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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2014 20:48:28 GMT -6
The UAD 610 collection made me think about the real things. I've demo'd the Mercury V76/72's before - been years ago, though. Thought they were fine. Never used the Fearn stuff or the LaChapelle stuff. Love to try the Thermionic pres too. Anybody a tube pre aficionado? littlesicily, don't you have the tube LaChapelle 500? Thoughts? I believe Scott LaChapelle is now here just down the street from me...I bought a pair of Focal Twins from him a couple of years ago...If I still have his email, maybe he can come over and give some thoughts. |
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Post by matt on Feb 20, 2014 21:33:44 GMT -6
I have lusted on the 992 for a while now, mostly because it has a killer reputation, and likely gets hot: 992This into a STA, and I imagine you would be done. And that's a good thing. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 20, 2014 21:35:02 GMT -6
You love the sound of the Helios Type 69 and Heritage 1073's. I doubt you'd be satisfied with tube press. They are very warm and mat sounding. Hi Fi even. But practically every tube pre I ever used was lack luster. There not going to "do" anything for you per say but maybe add some compression characteristics to the signal. That Sta Level you got beats any tube pre on planet earth for that so your not missing anything IMO.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2014 22:14:46 GMT -6
Yeah - I agree. I would think a tube mic into a tube pre into a sta would just be kind of a cloudy tub of goo. Honestly, there are times when the sta is even too much of a good thing. (Will he sell it and get another 176? Damn...it did sound good) I demo'd a 610 one time and didn't care for it at all.
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Post by littlesicily on Feb 20, 2014 22:30:25 GMT -6
LaChapell 583s (500 series) is amazing! One of my favorite preamps, period.
Fearn- was really nice but ehh...sometimes too much and I wasn't into the super hi-fi thing.
UA 610- cool for bass and some gtrs, not my 1st choice for most things.
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Post by svart on Feb 20, 2014 22:31:13 GMT -6
The UAD 610mkii can be made into a great preamp.. www.foxaudioresearch.ca/LA610.htm but otherwise is just so-so. I had a Gyraf G9 and I sold it, but now I really wish I had it back. It was nice. |
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Post by popmann on Feb 20, 2014 22:45:47 GMT -6
I have an original LA610 (silver version)...NOS tubes.
Have used a number of tube pres over the years...they range a LOT...it's like asking what a tube guitar amp sounds like. A JCM800 and Twin and Mesa and AC30 share almost nothing sonically. Some are utterly sterile...some can be driven in obvious and less obvious ways...I would disagree they're matte....that is, IMO, the sonic signature of transformers. That said--again, a Demeter tube preamp will sound more like a reference transformerless "color free" (sic) circuit than a vintage transformer design. It's not MORE colored...it's LESS colored. I'm nota fan...for me, it's in that uncanny valley...where it's not overtly colored (like the vintage transformer things), but it's also not straight wire kind of gain...
I had many transformer based vintage style (though mostly not real vintage) preamps over the years. None stayed. Just not my bag. I would have hard time giving up my LA610. I've considered replacing it with a RedDI....as the two things it's the goto are EP and bass DI. But, it's also the second best rock guitar pre I've ever used. That's actually why it stayed, grand scheme--it was "second best" at everything. Which sounds like that's not cool...but, nothing else was first best at more than ONE thing...you know? Like I loved the Great River for lead vocals. All day. LA610...second best. I loved 512c pres for amps with dynamic mics--LA610 second best. RedDI for bass DI...LA610 second. So, as vintage vibes go...it was wa single unit that did almost as well as my favorites.
But as much as people talk shit about that preamp being a distortion box, etc...gain staged properly, IMO, it's a more natural sounding pre than most of the 70s era transformer designs. Obviously YMMV. But, other than maybe softening of transients...I don't think there's a "tube sound" so much as a lack of sonic signature...and being a component that is FAR more non linear than others...so, they have more variance per tube and how the tube is used in the circuit, etc...
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Post by svart on Feb 20, 2014 22:49:53 GMT -6
I think a Red47 clone is in my future at some point.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 21, 2014 0:36:36 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 21, 2014 4:52:17 GMT -6
The UAD 610mkii can be made into a great preamp.. www.foxaudioresearch.ca/LA610.htm but otherwise is just so-so. I had a Gyraf G9 and I sold it, but now I really wish I had it back. It was nice. I have 2 G9 500 tube pres under construction, I think matkat may be closer to finished on his pair, they only work under the 51x format though... 24v, I'm interested in chapels 583 though! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2014 8:12:54 GMT -6
haven't even ordered a single part for my pair of builds. A few years ago, i was at a GroupDIY hang with a bunch of NYCers, and the guy who makes PCBs under the Guavatone name brought in his Orange86 tube preamp clone. it sounded AWESOME on my sax, when paired with this other designer's DAOC.
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Post by geoff738 on Feb 21, 2014 8:28:09 GMT -6
I have the little ART thingey. Does that count?
