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Post by chessparov on Aug 4, 2019 10:30:27 GMT -6
Unless you're happy, just strumming a G string. Chris
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 4, 2019 14:31:20 GMT -6
you know what mic does sound good on acoustic. is not bad on vocals and doesnt pick up the room..... sm57. I'd take a Beyer 201 or any of the EV RE 10/11/15/16series over a 57 any day of the week for acoustic. Or even a 635A.
And 57s do definitely pick up the room and make it sound terrible. IMO 57s are responsibe for selling more unneccessary room treatment (of the wrong type) than any other single factor.
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Post by junior on Aug 4, 2019 15:24:40 GMT -6
+1 for all the 441 love. My favorite dynamic.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 4, 2019 16:31:34 GMT -6
I was checking prices on SM7s - they seem to have gone up over the past year. Looks like I can get another M88 for what SM7s are currently running......
HMmmm....
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Post by gouge on Aug 4, 2019 16:35:00 GMT -6
you know what mic does sound good on acoustic. is not bad on vocals and doesnt pick up the room..... sm57. I'd take a Beyer 201 or any of the EV RE 10/11/15/16series over a 57 any day of the week for acoustic. Or even a 635A.
And 57s do definitely pick up the room and make it sound terrible. IMO 57s are responsibe for selling more unneccessary room treatment (of the wrong type) than any other single factor.
i cant agree. ive tracked 2 50w cabs side by side in a tiny room with both amps cranked and got almost no bleed. to the point i didn't think one mic was working. ive also used them as room mics and been happy. of course ive used them where they sounded horrible too. cant help but feel its placement in those cases. I guess the point is there are many mics that would be better than sm7 on acoustic including a some sdc mics that work well in bad rooms.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 4, 2019 16:44:15 GMT -6
I'd take a Beyer 201 or any of the EV RE 10/11/15/16series over a 57 any day of the week for acoustic. Or even a 635A.
And 57s do definitely pick up the room and make it sound terrible. IMO 57s are responsibe for selling more unneccessary room treatment (of the wrong type) than any other single factor.
i cant agree. ive tracked 2 50w cabs side by side in a tiny room with both amps cranked and got almost no bleed. to the point i didn't think one mic was working. ive also used them as room mics and been happy. of course ive used them where they sounded horrible too. cant help but feel its placement in those cases. I guess the point is there are many mics that would be better than sm7 on acoustic including a some sdc mics that work well in bad rooms. Sure.
50 watt cabs are loud - a lot louder that a human voice or acoustic guitar.
According to the inverse square law it's not suprising that you didn't get much off-axis pickup with that din going on.
I wouldn't want to use a 57 as a room mic.
An SM7 I can't really say, yet.
I've done a LOT of recording with 57s on most everything. I thought they were fine then, but I almost certainly wouldn't agree now.
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Post by gouge on Aug 4, 2019 16:48:04 GMT -6
ive also used a 57 on acoustic in a tiny room and had no issues.
an sm7 has a very smooth top end that can sound dull on certain sources which is why it works for screamo and female vocals most of the time.
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 4, 2019 17:37:26 GMT -6
I was checking prices on SM7s - they seem to have gone up over the past year. Looks like I can get another M88 for what SM7s are currently running...... HMmmm.... Get another m88, you'll be happier. SM7's are fine, nothing against them. But with you're mic collection you dont need one, not by a long shot. You're not missing anything they're bringing to the table. I'm a recent m88 owner. Getting that mic is one of the reasons I sold my sm7.
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 4, 2019 17:40:24 GMT -6
you know what mic does sound good on acoustic. is not bad on vocals and doesnt pick up the room..... sm57. I'd take a Beyer 201 or any of the EV RE 10/11/15/16series over a 57 any day of the week for acoustic. Or even a 635A.
And 57s do definitely pick up the room and make it sound terrible. IMO 57s are responsibe for selling more unneccessary room treatment (of the wrong type) than any other single factor.
Yeah, you know I wouldn't say myself that the 57 picks up a ton of room, but the room sound/bleed it does pick up is just plain ugly.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 4, 2019 17:42:03 GMT -6
Generally, my favorite kind of vocals on a 57/58/7... Are in a dense mix, on a bright toned vocalist.
For example, John Leslie's brilliant work, on The Stone Roses debut album. The 58 sounds fantastic on the lead vocals. Personally, 57/58 sound good for me on Rockabilly style songs.
Sam Phillips used the Shure Unidyne to great effect at Sun. IIRC specifically on Heartbreak Hotel. I realize he normally used a ribbon. Chris P.S. I keep a spare 58, for local Pro Jams.
