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Post by lpedrum on Aug 7, 2019 14:32:31 GMT -6
I notice that EV still makes the RE16. John--do you know if the new ones are the same/comparable to the old ones? They're billed as super cardioid. I'm being a bit influenced by the look of the mic--definitely old school. New hand held cardioid mics are like new cars--they all sorta have the same boring look. I do not know if the new ones are as good as the old ones. It does appear that EV has moved all mic manufacturing to China, which to me does not bode well for their quality control, but I have not used a new one so I really can't say. I have used a couple of the newer N/D series of mics and my impression was that they're not as good, but it was in a live situation with a not great PA, so I can't say that's definitive. And I don't KNOW that new RE16s are Chinese, but I'm pretty sure that new RE20s are, so that would be indicative, I think. All the EVs I own are US made. I've google searched where the RE16 might be made and nothing definitive is popping up. However, if you shop for a new one the photo of the mic always shows "Made in USA" On the other hand, a reviewer held up the box of an EV 635a and it says "Made in the USA of Domestic and Foreign Content." Well that's fun! Maybe an EV fanatic can clear things up. Sorry to derail the SM7 talk--just wondering if the new EV RE16 is a worthy competitor.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 7, 2019 14:41:56 GMT -6
I do not know if the new ones are as good as the old ones. It does appear that EV has moved all mic manufacturing to China, which to me does not bode well for their quality control, but I have not used a new one so I really can't say. I have used a couple of the newer N/D series of mics and my impression was that they're not as good, but it was in a live situation with a not great PA, so I can't say that's definitive. And I don't KNOW that new RE16s are Chinese, but I'm pretty sure that new RE20s are, so that would be indicative, I think. All the EVs I own are US made. I've google searched where the RE16 might be made and nothing definitive is popping up. However, if you shop for a new one the photo of the mic always shows "Made in USA" On the other hand, a reviewer held up the box of an EV 635a and it says "Made in the USA of Domestic and Foreign Content." Well that's fun! Maybe an EV fanatic can clear things up. Sorry to derail the SM7 talk--just wondering if the new EV RE16 is a worthy competitor. I don't know, but would really like to.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 7, 2019 15:01:18 GMT -6
The factory in Michigan, closed down around 2000. So... I bet it's China and they're still as good as the old ones. BTW I found an old video clip of the Guess Who on YouTube. Burton Cummings is singing live on a 635a, and it sounded great for his voice. The song was "Laughing". His vocal even sounded slightly better (gasp!) than the Classic studio version. Ah the good old days, when people could actually sing and play instruments! Chris
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Post by sirthought on Aug 7, 2019 15:53:22 GMT -6
I do not know if the new ones are as good as the old ones. It does appear that EV has moved all mic manufacturing to China, which to me does not bode well for their quality control, but I have not used a new one so I really can't say. I have used a couple of the newer N/D series of mics and my impression was that they're not as good, but it was in a live situation with a not great PA, so I can't say that's definitive. And I don't KNOW that new RE16s are Chinese, but I'm pretty sure that new RE20s are, so that would be indicative, I think. All the EVs I own are US made. I've google searched where the RE16 might be made and nothing definitive is popping up. However, if you shop for a new one the photo of the mic always shows "Made in USA" On the other hand, a reviewer held up the box of an EV 635a and it says "Made in the USA of Domestic and Foreign Content." Well that's fun! Maybe an EV fanatic can clear things up. Sorry to derail the SM7 talk--just wondering if the new EV RE16 is a worthy competitor. I'm guessing their usefulness and quality is about the same as always. I have the RE-11, which is basically the same mic, and they are just interesting mics to try on everything. Even worth a shot on vocals for many singers. RE-16 was Elvis' mic of choice on stage. Lots of classic TV performances with Frank Sinatra using them. I don't think they have a sound that makes you thank the heavens, but it's a really solid choice and doesn't seem to color things much.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 7, 2019 16:24:47 GMT -6
Late 60's/early 70's the RE15 (w/foam pop filter) was Elvis' main studio mic! I thank the heavens for those vocals, and the EV's used for the Sinatra/Jobim TV Special! Just ask Bob O., those babies can sound terrific! (oops there goes the ebay prices again) Chris
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 7, 2019 17:06:41 GMT -6
ive also used a 57 on acoustic in a tiny room and had no issues. an sm7 has a very smooth top end that can sound dull on certain sources which is why it works for screamo and female vocals most of the time. As a general rule I hate 57s on female vocals.
