|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 25, 2022 8:49:18 GMT -6
Good question. Btw - I’m sure it’s one of those “you just have to try it” things…but is it really THAT much better than the (a) plug?  obviously people disagree on the answer. Only way I’ll ever know is if I get one and use it myself. I don’t have an unlimited budget, so I’m always trying to balance need and luxury. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
|
Post by ericn on Oct 25, 2022 9:04:25 GMT -6
obviously people disagree on the answer. Only way I’ll ever know is if I get one and use it myself. I don’t have an unlimited budget, so I’m always trying to balance need and luxury. The problem is it’s not hardware is “better” it’s that the really better hardware is expensive. With a rack of old hardware verb’s your also talking about keeping orphaned at one time cutting edge equipment working. |
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Oct 25, 2022 9:21:11 GMT -6
It is unfortunately. I still sold mine because it’s so much money to have tied up in one reverb but it smokes Seventh Heaven head to head 😫 I settled on a PCM 70, 80 & 91, I’m happy but would love to have a Bricasti again one day. I know it’s a question that gets asked over and over and over, but I’ve wondered if I shouldn’t buy a dedicated HW unit for vocals. Like am I going to like that better than the SW plates I currently mostly use? I think a PCM 70 is the best bargain out there for a really lush plate or hall. I actually prefer it over the Bricasti for that. I'm all outboard on my FX: Lexicon PCM 70 Lexicon PCM 80 Lexicon PCM 91 SPX 90ii(pair) TC Electronic D Two(pair) I use the same settings 90% of the time so recall isn't a big problem for me. I know it isn't worth the effort for everyone but I do enjoy it and they just sit in the mix right from the get go and have a width/depth I haven't gotten out of plugins. The further we race towards the bottom though in our industry as far as streaming revenue, etc... I COMPLETELY understand anyone that moves all ITB for convenience and/or finances. The juice is still worth the squeeze for me here, at least for now 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by craigmorris74 on Oct 25, 2022 19:28:52 GMT -6
BTW, Studio a is awesome to run an entire mix thru during mastering. Can REALLY bring things to life. I’m curious how much wet signal you typically add in a mastering situation. |
|
|
|
Post by ab101 on Oct 25, 2022 20:03:02 GMT -6
I know it’s a question that gets asked over and over and over, but I’ve wondered if I shouldn’t buy a dedicated HW unit for vocals. Like am I going to like that better than the SW plates I currently mostly use? I think a PCM 70 is the best bargain out there for a really lush plate or hall. I actually prefer it over the Bricasti for that. I'm all outboard on my FX: Lexicon PCM 70 Lexicon PCM 80 Lexicon PCM 91 SPX 90ii(pair) TC Electronic D Two(pair) I use the same settings 90% of the time so recall isn't a big problem for me. I know it isn't worth the effort for everyone but I do enjoy it and they just sit in the mix right from the get go and have a width/depth I haven't gotten out of plugins. The further we race towards the bottom though in our industry as far as streaming revenue, etc... I COMPLETELY understand anyone that moves all ITB for convenience and/or finances. The juice is still worth the squeeze for me here, at least for now 😁 I seem to recall that the PCM 70 V2 presets were among the best. I never tried it, but apparently some of those great V2 presets can be entered into the V3. |
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Oct 25, 2022 20:47:41 GMT -6
I think a PCM 70 is the best bargain out there for a really lush plate or hall. I actually prefer it over the Bricasti for that. I'm all outboard on my FX: Lexicon PCM 70 Lexicon PCM 80 Lexicon PCM 91 SPX 90ii(pair) TC Electronic D Two(pair) I use the same settings 90% of the time so recall isn't a big problem for me. I know it isn't worth the effort for everyone but I do enjoy it and they just sit in the mix right from the get go and have a width/depth I haven't gotten out of plugins. The further we race towards the bottom though in our industry as far as streaming revenue, etc... I COMPLETELY understand anyone that moves all ITB for convenience and/or finances. The juice is still worth the squeeze for me here, at least for now 😁 I seem to recall that the PCM 70 V2 presets were among the best. I never tried it, but apparently some of those great V2 presets can be entered into the V3. Yeah I have V2 and V3 installed on mine. There is a process somewhere out there I could find again if anyone needed it. You have to download a file and send it over via midi. Not too hard and totally worth it! |
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Oct 25, 2022 21:24:01 GMT -6
BTW, Studio a is awesome to run an entire mix thru during mastering. Can REALLY bring things to life. I’m curious how much wet signal you typically add in a mastering situation. I don't really have a "go-to" mix. I approach each one as it's own thing. I don't always do it, but when I do, it's killer. I'd say max would probably be around 50/50-ish. |
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Oct 26, 2022 11:15:35 GMT -6