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Post by ragan on Aug 4, 2019 18:39:33 GMT -6
You jerks just made me revisit some of the tracks I cut with my SM7b (back when I had one) and I’m now sorely tempted to buy another one.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 4, 2019 18:51:34 GMT -6
Generally, my favorite kind of vocals on a 57/58/7... Are in a dense mix, on a bright toned vocalist. For example, John Leslie's brilliant work, on The Stone Roses debut album. The 58 sounds fantastic on the lead vocals. Personally, 57/58 sound good for me on Rockabilly style songs. Sam Phillips used the Shure Unidyne to great effect at Sun. IIRC specifically on Heartbreak Hotel. I realize he normally used a ribbon. Chris P.S. I keep a spare 58, for local Pro Jams. John Leslie is in another line of work. John Leckie did the Roses. I think you got autocorrected!
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Post by Quint on Aug 4, 2019 20:25:53 GMT -6
I'd take a Beyer 201 or any of the EV RE 10/11/15/16series over a 57 any day of the week for acoustic. Or even a 635A.
And 57s do definitely pick up the room and make it sound terrible. IMO 57s are responsibe for selling more unneccessary room treatment (of the wrong type) than any other single factor.
Yeah, you know I wouldn't say myself that the 57 picks up a ton of room, but the room sound/bleed it does pick up is just plain ugly. This is why I quit using a 57 on snare or on drums in general. The off axis sound just sounds crappy a lot of the time, especially when those off axis sounds are coming from relatively close by on other pieces of the kit.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 4, 2019 20:30:00 GMT -6
I agree somewhat I prefer the SE V7X on snare, it gives a little more "natural" in the room type of tone, and also has better high hat isolation.
At least that's what I've been into lately.
It's becoming harder for me to find applications where I really want an SM57 instead of something else. I guess heavy guitar sounds is the big holdout. That is "a thing." Although lately I'm using a 545SD just to be different. Well, a little different anyway.
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 4, 2019 21:18:00 GMT -6
Yeah, you know I wouldn't say myself that the 57 picks up a ton of room, but the room sound/bleed it does pick up is just plain ugly. This is why I quit using a 57 on snare or on drums in general. The off axis sound just sounds crappy a lot of the time, especially when those off axis sounds are coming from relatively close by on other pieces of the kit. Beyer m201...it’s what sm57s want to be when they grow up. Try one one on snare and then try and stop smiling
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Post by Quint on Aug 4, 2019 21:47:21 GMT -6
This is why I quit using a 57 on snare or on drums in general. The off axis sound just sounds crappy a lot of the time, especially when those off axis sounds are coming from relatively close by on other pieces of the kit. Beyer m201...it’s what sm57s want to be when they grow up. Try one one on snare and then try and stop smiling I've always wanted to try one on snare but have never had the chance. My go to on snare for quite some time has been the Audix i5. It has much better off axis response than the 57.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 4, 2019 22:02:01 GMT -6
Generally, my favorite kind of vocals on a 57/58/7... Are in a dense mix, on a bright toned vocalist. For example, John Leslie's brilliant work, on The Stone Roses debut album. The 58 sounds fantastic on the lead vocals. Personally, 57/58 sound good for me on Rockabilly style songs. Sam Phillips used the Shure Unidyne to great effect at Sun. IIRC specifically on Heartbreak Hotel. I realize he normally used a ribbon. Chris P.S. I keep a spare 58, for local Pro Jams. John Leslie is in another line of work. John Leckie did the Roses. I think you got autocorrected! Yes! It was the Autospell, that made me look like a lackey. It's Leckie! Chris
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Post by lpedrum on Aug 7, 2019 11:25:46 GMT -6
you know what mic does sound good on acoustic. is not bad on vocals and doesnt pick up the room..... sm57. I'd take a Beyer 201 or any of the EV RE 10/11/15/16series over a 57 any day of the week for acoustic. Or even a 635A.
And 57s do definitely pick up the room and make it sound terrible. IMO 57s are responsibe for selling more unneccessary room treatment (of the wrong type) than any other single factor.
I notice that EV still makes the RE16. John--do you know if the new ones are the same/comparable to the old ones? They're billed as super cardioid. I'm being a bit influenced by the look of the mic--definitely old school. New hand held cardioid mics are like new cars--they all sorta have the same boring look.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 11:53:09 GMT -6
One reason that europeans might question the choice of the SM7 more than americans, might be, that traditionally, esp. in Germany, the broadcast used almost exclusively german products, and broadcast was driven by a kind of tax exclusively, no private broadcast at all, and pricing was not the first point in mic choice. And there are plenty of fine dynamic mics that might fit the task, as already mentioned, the M88, or my favorites like M201 (which is also easy to handle from form factor and even cheaper than the SM7) and of course the MD441 which might be even the finest dynamic ever built (ok, obviously, there will be different opinions on this). So SM7 of RE20 don't have the same traditions of usage here. And I remember, that I have seen an SM7 for vocals first, when seeing a Metallica documentation and had the impression, that every heavy band wanted one afterwards. On acoustic guitar, I had not seen this until lately ... So, there are serious reasons to debate, if there are better and maybe even less expensive options available that fit the task better, without just namedropping arguments. Nearly everyone used an SM57 or SM58 at some point in time, although this does not mean it is the best choice for every task, obviously... Personally, I might not buy an SM7 just because the M201 is even more affordable and a great mic. And yes, I bought a blackfire 541 in mint/as new condition for the price of an SM7b and think this was a very good purchase and would do again, if I had the choice ... Not saying the SM7 is a bad mic, not at all. There are just many alternatives.