I can think of ONE vocalist I'd want to use a 57 on.
Lemmy.
And he's dead.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 7, 2019 20:21:06 GMT -6
I agree somewhat I prefer the SE V7X on snare, it gives a little more "natural" in the room type of tone, and also has better high hat isolation. At least that's what I've been into lately. It's becoming harder for me to find applications where I really want an SM57 instead of something else. I guess heavy guitar sounds is the big holdout. That is "a thing." Although lately I'm using a 545SD just to be different. Well, a little different anyway. The 545 has a copper voice coil, the SM57 has had Aluminum since at least the mid-80s. The first few years of 57s used copper - they were 545 cartridges with 57 colored paint over the black plastic shell. Later 57s use an aluminum shell. That's a cool fact that I bet a lot of people don't know.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 8, 2019 11:00:51 GMT -6
The 545 has a copper voice coil, the SM57 has had Aluminum since at least the mid-80s. The first few years of 57s used copper - they were 545 cartridges with 57 colored paint over the black plastic shell. Later 57s use an aluminum shell. That's a cool fact that I bet a lot of people don't know. I used to do a lot of surgery on Shure Unidyne type mics.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 8, 2019 15:23:20 GMT -6
Tone-sillectomies? (sorry-couldn't resist) Chris
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Post by ragan on Aug 8, 2019 16:38:49 GMT -6
This thread prompted me to go back and listen to a bunch of stuff I recorded with an SM7b and a 441...and buy another 441.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 8, 2019 16:47:24 GMT -6
Well a 441 is like Brigitte Bardot in her prime, the SM7 is like... The pretty girl next door. Chris
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Post by lpedrum on Aug 8, 2019 17:31:16 GMT -6
I've never owned a 441 but like what I've heard. I'm a bit perplexed though--what could possibly cause any dynamic mic to sell for $900 street?
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Post by Guitar on Aug 8, 2019 17:38:53 GMT -6
I wouldn't pay new price for one, used is about half that.
They are quite possibly the best sounding dynamic mic of all time and work on nearly any source.
It's kind of odd that you don't see more people using them. I guess there are so many choices they get lost in the fray sometimes.
Also they are physically quite huge which makes them mildly uncomfortable to position sometimes. Same with the RE20. I think that is the real reason people use them less. Annoying sh%t like that will make you grab something else almost every time, unless you're a real zen master.
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Post by geoff738 on Aug 8, 2019 19:22:45 GMT -6
I've never owned a 441 but like what I've heard. I'm a bit perplexed though--what could possibly cause any dynamic mic to sell for $900 street? Excellent question. I’ve heard them described as condenser like. Never used one. Would those that like them agree with that assessment? And if so why not buy/use a condenser. Sorry for the OT. I’d like to hear/use one, but not in the budget. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 9:55:19 GMT -6
Also they are physically quite huge which makes them mildly uncomfortable to position sometimes. Same with the RE20. I think that is the real reason people use them less. Annoying sh%t like that will make you grab something else almost every time, unless you're a real zen master. It's my favorite snare drum mic, that I almost never get to use on snare drums because it rarely fits.
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Post by ragan on Aug 9, 2019 10:18:07 GMT -6
I think the "sounds like a condenser" thing is because it's very detailed, more so than any other dynamic I've heard. But it also has that thick sort of satin-y cushion that good dynamics can give. The combo makes it a really nice, uniquely useful mic in my experience. No idea why they cost so much but I've never bought one new either.
I just have a real affinity for 441s. Love using it, love the way it sounds.
