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Post by mikec on May 1, 2019 10:42:38 GMT -6
Just curious if anyone here is using one of the newer small format consoles like API the Box, SSL XL-Desk, Audient 4816, etc. Basically, one of the ones that does not take an external power supply and extra air conditioning. Are these worth it when compared to a good summing box like the 2Bus+ or Rupert Neve 5059 and some good outboard preamps, comps, and eqs? I'm not worried about recall so much since I really specialize in singer/songwriters and small ensembles and don't have to do much in revisions after the final mix.
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Post by mythundreamt on May 1, 2019 11:55:31 GMT -6
I had the API Box for about a year, and I sure thought it was better than the summing solutions I tried before (Tonebuss/Equinox/API DSM/passive resistor network + 1272). I can't say if it is blanket "worth it" given the (significant) added expense, but it was to me... everyone might not feel that way, but I was happy to have splurged on it.
What will be easier to agree with is the overall workflow/fun improvement of having all those faders, auxes, solo, monitoring control, bus comp and whatnot right there. To me, there was a clearly discernible net sonic improvement too, especially with how quickly a better sounding mix came together. With the other solutions, I was never sure if it was any different than just ITB, but mixing with the Box I was sure it all sounded better and easier to do, to boot. I'm glad I had it. I sold it only because I had the opportunity to replace it with a similar vintage API piece, which is even more of all those things.
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Post by matt@IAA on May 1, 2019 12:34:33 GMT -6
I think it’s going to be more about workflow and ergonomics than sonics.
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Post by bradd on May 1, 2019 12:40:38 GMT -6
I'm using a Cadac Live 1, after upgrading from a Soundcraft Ghost. If I had a larger budget, I probably would have looked at the ones you are referencing. It works very well for me though since I do not really use the pres or EQ. I like having auxes, faders, inserts, and other routing options that get more complicated without a console. For me it is definitely worth it and the Cadac is a nice size that doesn't take up half the room.
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Post by javamad on May 1, 2019 13:06:50 GMT -6
I was looking at the Audient 4816 but went for the RND 5060 instead. I just didn't think it would really be worth the recall pain for the sonics.
I am a very happy camper with the 5060 and combined with 2 x BF Apollo 8 with some added HW pres (Audient ASP880, Dual BAE 1073 and more recently a UA4110).
I don't actually try to track through the 5060, its a monitor controller and summer. I use an XLR and TT patchbay to do my tracking and hybrid mixing routing.
If I had bigger space and wallet I would definitely go for an API 1608 or something like that ... though I am so used to the RND5060 now I might even keep it too! Just recording with decent mic positioning (no eq and no comp) and just playing back through the 5060 it all sounds like a record already!
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Post by mikec on May 1, 2019 13:34:51 GMT -6
I was looking at the Audient 4816 but went for the RND 5060 instead. I just didn't think it would really be worth the recall pain for the sonics. I am a very happy camper with the 5060 and combined with 2 x BF Apollo 8 with some added HW pres (Audient ASP880, Dual BAE 1073 and more recently a UA4110). I don't actually try to track through the 5060, its a monitor controller and summer. I use an XLR and TT patchbay to do my tracking and hybrid mixing routing. If I had bigger space and wallet I would definitely go for an API 1608 or something like that ... though I am so used to the RND5060 now I might even keep it too! Just recording with decent mic positioning (no eq and no comp) and just playing back through the 5060 it all sounds like a record already! The 5060 and 5059 are two that I have seriously looked at as an alternative to something like the XL-Desk or Box. I have quite a bit of outboard that I use now in a hybrid setup. It's great to hear your feedback on the 5060. |
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Post by subspace on May 1, 2019 14:38:44 GMT -6
I have the smallest of the small format Audients, the ASP2802. I wouldn't buy it just to set the faders to unity and sum, you'd need a fairly colored box to make that worthwhile. I use it for automated analog subgroups with colored compressors/EQs inserted, for DAW control over the individual tracks, and for fx returns from outboard fx units at mix. It's the monitoring hub during tracking and overdubs as well.
