kasroc
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by kasroc on Jan 18, 2019 7:52:36 GMT -6
Wanted to make a new thread for Schoeps M221b users and your experiences!
Last night I tried one from my pair on vocals. Switched out the standard Akg c414 for the Schoeps. I know these mics are not commonly used for vox, but I had to try as it’s been on my mind. Man, what a difference. The level of detail in these mics is surreal. The Akg fails in comparison and is so bland and neutral. I will be using the Schoeps until I land a 47 or perhaps a Bock 251.
Really, the only issue is you have to sing straight on point in cardiod. Switching to omni is very cool too if you have a nice room. Surprising!
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kasroc
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by kasroc on Jan 18, 2019 12:32:07 GMT -6
Anyone else try it on vocals or am I the only one? 😂
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Post by spindrift on Jan 18, 2019 23:12:16 GMT -6
You’re doing it wrong...you’re only supposed to use them on acoustic guitars.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 18, 2019 23:28:54 GMT -6
Seriously though, my pair are relatively new to me and I’ve only used them on acoustic guitars...with great success I might add.
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kasroc
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by kasroc on Jan 19, 2019 7:42:37 GMT -6
Hey, like I said overheads on drums. Perfection.
When you don’t have a top of the line vocal mic and only some rare vintage pencil mics with the 701 tube you make do and try it. Seriously sounds better than that Akg. I’m not crazy yet 😜
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,005
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Post by ericn on Jan 19, 2019 22:28:55 GMT -6
It’s been stated here many times, SDC’s can be excellent vocal mics. Because of fashion many think a vocal mic has to have a large diaphragm.
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kasroc
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by kasroc on Jan 20, 2019 7:52:01 GMT -6
Thanks, Eric! You kinda feel silly singing in such a small mic, but I currently can’t beat that sound. The way these mics roll off the highs so naturally is wonderful. With the Akg I was dialing back the high end on my 33115 pre. Not the case with the Schoeps. Sounds great right out of the gate.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 20, 2019 15:57:30 GMT -6
Thanks, Eric! You kinda feel silly singing in such a small mic, but I currently can’t beat that sound. The way these mics roll off the highs so naturally is wonderful. With the Akg I was dialing back the high end on my 33115 pre. Not the case with the Schoeps. Sounds great right out of the gate. If it makes you feel less silly our Beard of Audio Knowledge will poke is head in at some point and tell you how often Motown used Neumann SDC’s for vocals. Also don’t forget that new Art Decco Schoeps vocal mic is an SDC. First rule of Audio Neve knock what works!
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Post by roundbadge on Jan 20, 2019 16:41:16 GMT -6
221’s rule I use my km56’s on vocals too Good stuff!
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Post by m03 on Mar 27, 2019 19:50:41 GMT -6
Bump. I've got a couple of these on the way. Does anyone know of a retailer that still has the plastic/acrylic phase rings in stock for the M934B capsules? Apparently they could still be ordered from Schoeps until somewhat recently (according to old posts I found on other forums, anyway).
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 27, 2019 20:39:35 GMT -6
Bump. I've got a couple of these on the way. Does anyone know of a retailer that still has the plastic/acrylic phase rings in stock for the M934B capsules? Apparently they could still be ordered from Schoeps until somewhat recently (according to old posts I found on other forums, anyway). Good luck, might try Trew Audio otherwise it’s 3D printer time!
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Post by damoongo on Apr 21, 2019 13:10:20 GMT -6
Bump. I've got a couple of these on the way. Does anyone know of a retailer that still has the plastic/acrylic phase rings in stock for the M934B capsules? Apparently they could still be ordered from Schoeps until somewhat recently (according to old posts I found on other forums, anyway). Did you manage to find a source for the Schoeps phase rings for m221b? I too am on the hunt...
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Post by m03 on Apr 21, 2019 15:22:22 GMT -6
Bump. I've got a couple of these on the way. Does anyone know of a retailer that still has the plastic/acrylic phase rings in stock for the M934B capsules? Apparently they could still be ordered from Schoeps until somewhat recently (according to old posts I found on other forums, anyway). Did you manage to find a source for the Schoeps phase rings for m221b? I too am on the hunt... Drefahl has replica phase rings @ €29 each, but he's currently waiting on the next production run to be completed (as of this past week, mid-April 2019). Sounds like it might be a few weeks before they're ready. You can email to get on the wait list: info@drefahlaudio.com
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Post by damoongo on Apr 21, 2019 19:20:15 GMT -6
Did you manage to find a source for the Schoeps phase rings for m221b? I too am on the hunt... Drefahl has replica phase rings @ €29 each, but he's currently waiting on the next production run to be completed (as of this past week, mid-April 2019). Sounds like it might be a few weeks before they're ready. You can email to get on the wait list: info@drefahlaudio.com Thank you!