obviously people disagree on the answer. Only way I’ll ever know is if I get one and use it myself. I don’t have an unlimited budget, so I’m always trying to balance need and luxury. I remember loving the sound of the chamber at Hyde Street on steel and vox, but even revisiting my own mixes I’m now unsure which was the real thing and which is a plugin on a latter overdub. Bricasti on the master bus is really intriguing to me though. Haven’t found plugins to add much there. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 26, 2022 12:21:28 GMT -6
obviously people disagree on the answer. Only way I’ll ever know is if I get one and use it myself. I don’t have an unlimited budget, so I’m always trying to balance need and luxury. I remember loving the sound of the chamber at Hyde Street on steel and vox, but even revisiting my own mixes I’m now unsure which was the real thing and which is a plugin on a latter overdub. Bricasti on the master bus is really intriguing to me though. Haven’t found plugins to add much there. I think it’s honestly something - I - could live without. Of course, if I had the loot, I’d probably have two…but like I said, balancing budget and return… |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
|
Post by ericn on Oct 26, 2022 13:45:02 GMT -6
I remember loving the sound of the chamber at Hyde Street on steel and vox, but even revisiting my own mixes I’m now unsure which was the real thing and which is a plugin on a latter overdub. Bricasti on the master bus is really intriguing to me though. Haven’t found plugins to add much there. I think it’s honestly something - I - could live without. Of course, if I had the loot, I’d probably have two…but like I said, balancing budget and return… That’s why they used to call us balancing engineers |
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Oct 26, 2022 18:18:01 GMT -6
I remember loving the sound of the chamber at Hyde Street on steel and vox, but even revisiting my own mixes I’m now unsure which was the real thing and which is a plugin on a latter overdub. Bricasti on the master bus is really intriguing to me though. Haven’t found plugins to add much there. I think it’s honestly something - I - could live without. Of course, if I had the loot, I’d probably have two…but like I said, balancing budget and return… Actually just yesterday... (I have to print the Bricasti in Luna to use it ATM due to Luna not having hardware ping stuff) and I used my bricasti as verb as well as "room sound"... and immediately went looking for the price... now I paid 3600 Oz bucks for mine a few years back... they want 6350 now (AUD) !!!!!!!!!!! if you can find one in stock... AYE CARUMBA!!! So I went and listened to the 7th Heaven demos I could find....it doesn't do the same thing.....and I think its no better than the bazillion other ITB verbs etc available. What the Bricasti does.. is place the sound INTO the same environment.. ... where as the plugs... sort of sit behind the original source. Which if important to you once heard.. is a bit tough to live without. I know.... us Bricasti owners can sometimes be evangelical about the box, and that must be a little frustrating to hear.... John, rent one....I was lucky enough to borrow a bricasti from a very generous guy who's studio gear was in storage,... I used it for a year whilst I scrimped and saved for mine.... cheers Wiz |
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Oct 26, 2022 18:28:19 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Oct 26, 2022 18:46:58 GMT -6
I think it’s honestly something - I - could live without. Of course, if I had the loot, I’d probably have two…but like I said, balancing budget and return… Actually just yesterday... (I have to print the Bricasti in Luna to use it ATM due to Luna not having hardware ping stuff) and I used my bricasti as verb as well as "room sound"... and immediately went looking for the price... now I paid 3600 Oz bucks for mine a few years back... they want 6350 now (AUD) !!!!!!!!!!! if you can find one in stock... AYE CARUMBA!!! So I went and listened to the 7th Heaven demos I could find....it doesn't do the same thing.....and I think its no better than the bazillion other ITB verbs etc available. What the Bricasti does.. is place the sound INTO the same environment.. ... where as the plugs... sort of sit behind the original source. Which if important to you once heard.. is a bit tough to live without. I know.... us Bricasti owners can sometimes be evangelical about the box, and that must be a little frustrating to hear.... John, rent one....I was lucky enough to borrow a bricasti from a very generous guy who's studio gear was in storage,... I used it for a year whilst I scrimped and saved for mine.... cheers Wiz I know you are talking to John, but since I’m embedded in his quote please allow me to say, I actually have used a Bricasti before. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 26, 2022 19:27:22 GMT -6