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Post by swurveman on May 1, 2019 15:11:13 GMT -6
I have the smallest of the small format Audients, the ASP2802. I wouldn't buy it just to set the faders to unity and sum, you'd need a fairly colored box to make that worthwhile. I use it for automated analog subgroups with colored compressors/EQs inserted, for DAW control over the individual tracks, and for fx returns from outboard fx units at mix. It's the monitoring hub during tracking and overdubs as well. Which and how many analog eq's are you using as inserts? Also, are you using the 2802's mic pre's for tracking, or outboard mic pre's? |
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Post by subspace on May 1, 2019 16:23:56 GMT -6
I have the smallest of the small format Audients, the ASP2802. I wouldn't buy it just to set the faders to unity and sum, you'd need a fairly colored box to make that worthwhile. I use it for automated analog subgroups with colored compressors/EQs inserted, for DAW control over the individual tracks, and for fx returns from outboard fx units at mix. It's the monitoring hub during tracking and overdubs as well. Which and how many analog eq's are you using as inserts? Also, are you using the 2802's mic pre's for tracking, or outboard mic pre's? I've got 16 channels of Trident Trimix 4-bands plus a pair of TNC 1084s and a pair K-T EQPs for their expanded HPF/LPF and shelving curve abilites respectively. I use the 2802 preamps along with outboard TNC, CAPI and Focusrite. Just recorded a duet with acoustic and chose all Audient pres on them. |
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Post by drbill on May 1, 2019 18:10:31 GMT -6
Yes. A pair of D&R Vision's custom ganged together. But I don't "mix" thru them - I mix hybrid with analog on the inserts of my DAW. I use the mixer for various studio duties including as a sub mixer for my analog keyboards, extra mic pre's when necessary, etc.. Mounted them in a swinging wall that tucks back in when not in use. I don't really "need" them, but it's kind of a tribute to my console ridden past....  |
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Post by svart on May 2, 2019 11:01:39 GMT -6
What's small format? I have a 24x8 console which I guess is considered "small" in track count although it takes up quite a bit of room!
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 2, 2019 11:41:18 GMT -6
Just curious if anyone here is using one of the newer small format consoles like API the Box, SSL XL-Desk, Audient 4816, etc. Basically, one of the ones that does not take an external power supply and extra air conditioning. Are these worth it when compared to a good summing box like the 2Bus+ or Rupert Neve 5059 and some good outboard preamps, comps, and eqs? I'm not worried about recall so much since I really specialize in singer/songwriters and small ensembles and don't have to do much in revisions after the final mix. Are you just mixing or tracking too? I love everything about having a console when I'm tracking. Setting up cues, eq while tracking, setting up a decent control room balance. |
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Post by mikec on May 2, 2019 16:50:59 GMT -6
Just curious if anyone here is using one of the newer small format consoles like API the Box, SSL XL-Desk, Audient 4816, etc. Basically, one of the ones that does not take an external power supply and extra air conditioning. Are these worth it when compared to a good summing box like the 2Bus+ or Rupert Neve 5059 and some good outboard preamps, comps, and eqs? I'm not worried about recall so much since I really specialize in singer/songwriters and small ensembles and don't have to do much in revisions after the final mix. Are you just mixing or tracking too? I love everything about having a console when I'm tracking. Setting up cues, eq while tracking, setting up a decent control room balance. Yes, both tracking and mixing. Looking for the reasons you mentioned above. |
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Post by Guitar on May 2, 2019 16:53:26 GMT -6
I use a Midas DM16 for mixing my synths and keyboards down to a stereo or mono output. In the past I used a Mackie 1604 or 1202 VLZ4. Once in a while I did some successful mixdowns on those boards. My main preference of the mixer/board is the same as jcoutu1 it makes for effortless monitoring moves. no computer BS to slow you down. |
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Post by wiz on May 2, 2019 17:06:30 GMT -6
I use a modified Soundcraft Delta, Its still probably the best buy in terms of super hi end sonics vs dollars, but its helpful if you can do the maintenance yourself.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by javamad on May 2, 2019 17:27:44 GMT -6