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Post by notneeson on Aug 7, 2019 12:09:39 GMT -6
Beyer m201...it’s what sm57s want to be when they grow up. Try one one on snare and then try and stop smiling I've always wanted to try one on snare but have never had the chance. My go to on snare for quite some time has been the Audix i5. It has much better off axis response than the 57. M201s are so good. Great on gtr cabs too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 12:24:32 GMT -6
I was checking prices on SM7s - they seem to have gone up over the past year. Looks like I can get another M88 for what SM7s are currently running...... HMmmm.... Get another m88, you'll be happier. SM7's are fine, nothing against them. But with you're mic collection you dont need one, not by a long shot. You're not missing anything they're bringing to the table. I'm a recent m88 owner. Getting that mic is one of the reasons I sold my sm7. They're quite different sounding, and even the form factor comes into play, so I see reason to own both. They are the 2 dynamics I typically shoot out against each other for bass and guitar cabs, as well as vocals. In instances where the 88 isn't right on something, the SM7 often is, and vise versa.
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 7, 2019 13:42:23 GMT -6
Get another m88, you'll be happier. SM7's are fine, nothing against them. But with you're mic collection you dont need one, not by a long shot. You're not missing anything they're bringing to the table. I'm a recent m88 owner. Getting that mic is one of the reasons I sold my sm7. They're quite different sounding, and even the form factor comes into play, so I see reason to own both. They are the 2 dynamics I typically shoot out against each other for bass and guitar cabs, as well as vocals. In instances where the 88 isn't right on something, the SM7 often is, and vise versa. Agreed, they are quite different sounding. But I also own a m201 which for my needs makes the sm7 kind of redundant.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 7, 2019 14:01:15 GMT -6
I'd take a Beyer 201 or any of the EV RE 10/11/15/16series over a 57 any day of the week for acoustic. Or even a 635A.
And 57s do definitely pick up the room and make it sound terrible. IMO 57s are responsibe for selling more unneccessary room treatment (of the wrong type) than any other single factor.
I notice that EV still makes the RE16. John--do you know if the new ones are the same/comparable to the old ones? They're billed as super cardioid. I'm being a bit influenced by the look of the mic--definitely old school. New hand held cardioid mics are like new cars--they all sorta have the same boring look. I do not know if the new ones are as good as the old ones. It does appear that EV has moved all mic manufacturing to China, which to me does not bode well for their quality control, but I have not used a new one so I really can't say. I have used a couple of the newer N/D series of mics and my impression was that they're not as good, but it was in a live situation with a not great PA, so I can't say that's definitive. And I don't KNOW that new RE16s are Chinese, but I'm pretty sure that new RE20s are, so that would be indicative, I think. All the EVs I own are US made.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 7, 2019 14:13:36 GMT -6
I’ve used an old Unidyne 57 on acoustic and liked it. I find that it can give it some mids to cut through a dense mix whereas as a condenser sometimes just pokes the pick transients through with no body. Usually for a tight pickup pattern I’ll use an M160 though. You have to experiment with placement a little to reduce boominess but after that it sounds great. You've been using the wrong condensers. I generally dislike most "modern voiced" condensers with the hyped presence peak.
My go-to condensers on acoustic are the AKG C12A, Neumann KM84, and the old AKG C414 EB. Not the new 414s, though. Sometimes the Pearlman TM-1 or a pre-Sennheiser U87.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 7, 2019 14:20:27 GMT -6
I agree somewhat I prefer the SE V7X on snare, it gives a little more "natural" in the room type of tone, and also has better high hat isolation. At least that's what I've been into lately. It's becoming harder for me to find applications where I really want an SM57 instead of something else. I guess heavy guitar sounds is the big holdout. That is "a thing." Although lately I'm using a 545SD just to be different. Well, a little different anyway. The 545 has a copper voice coil, the SM57 has had Aluminum since at least the mid-80s. The first few years of 57s used copper - they were 545 cartridges with 57 colored paint over the black plastic shell. Later 57s use an aluminum shell.
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