or maybe that the drummer understands that it isn't all about him.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Aug 12, 2019 11:51:01 GMT -6
Well, it also depends on what you're looking for - there are some musical styles in which a big, booming "rock and roll" drum sound is totally inappropriate and distracting. In others it's a requirement.
It's all good if it works for what you're doing. I guess since I'm a drummer and I'm pretty anal about tuning and head choice that I've become a bit pissy about the drummers who show up without tuning skills, with heads that should have been changed 5 years ago, or have a half roll of duct tape or 3 packs of moongels applied 12 years ago have fused themselves to the point that a few unfortunate flies that have stuck to them have since fossilized. Have you run into the situation where a drummer has put a moo gel on the drum, then covered it with gaff tape? It turns into this awful nasty liquid that gets all over everything when you pull the tape off. GROSS! Anyway, I sort of like when drummers show up with kits in that fashion and refuse to play a house kit. Gives me a chance to make 3 hours more pay to get new heads on their kit and make them sound good. Shit I might even order a pizza to eat while doing it to further the enjoyment!
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 12, 2019 11:51:56 GMT -6
There are a lot of "modern" productions in which the kick and snare totally overshadows the lead vocal in the arrangement. That would be totally inappropriate for the kind of retro sounding country music that I've been into for the last few years, unlike the kind of punk, hard rock, and metal that I used to be into. Appropriate tuning and playing style is key and needs to work with the arrangement and musical style. Now if I could just find a GOOD drummer who's comfortable doing a fast shuffle with brushes.... And doesn't thump the damn kick drum too much..... I think there is a marked difference between the "tuned too low to the point of poofiness" snare drum and the "wallet on a well tuned snare" that we've heard in classic country. I guess to most folks, they're both just thuds from a snare, but one gets under my skin, the other sounds wonderful to me. Yes!
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 12, 2019 11:54:14 GMT -6
It's all good if it works for what you're doing. I guess since I'm a drummer and I'm pretty anal about tuning and head choice that I've become a bit pissy about the drummers who show up without tuning skills, with heads that should have been changed 5 years ago, or have a half roll of duct tape or 3 packs of moongels applied 12 years ago have fused themselves to the point that a few unfortunate flies that have stuck to them have since fossilized. Have you run into the situation where a drummer has put a moo gel on the drum, then covered it with gaff tape? It turns into this awful nasty liquid that gets all over everything when you pull the tape off. GROSS! Anyway, I sort of like when drummers show up with kits in that fashion and refuse to play a house kit. Gives me a chance to make 3 hours more pay to get new heads on their kit and make them sound good. Shit I might even order a pizza to eat while doing it to further the enjoyment! With extra anchovies to keep the "flies" off.
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Post by ragan on Aug 12, 2019 11:58:03 GMT -6
I don't think the dude in the video has a lack of understanding of drum tuning/maintenance. I think he knows what he's doing and wants that sound.
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Post by svart on Aug 12, 2019 12:00:07 GMT -6
It's all good if it works for what you're doing. I guess since I'm a drummer and I'm pretty anal about tuning and head choice that I've become a bit pissy about the drummers who show up without tuning skills, with heads that should have been changed 5 years ago, or have a half roll of duct tape or 3 packs of moongels applied 12 years ago have fused themselves to the point that a few unfortunate flies that have stuck to them have since fossilized. Have you run into the situation where a drummer has put a moo gel on the drum, then covered it with gaff tape? It turns into this awful nasty liquid that gets all over everything when you pull the tape off. GROSS! Anyway, I sort of like when drummers show up with kits in that fashion and refuse to play a house kit. Gives me a chance to make 3 hours more pay to get new heads on their kit and make them sound good. Shit I might even order a pizza to eat while doing it to further the enjoyment! HA! YEs! I've pulled tape up and been like "is that bubblegum?" and the drummer says "yeah, we didn't have anything else".. I try like crazy to get drummers to play my kits. Some still want theirs for whatever reason so I usually make them show up the night before and leave the kit so I can tune it. Some want to stay and learn how to tune, others are just "I don't care, i just want to play".