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Post by m03 on Apr 21, 2019 20:44:02 GMT -6
Anyone have scans of the original manuals for the M221 (A, B, F, Schoeps, Telefunken, Siemens, ORTF, etc)? I've done English, German, and French language searches with a variety of terms, but I haven't managed to dig up any scans, and I couldn't find any old manuals for sale anywhere.
There seem to be mixed reports as to what circumstances the phase rings were intended to be used...I've seen ~15 year old posts referring to them alternately as "cardioid rings", and as "omni rings". They are mentioned in US patent 2852620, but the usage isn't detailed other than describing the general function of the ring:
"An additional feature of the present invention is the use of the annular member 20 mounted on the front end of the microphone. The member 20 provides a sound detour path for the sound waves to insure that the proper relation of the phases exists between the sound waves passing through the air delay means and by other sound waves reaching the microphone."
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Post by damoongo on Apr 21, 2019 20:54:43 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure they are only necessary for cardiod, and on all except 943c capsules. When in omni, I believe they act as a standard pressure omni and don't need the rings.
I would ask Bernhard Vollmer who can still be contacted at support@schoeps.zendesk.com. In an earlier email exchange he stated: "You will need the phase ring for the right directivity in the cardioid position but we cannot supply them anymore"
Please let me know what he says!
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Post by m03 on Apr 23, 2019 11:24:50 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure they are only necessary for cardiod, and on all except 943c capsules. When in omni, I believe they act as a standard pressure omni and don't need the rings. Thanks for the tip. Schoeps / Vollmer was able to provide me with scans of a Telefunken manual for the M221, which I was also unfortunately requested to not duplicate. Regardless, it refers to the "phase ring" as the "shutter guide". It also confirms that the shutter guide is required in cardioid (in order the get the rearward rejection), but it states that it is optional in omni, and it shifts the top-end peak in omni (for sources directly in front of the capsule) from around 12.5k without it to around 8k with it installed.
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Post by cyrano on Apr 23, 2019 11:46:23 GMT -6
It’s been stated here many times, SDC’s can be excellent vocal mics. Because of fashion many think a vocal mic has to have a large diaphragm. In opera, you'll hardly ever see LDC's. And they often use omni's about a meter from the talent...
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Post by damoongo on Jul 5, 2019 0:03:24 GMT -6
Update: Got the new replica phase rings for my m221’s from Peter Drefal. Perfect fit! Attachments:
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Post by M57 on Jul 5, 2019 4:30:28 GMT -6
In opera, you'll hardly ever see LDC's. On the one hand, it makes sense because LDCs just sound larger than life (for better or worse), and in the classical world "actual size" is preferred, but I always wondered if it's also because of the performance optics and mechanics. Not that classical singers don't know how to use mic technique these days, but rather that it's simply not feasible to use them. Opera is acting while singing, and acting means moving around. Even if you're standing still, you're constantly fighting the singing/talking head syndrome and you don't get to hold a microphone. Sorry about going a bit OT, but your comment just got me thinking.
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Post by Ward on Jul 5, 2019 7:31:33 GMT -6
So, the 221 doesn't sound like a pinched nose? My experiences with various sheps have not been pleasant.
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Post by reddirt on Jul 6, 2019 20:45:48 GMT -6
You can only go on your experience - can't tell you what model Schoeps it was but my experience through Nagra pres was they sounded truly real and allowed all the subtleties such as the sound of the room to be beautifully present. Should have done a KM 84 comparison for future reference but was so enamoured of the Schoeps , comparisons seemed redundant. Mics of the upper echelon for sure. Cheers, Ross
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Post by Ward on Jul 8, 2019 17:26:44 GMT -6
You can only go on your experience - can't tell you what model Schoeps it was but my experience through Nagra pres was they sounded truly real and allowed all the subtleties such as the sound of the room to be beautifully present. Should have done a KM 84 comparison for future reference but was so enamoured of the Schoeps , comparisons seemed redundant. Mics of the upper echelon for sure. Cheers, Ross Oddly enough, it was using a Nagra with the Schoeps that really turned me off . . . the way it treated room tones never appealed to me. But that's just me!
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Post by damoongo on Jul 8, 2019 21:47:15 GMT -6
So, the 221 doesn't sound like a pinched nose? My experiences with various sheps have not been pleasant. My m221’s sound a lot like my km56 but a slightly softer top. Bold low end and still sparkly up high, but not so airy as their Neumann counterpart. (Both are based around ac701.)
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Post by spindrift on Jul 8, 2019 23:58:55 GMT -6
So, the 221 doesn't sound like a pinched nose? My experiences with various sheps have not been pleasant. My m221’s sound a lot like my km56 but a slightly softer top. Bold low end and still sparkly up high, but not so airy as their Neumann counterpart. (Both are based around ac701.) Ward The acoustic guitar in that country video I posted was tracked with an X/Y pair of 221b and M934b capsules in cardioid.
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