I was looking at the Audient 4816 but went for the RND 5060 instead. I just didn't think it would really be worth the recall pain for the sonics. I am a very happy camper with the 5060 and combined with 2 x BF Apollo 8 with some added HW pres (Audient ASP880, Dual BAE 1073 and more recently a UA4110). I don't actually try to track through the 5060, its a monitor controller and summer. I use an XLR and TT patchbay to do my tracking and hybrid mixing routing. If I had bigger space and wallet I would definitely go for an API 1608 or something like that ... though I am so used to the RND5060 now I might even keep it too! Just recording with decent mic positioning (no eq and no comp) and just playing back through the 5060 it all sounds like a record already! The 5060 and 5059 are two that I have seriously looked at as an alternative to something like the XL-Desk or Box. I have quite a bit of outboard that I use now in a hybrid setup. It's great to hear your feedback on the 5060. I have seen some criticism of the 5060 not having pan knobs but I think thats because they didn't get what it was all about. The way I use it is this: I have 16 outs from my 2 x Apollo 8's. So I prepare the following 8 stereo bus/groups in Logic: 1. Drums 2. Kick/Snare 3. Bass 4. Vocals (these first 4 go on the stereo inputs with faders. I might adjust the faders while mixing but before bouncing or saving a mix I true-up the level ITB and return the physical fader to 0db) 5. Guitars 6. Keys 7. Other 8. FX Then I use the inserts of the first 4 to run the send (always active) into HW for parallel processing which I return into the last 4 stereo pairs on the 5060 (its 24 channel). I also have the second 4 stereo pairs half normalled on my patch bay between the Apollos and the 5060 in case I want to add some compression to guitars etc ... Then I add silk to taste and on the main insert I might put my Zulu and a Stam SA-4000 for example Because the 5060 runs at +/- 24v the headroom is incredible and I often have to turn down the master fader to avoib clipping the stereo return back into a pair of line ins on an Apollo .. in fact I am looking this week at getting something better that last A/D .. maybe a Dangerous AD+ or a Cranesong HEDD Quantum (any opinions welcome on whether I will really get value for money from better conversion in the last step ). Once I add an A/D though I need a D/A to be able to re-connect back out to hear the final converted mix, especially if there is some extra processing being done in that converter like the two examples I have just given. I have 2 sets of monitors attached and the 5060 is also connected via USB to use as a play/record controller. With logic most but not all of the buttons work. All in all I am delighted with the mixes I am getting and so are clients. I have one recently say that after many years in the biz, my first mix was the closes to a record he had ever heard.... maybe its me ... maybe its the 5060 :-D Feel free to ask anything you would like to know. |
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Post by mikec on May 3, 2019 7:07:50 GMT -6
The 5060 and 5059 are two that I have seriously looked at as an alternative to something like the XL-Desk or Box. I have quite a bit of outboard that I use now in a hybrid setup. It's great to hear your feedback on the 5060. I have seen some criticism of the 5060 not having pan knobs but I think thats because they didn't get what it was all about. The way I use it is this: I have 16 outs from my 2 x Apollo 8's. So I prepare the following 8 stereo bus/groups in Logic: 1. Drums 2. Kick/Snare 3. Bass 4. Vocals (these first 4 go on the stereo inputs with faders. I might adjust the faders while mixing but before bouncing or saving a mix I true-up the level ITB and return the physical fader to 0db) 5. Guitars 6. Keys 7. Other 8. FX Then I use the inserts of the first 4 to run the send (always active) into HW for parallel processing which I return into the last 4 stereo pairs on the 5060 (its 24 channel). I also have the second 4 stereo pairs half normalled on my patch bay between the Apollos and the 5060 in case I want to add some compression to guitars etc ... Then I add silk to taste and on the main insert I might put my Zulu and a Stam SA-4000 for example Because the 5060 runs at +/- 24v the headroom is incredible and I often have to turn down the master fader to avoib clipping the stereo return back into a pair of line ins on an Apollo .. in fact I am looking this week at getting something better that last A/D .. maybe a Dangerous AD+ or a Cranesong HEDD Quantum (any opinions welcome on whether I will really get value for money from better conversion in the last step ). Once I add an A/D though I need a D/A to be able to re-connect back out to hear the final converted mix, especially if there is some extra processing being done in that converter like the two examples I have just given. I have 2 sets of monitors attached and the 5060 is also connected via USB to use as a play/record controller. With logic most but not all of the buttons work. All in all I am delighted with the mixes I am getting and so are clients. I have one recently say that after many years in the biz, my first mix was the closes to a record he had ever heard.... maybe its me ... maybe its the 5060 :-D Feel free to ask anything you would like to know. Thanks for the detail on this. I was wondering about different ways the 5060 could be used. It seems like a great piece of gear and hub for a hybrid setup. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098 
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Post by ericn on May 6, 2019 6:45:27 GMT -6
Every summing system is a console that has features cut out based on somebody else’s workflow / needs.
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Post by barneyrubble on Feb 19, 2024 4:51:33 GMT -6
Soundcaster did you upgrade your a/d stereo convertor going back in the computer after the 5060? Did it make a difference in being able to print 5060 without having to turn the master fader down because of clipping the apollo a/d?