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Post by drbill on Aug 9, 2019 10:28:41 GMT -6
Ditto. I need another one now that I think of it....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 17:00:22 GMT -6
One thing that might have contributed to the adjective "condenser-like" to a certain degree might be it's sound with the present boost on, which can be had with the flip of a switch. Sometimes it is just, what a source needs and to me it gives me some condenser-like impression. As for the form factor: It is kind of odd, and the mic holder (original) is kind of overpriced and tended to break, I guess the original one was transparent polystyrol. There is a black version of it that is much more durable, and in the meantime there are also cheaper chinese 3rd company versions of it. If the form factor gets in the way, e.g. for snare or similar occasions, I would instantly try the M201 as an alternative. Also a very fine mic with some of the 441 qualities, sometimes called "poor man's 441" for a reason. I love both.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 17:25:46 GMT -6
Pricing of the 441 is kind of high and most people would choose a condenser in this price range, but this said, as a dynamic mic, the 441 does have some different behaviour to condensers. Mine came with a measurement protocol, which is kind of nice. It has a slight bump up at 7kHz and rolls off very softly above 10 kHz. If you use the presence boost, you get a kind of linear boost of ca. 2dB from 1kHz on. It is slightly coloring in the highs, but it is a very nice color. It is not as fast as a ribbon, but on the other hand more robust, which makes up for that, and they don't rely on phantom power and battery and IMO take higher levels better than condensers. The 5-step bass roll-of switch is kind of nice, but I don't really miss it in my 541, which does lack this feature but is technically identical otherwise. It has a kind of humbucking technology ("Brummkompensationsspule") which is a good rejection mechanism agains noises and an internal popp filter. The basket is something to take care of, it is pretty annoying to have a drummer hit it with a stick and bam! it looks a bit less good. Not good for resale value, so I only use it on drums, if I really trust in the drummers abilities... So, there are quite some qualities that could make it the mic of choice, even if you have the alternative of a ribbon or condenser, that are due to it beeing a dynamic. And these are, what might make it even a good deal for 900 USD new. Used, it is much more attractive to buy. And they are quite longliving mics.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 9, 2019 17:36:31 GMT -6
Honestly, I'd get a nice used 441, before even the nicer/lower cost U47 clones-at Warm & AA.
Once you hit the "Chad" or "Chris" level of U47 style providers, then it's the reverse IMHO. Chris
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 17:45:35 GMT -6
(Repairing one is not that funny, just take a look on the explosion graphics, it is tricky to open and re-mount, one reason more to handle it with care. I have seen how annoying it can be to repair a loose capsule contact that came off after one had dropped to the floor resulting in no signal anymore. Quite of simple defect, still no fun to repair...)
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Post by pouletdegrains on Aug 10, 2019 13:38:38 GMT -6
IMO a great alternative to a 441 are the 431-531 microphones (mk1, the second versions don't have a good reputation). I haven't had the chance to compare them side by side, but my 531 sounds beautifully. It is supposed to share a lot of similarities with 441, with high-pass built-in and a slightly different voicing. Their look is so so but the standard shape make them easy to set up. In Europe (especially Germany) they can be found for cheap, around 130-150 euros, maybe the best value for money as far as dynamic mics are concerned.
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Post by ragan on Aug 10, 2019 14:01:46 GMT -6
IMO a great alternative to a 441 are the 431-531 microphones (mk1, the second versions don't have a good reputation). I haven't had the chance to compare them side by side, but my 531 sounds beautifully. It is supposed to share a lot of similarities with 441, with high-pass built-in and a slightly different voicing. Their look is so so but the standard shape make them easy to set up. In Europe (especially Germany) they can be found for cheap, around 130-150 euros, maybe the best value for money as far as dynamic mics are considered. I think those things look awesome. They look like the vocal mic Buck Rogers would use if he started a band. Tried one a long time ago after seeing Dave Grohl using them but I didn’t know what the hell I was doing then.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 10, 2019 14:19:04 GMT -6
I tried one and I didn't like it at all
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Post by pouletdegrains on Aug 10, 2019 15:15:22 GMT -6
IMO a great alternative to a 441 are the 431-531 microphones (mk1, the second versions don't have a good reputation). I haven't had the chance to compare them side by side, but my 531 sounds beautifully. It is supposed to share a lot of similarities with 441, with high-pass built-in and a slightly different voicing. Their look is so so but the standard shape make them easy to set up. In Europe (especially Germany) they can be found for cheap, around 130-150 euros, maybe the best value for money as far as dynamic mics are considered. I think those things look awesome. They look like the vocal mic Buck Rogers would use if he started a band. Tried one a long time ago after seeing Dave Grohl using them but I didn’t know what the hell I was doing then. I love how the 531 looks... but appreciation of design is highly subjective! It may become trendy however as the 80s/futuristic aesthetic is favored by some artists nowadays...
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