I think it’s honestly something - I - could live without. Of course, if I had the loot, I’d probably have two…but like I said, balancing budget and return… Actually just yesterday... (I have to print the Bricasti in Luna to use it ATM due to Luna not having hardware ping stuff) and I used my bricasti as verb as well as "room sound"... and immediately went looking for the price... now I paid 3600 Oz bucks for mine a few years back... they want 6350 now (AUD) !!!!!!!!!!! if you can find one in stock... AYE CARUMBA!!! So I went and listened to the 7th Heaven demos I could find....it doesn't do the same thing.....and I think its no better than the bazillion other ITB verbs etc available. What the Bricasti does.. is place the sound INTO the same environment.. ... where as the plugs... sort of sit behind the original source. Which if important to you once heard.. is a bit tough to live without. I know.... us Bricasti owners can sometimes be evangelical about the box, and that must be a little frustrating to hear.... John, rent one....I was lucky enough to borrow a bricasti from a very generous guy who's studio gear was in storage,... I used it for a year whilst I scrimped and saved for mine.... cheers Wiz I get what you’re saying. That feeling of not being able to get the vocal to sit in the reverb right is something I definitely feel. Got one coming to try. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
|
Post by ericn on Oct 26, 2022 20:24:16 GMT -6
Actually just yesterday... (I have to print the Bricasti in Luna to use it ATM due to Luna not having hardware ping stuff) and I used my bricasti as verb as well as "room sound"... and immediately went looking for the price... now I paid 3600 Oz bucks for mine a few years back... they want 6350 now (AUD) !!!!!!!!!!! if you can find one in stock... AYE CARUMBA!!! So I went and listened to the 7th Heaven demos I could find....it doesn't do the same thing.....and I think its no better than the bazillion other ITB verbs etc available. What the Bricasti does.. is place the sound INTO the same environment.. ... where as the plugs... sort of sit behind the original source. Which if important to you once heard.. is a bit tough to live without. I know.... us Bricasti owners can sometimes be evangelical about the box, and that must be a little frustrating to hear.... John, rent one....I was lucky enough to borrow a bricasti from a very generous guy who's studio gear was in storage,... I used it for a year whilst I scrimped and saved for mine.... cheers Wiz I get what you’re saying. That feeling of not being able to get the vocal to sit in the reverb right is something I definitely feel. Got one coming to try. From my very limited time with it you will not want to let it go. |
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Oct 26, 2022 21:31:59 GMT -6
Actually just yesterday... (I have to print the Bricasti in Luna to use it ATM due to Luna not having hardware ping stuff) and I used my bricasti as verb as well as "room sound"... and immediately went looking for the price... now I paid 3600 Oz bucks for mine a few years back... they want 6350 now (AUD) !!!!!!!!!!! if you can find one in stock... AYE CARUMBA!!! So I went and listened to the 7th Heaven demos I could find....it doesn't do the same thing.....and I think its no better than the bazillion other ITB verbs etc available. What the Bricasti does.. is place the sound INTO the same environment.. ... where as the plugs... sort of sit behind the original source. Which if important to you once heard.. is a bit tough to live without. I know.... us Bricasti owners can sometimes be evangelical about the box, and that must be a little frustrating to hear.... John, rent one....I was lucky enough to borrow a bricasti from a very generous guy who's studio gear was in storage,... I used it for a year whilst I scrimped and saved for mine.... cheers Wiz I get what you’re saying. That feeling of not being able to get the vocal to sit in the reverb right is something I definitely feel. Got one coming to try. Its quite easy to use in Logic, not so in LUNA. In logic just do like you would with any external hard ware... In LUNA.... create a Stereo track, and set its inputs to what the Bricasti outputs are connected to. Make sure ARM is on , and then set the track to INPUT monitor. This, will make sure the bricasti is time aligned and compensating for latency correctly. My brick is set to inputs and outputs 7-8 on my Apollo. Here is a screen shot of my mixer setup to hopefully help out..  cheers Wiz |
|
|
|
Post by christophert on Oct 27, 2022 4:01:54 GMT -6
I ended up purchasing two Bricastis, as I often used one for a drum space, and always wanted another different space for vocals. As I mainly mix OTB, having two is amazing. The Bricastis have such an amazing 3D image - none of my plug ins ever get the width and realism that I am looking for. I also use spring reverbs often. The Audioscape stereo spring is an amazing reverb that gives me chamber like spaces. Most of the time I am not wanting to hear reverb, I'm hunting realistic environments to place things in. Expensive habit  |
|
|
|
Post by 79sg on Oct 27, 2022 5:22:54 GMT -6
I put off buying one for too many years thinking plugins were good enough. Nope. I have Seventh Heaven Pro and all of the Liquidsonics / Reverb Foundry plugins. They are my favorite reverb plugins but I prefer the hardware by a wide enough margin to not ever think about selling it. Once It was in the rack a few years ago I wished I hadn’t waited. Yes having 2 would be great and one day I will. For me the Bricasti simply works every time. Vocals, guitars, orchestra, mix, etc.