Makes a decent paperweight.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by jsteiger on Feb 21, 2014 8:35:00 GMT -6
I have one under construction. It's about 96% done. The story of my life for my own gear.....  |
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Post by matt on Feb 21, 2014 8:59:52 GMT -6
You love the sound of the Helios Type 69 and Heritage 1073's. I doubt you'd be satisfied with tube press. They are very warm and mat sounding. Hi Fi even. But practically every tube pre I ever used was lack luster. There not going to "do" anything for you per say but maybe add some compression characteristics to the signal. That Sta Level you got beats any tube pre on planet earth for that so your not missing anything IMO. Yes, I can see this being the case. I have never had the opportunity to go all-tube for a signal chain, and am certainly happy with my current Ventura > STA setup, so it is not a priority for me. All-tube might be an interesting experiment on Bass guitar DI. |
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Post by wreck on Feb 21, 2014 9:08:57 GMT -6
I had a 2-610 - swapped out tubes - telefunk, sylvania, chinese, etc. The sound changed. The gain changed. It clearly compressed the vocal. It was visibly noticeable on the waves forms. In the end, it just didn't give me "good" character. Very happy I sold them and bought a couple VP312s. The high end on the 312s is really nice to have. Sometimes the VP26/28 gets a little too nasty with my vocalist when I try to get that high end smooth. I don't see myself ever buying another tube pre.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 21, 2014 10:14:53 GMT -6
The VP312's get overlooked. Really great pres.
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Post by Randge on Feb 21, 2014 11:31:30 GMT -6
You might be surprised. I use lots of tube gear in series all the time. The gain staging is of utmost importance. However, quality tube gear will give you the sweetest and clearest top end. Second and third order harmonics will open a signal up in such a great way. You might need to look at the input on your converters and back those down to find the sweet spot with your tube gear.
R
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Post by dandeurloo on Feb 21, 2014 12:04:11 GMT -6
Good tube gear is usually really clean. Not chunky and tubby sounding like some of the lower end tube gear I have used. When you drive high end tube gear the saturation sounds even better. I have found so much has to do with component choices. I have been working on a stereo tube preamp/line driver. Its on rev 3 now. It's sounding pretty great. I love it in line level on synths and drums and bass. I also have one of these that get no love anywhere but they are really great. Extremely high end build and great tone. More people need to check these out. www.mark-o-matic.com/mpag-1d.html |
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Post by littlesicily on Feb 21, 2014 16:58:54 GMT -6
Not to beat a dead horse, but if you've not tried the LaChapell 583s Tube pre...you're doing yourself a disservice.
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Tube Pres
Feb 21, 2014 19:37:52 GMT -6
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 21, 2014 19:37:52 GMT -6
You love the sound of the Helios Type 69 and Heritage 1073's. I doubt you'd be satisfied with tube press. They are very warm and mat sounding. Hi Fi even. But practically every tube pre I ever used was lack luster. There not going to "do" anything for you per say but maybe add some compression characteristics to the signal. That Sta Level you got beats any tube pre on planet earth for that so your not missing anything IMO. Yes, I can see this being the case. I have never had the opportunity to go all-tube for a signal chain, and am certainly happy with my current Ventura > STA setup, so it is not a priority for me. All-tube might be an interesting experiment on Bass guitar DI. It is great for bass Matt. I've ran bass through the 737 into the Sta using both comps and it's a fat, creamy bass sound. The 737 is a fine tube unit. The eq being the star of the show. I run a lot of things into it line in just for the eq. |
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Tube Pres
Feb 21, 2014 19:46:08 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 21, 2014 19:46:08 GMT -6
Yes, I can see this being the case. I have never had the opportunity to go all-tube for a signal chain, and am certainly happy with my current Ventura > STA setup, so it is not a priority for me. All-tube might be an interesting experiment on Bass guitar DI. It is great for bass Matt. I've ran bass through the 737 into the Sta using both comps and it's a fat, creamy bass sound. The 737 is a fine tube unit. The eq being the star of the show. I run a lot of things into it line in just for the eq. I'm also a fan on the 737 eq. I really dig it for snare. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2014 20:35:47 GMT -6
The 610 is one of my favorite mic preamps I've ever heard on guitars. It would be my first choice for distorted guitars. Best chain I ever got was a 421 into a 610 into an RNC into an RNLA. Don't sleep on the RNLA if you're a hardware guy, it's a great sounding compressor.
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Post by popmann on Feb 22, 2014 21:22:18 GMT -6
Yeah, since we do like to bash the purple site here...I think Dave Darling finally had enough after noobs taking him to task about using a 2-610 for all Egtrs...he said he's had a 57 and a 121 like hardwired into one forever...and he had people jumping on him about it being such a shitty preamp, blah blah....cause I'm SURE they know better than him how to record guitars. Not that he's EVER recorded huge rock records or anything....
I joke about how I still have the LA610 after having SO many other preamps through here over the years....but, it's because it's ALWAYS second best....at EVERYTHING....but, "First best"--were all DIFFERENT units...I'd love to have kept the Great River just for vocals...and the RedDI just for bass DI....and a 512c or two for amps or snare drum...the Millenias for acoustics....but, I ended up with the Millenias and the LA610. And, really don't "want for" any preamps for overdubs.
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Post by Randge on Feb 22, 2014 21:35:39 GMT -6
I have tried the LaChapell pre with eq but having compared it with my Edwards Audio pres and my Telefunken V-72's, they just didn't hold up for what I was looking for. They sure didn't sound bad, but they didn't have that thing I was hoping that they did. I ended up buying a mono and stereo preamp from Edwards Audio instead. These are great preamps if anyone is looking. edwardspreamp.com/R |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Feb 22, 2014 22:42:07 GMT -6
Cal Harris told me when he was assisting at Western Recorders, Chuck Britz avoided the Universal console as much as he could. If they were using a ribbon for lead vocal, he used an Ampex mixer and a U47 was plugged right into the input of the limiter.
The preamp of choice during the late '50s, early '60s was the Langevin. We had six at Motown and at RCA and Bradley here each three track console had 12 of them. Columbia Records used them too. They didn't sound at all like today's boutique tube preamps.
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