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Post by lowlou on Feb 19, 2024 5:26:17 GMT -6
I got a Speck Electronic Xtramix X6 last month. I recommend it 200% if you can live without faders. In term of features, it punches way above its weight. 20 stereo tracks that you can route to 4 stereo groups and a mixbus. Auxes, inserts on groups (not on tracks) etc. It doesn't have a *sound* (no eq, no comp, clean high headroom), which is not necessarily a bad thing. www.speck.com/xtramix6/xtramix_x6.html |
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Post by sean on Feb 19, 2024 8:52:53 GMT -6
Attachment DeletedI picked up this API The Box with a Sterling Modular Desk and a nice patchbay with Mogami wire and a set of Barefoot MM27 at a crazy price yesterday because one speaker has (I think) a damaged amp and there are a couple issues with the console. I think the previous owner somehow got DC voltage back into the console and it fried some stuff. It’s definitely overkill for my home mixing space, which I pretty intentionally wanted to be solely in the box for remote stuff…but I figured it be worth fixing the problems since what I paid for everything is less than the desk cost and might as well take it as an opportunity to experiment… I love the OdB fader bypass button on the API, what a great idea. And balanced inserts are a bonus. I’m surprised how many transformers and 2520 are in the console. So, maybe it will have a “sound” If not, I’ll put it up for sale once I get it all working. The Barefoots, if I keep them, will be going to the studio. Definitely overkill for the house!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 19, 2024 9:11:47 GMT -6
View AttachmentI picked up this API The Box with a Sterling Modular Desk and a nice patchbay with Mogami wire and a set of Barefoot MM27 at a crazy price yesterday because one speaker has (I think) a damaged amp and there are a couple issues with the console. I think the previous owner somehow got DC voltage back into the console and it fried some stuff. It’s definitely overkill for my home mixing space, which I pretty intentionally wanted to be solely in the box for remote stuff…but I figured it be worth fixing the problems since what I paid for everything is less than the desk cost and might as well take it as an opportunity to experiment… I love the OdB fader bypass button on the API, what a great idea. And balanced inserts are a bonus. I’m surprised how many transformers and 2520 are in the console. So, maybe it will have a “sound” If not, I’ll put it up for sale once I get it all working. The Barefoots, if I keep them, will be going to the studio. Definitely overkill for the house! You’re such a savage man. Love it! |
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Post by sean on Feb 19, 2024 9:49:31 GMT -6
View AttachmentI picked up this API The Box with a Sterling Modular Desk and a nice patchbay with Mogami wire and a set of Barefoot MM27 at a crazy price yesterday because one speaker has (I think) a damaged amp and there are a couple issues with the console. I think the previous owner somehow got DC voltage back into the console and it fried some stuff. It’s definitely overkill for my home mixing space, which I pretty intentionally wanted to be solely in the box for remote stuff…but I figured it be worth fixing the problems since what I paid for everything is less than the desk cost and might as well take it as an opportunity to experiment… I love the OdB fader bypass button on the API, what a great idea. And balanced inserts are a bonus. I’m surprised how many transformers and 2520 are in the console. So, maybe it will have a “sound” If not, I’ll put it up for sale once I get it all working. The Barefoots, if I keep them, will be going to the studio. Definitely overkill for the house! You’re such a savage man. Love it! I was blessed/cursed with a dad who restored vintage motorcycles and cars and grew up going through Auto Trader and car shows with him picking up deals to restore and flip. I just have broken gear instead of broken Mopars 😆 |
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Post by jacobamerritt on Feb 19, 2024 19:41:34 GMT -6
Yes I love having one. I use a new Alice 828…
Actually selling for a nice price in hopes of funding a little IAA sidecar thing. DM if interested.
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Post by javamad on Feb 24, 2024 18:04:46 GMT -6
Soundcaster did you upgrade your a/d stereo convertor going back in the computer after the 5060? Did it make a difference in being able to print 5060 without having to turn the master fader down because of clipping the apollo a/d? Hi, I actually sold the 5060 and went ITB when LUNA got Neve Summing. I was feeling the presdure for speed and recall and I did a bunch of A/B tests, which I am sure were perfectly unscientific :-) But since that moment I haven’t missed summing and I am getting great mixes in LUNA. I spent some of the funds from selling the 5060 on preamps so now I just use line ins on my Apollos and its all UA/API/RND/BAE/Audient .. and it just sounds great without any processing so its a great starting point. |
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