When you decide you are going to keep it be sure to pick up M7 link.
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 27, 2022 10:31:43 GMT -6
Interesting topic. I use UAD's Ocean Way as my room sound first. Only as a reverb, never re-mic. On an Aux track, I EQ the plug-in first, then dial in a slightly different amount for each instrument until I can just barely hear the room. Then I almost always use the Seventh Heaven as my main reverb. London plate works nicely, but now I'll have to try Studio B too.
Cowboycoalminer once send me a demo track he was working on. I sent him a few comments asking about the reverb. It sounded really good, better than the plug-ins I was using. He said it was one of those cheap Lexicon reverbs he got for $80 online. It really made me think about using a hardware reverb again.
|
|
|
|
Post by rob61 on Oct 27, 2022 10:39:24 GMT -6
OK, you convinced me to fire up my Lex 480 again today.
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Oct 30, 2022 5:08:54 GMT -6
I get what you’re saying. That feeling of not being able to get the vocal to sit in the reverb right is something I definitely feel. Got one coming to try. Between sonics, budget and workflow, many of us pick different spots where we have to have hardware, and others where software will do just fine. I'd be interested to know after your demo if the hardware was a must have or if the SW works well enough for you.
Thanks,
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Oct 30, 2022 10:05:41 GMT -6
I don't assign reverb to tracks - I almost always assign reverb to a buss. Then whatever needs it gets sent to that buss. Same thing with echo/delay. I must have done a terrible job of writing my post, since it's at least the second time I get this comment... I don't think I've ever put a reverb ON a track in my whole life  Even if I was mixing a song with only one track, I would put any reverb and echo on aux tracks. Hey, I'm 43! My first recordings were on a Tascam Porta ONE.  My firsts recording (as a "performer", ha ha) was on my dad's Presto home disc cutter. I still have the disk. I said "MICWAFONE!" My first tape was on his mono Concord tale machine. When I started getting my own machines (at the San Jose Flea Market) I started using Vikings. You know, the ones with the "upside-down" transport. I think the good one was the model 88. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Oct 30, 2022 10:10:35 GMT -6
I seem to recall that the PCM 70 V2 presets were among the best. I never tried it, but apparently some of those great V2 presets can be entered into the V3. Yeah I have V2 and V3 installed on mine. There is a process somewhere out there I could find again if anyone needed it. You have to download a file and send it over via midi. Not too hard and totally worth it! I have a PCM90 with upgrade voice card.... |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Oct 30, 2022 10:16:13 GMT -6
I get what you’re saying. That feeling of not being able to get the vocal to sit in the reverb right is something I definitely feel. Got one coming to try. From my very limited time with it you will not want to let it go. I can't afford to rent gear right now. And I don't know anywhere in my local area that would have such a thing to rent. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
|
Post by ericn on Oct 30, 2022 11:43:51 GMT -6
Yeah I have V2 and V3 installed on mine. There is a process somewhere out there I could find again if anyone needed it. You have to download a file and send it over via midi. Not too hard and totally worth it! I have a PCM90 with upgrade voice card.... I had all the demo cards for both the 80 and 90 that disappeared, of course the 81 and 91 have all the card programs included. |
|
Even if I was mixing a song with only one track, I would put any reverb and echo on aux tracks. Hey, I'm 43! My first recordings were on a Tascam Porta ONE. 