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Post by schmalzy on Aug 12, 2019 12:52:39 GMT -6
Have you run into the situation where a drummer has put a moo gel on the drum, then covered it with gaff tape? It turns into this awful nasty liquid that gets all over everything when you pull the tape off. GROSS! Anyway, I sort of like when drummers show up with kits in that fashion and refuse to play a house kit. Gives me a chance to make 3 hours more pay to get new heads on their kit and make them sound good. Shit I might even order a pizza to eat while doing it to further the enjoyment! HA! YEs! I've pulled tape up and been like "is that bubblegum?" and the drummer says "yeah, we didn't have anything else".. I try like crazy to get drummers to play my kits. Some still want theirs for whatever reason so I usually make them show up the night before and leave the kit so I can tune it. Some want to stay and learn how to tune, others are just "I don't care, i just want to play". That "show up the night before and leave the kit" is built into my recording sessions. If a drummer drops their kit off the night before, sets everything up, has new heads, and lets me tune it then I'll scratch the cost of the two-three hours of changing heads and tuning. It'll make my mixes SO much faster (a component of the record-making process that I'm payed a flat rate for) to not have to try to sample replace/augment snares or toms in a dynamically-appropriate-to-the-performance way. It's always a great studio-advertising-opportunity when a drummer sees you at their show and asks you to tune their kit really quickly. "It didn't ever sound as good as it did when we were tracking with you!" Just make sure to remind them to tell their musician friends!
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Beyer 201
Aug 12, 2019 14:04:59 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jampa on Aug 12, 2019 14:04:59 GMT -6
I don't think the dude in the video has a lack of understanding of drum tuning/maintenance. I think he knows what he's doing and wants that sound. Yep this ^. I believe he's a session muso and can make many sounds at will. The beyer m201 shows it's proximity effect here. The m88 demo inspires me to try them on toms.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 12, 2019 14:21:14 GMT -6
Those do sound really nice. Perhaps Bob Olhsson can give some insight as to whether the M88 really was used much at Motown. Never at Motown!
I was working at Prune Music in Mill Valley CA and one of their engineers had just finished an album at A&M where apparently they'd just replaced their 57s with M-88s. That certainly made them worth checking out and I was very impressed.
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Post by bigbone on Aug 12, 2019 14:22:13 GMT -6
I don't think the dude in the video has a lack of understanding of drum tuning/maintenance. I think he knows what he's doing and wants that sound. Maybe he was aiming for the mic and didn't pay attention to the drums sound.
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Beyer 201
Aug 12, 2019 14:32:55 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ragan on Aug 12, 2019 14:32:55 GMT -6
I don't think the dude in the video has a lack of understanding of drum tuning/maintenance. I think he knows what he's doing and wants that sound. Maybe he was aiming for the mic and didn't pay attention to the drums sound. A Floor toms with the "basketball" tone isn't a good sign of knowing how to tention a drums heads.!!! Utterly subjective. Both whether something “sounds like a basketball” and whether that’s desirable for a given track or not.
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Post by bigbone on Aug 12, 2019 16:38:32 GMT -6
Maybe he was aiming for the mic and didn't pay attention to the drums sound. A Floor toms with the "basketball" tone isn't a good sign of knowing how to tention a drums heads.!!! Utterly subjective. Both whether something “sounds like a basketball” and whether that’s desirable for a given track or not. A floor toms who's sound with a clearly pitchy note isn't utterly subjective in my part. to each his own. !!!!
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Post by donr on Aug 12, 2019 17:39:57 GMT -6
Yeah, the kit with all the mics might be servicable within a song, but it took a lot of damping of heads to get them sounding as good as he did. Cardboard boxes or paint pails might sound as good.
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