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Post by keymod on Dec 28, 2018 6:38:29 GMT -6
Is it considered good practice to normalize tracks before starting a mix? If so, any suggestions as to what level? Does normalizing help with signal-to-noise ratio? What are the benefits?
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Post by pope on Dec 28, 2018 7:01:35 GMT -6
I never normalize prior to mixing. I just use "trim" to bring the tracks at the desired levels. It won't help NSR in a ITB situation. I can't see any benefit really but that's just me
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Post by stormymondays on Dec 28, 2018 7:12:20 GMT -6
No benefit at all normalizing the tracks. Use a gain plugin if you need to bring the level up. Current "best practice" (quotes intended!!!) is to mix at a level equivalent to 0VU analog, whatever that is in your particular system, and especially if you are using any analog emulation plugins. A Klanghelm VUMT deluxe sits on top of all my tracks: klanghelm.com/contents/products/VUMT/VUMT.php
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Post by keymod on Dec 28, 2018 7:22:14 GMT -6
So what is the difference between normalize and adding gain?
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Post by stormymondays on Dec 28, 2018 7:44:17 GMT -6
So what is the difference between normalize and adding gain? No difference.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 7:46:54 GMT -6
So what is the difference between normalize and adding gain? Normalize is usually done as a one off, destructive process, whereas Gain/Trim/Attenuate is usually a non-destructive control you can adjust in real time. Otherwise, no real difference. No need to Normalize before mixing, in my view. The volume balance adjustment is all part of the mix and changes as the mix comes together. If you are recording in 24 bit with conservative levels it should all come together easily without having to normalize anything.
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Post by spradingaling on Dec 28, 2018 9:06:25 GMT -6
I'll batch normalize after I import tracks into a template, but that's only so I know the audio is gain staged properly right off the bat. If I'm starting a mix from scratch then it doesn't really matter to me.
**EDIT**
I'll normalize to -9dBFS when I do. Seems like it's a decent enough sweet spot.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 28, 2018 9:09:00 GMT -6
I mostly mix what I track, so I generally have the levels set where I want them. Usually, if I mix something I didn’t track, I’m stuck pulling gain down so I’m not slamming the input to outboard gear or plugins.
Normalizing is generally the exact opposite of what I need to do.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2018 9:36:08 GMT -6
I mostly mix what I track, so I generally have the levels set where I want them. Usually, if I mix something I didn’t track, I’m stuck pulling gain down so I’m not slamming the input to outboard gear or plugins. Normalizing is generally the exact opposite of what I need to do. You can normalize to any level you want though. Normalizing to -18 or something could actually be a cool trick to get levels in check to start. I might give it a crack when I get something out of whack.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 28, 2018 9:50:46 GMT -6
Since it’s purely peak related you get wildly different outcomes across different types of sources.
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Normalize
Dec 28, 2018 10:17:19 GMT -6
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Post by mulmany on Dec 28, 2018 10:17:19 GMT -6
You can peak or rms normalize in PT. I used rms normalization alot when I was doing post. Now I just use clip gain.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 10:26:48 GMT -6
Yeah, the only time I have done something a bit like this is when putting DJ mixes together, linear arrangement style (i.e. not live). In that case, I will normalize all the selected tracks to -20dB LUFS integrated (far better than VU, peak or RMS for perceived loudness, RX7 Advanced excels at this) before starting the mix, that way most of the tracks are already in the ballpark with similar perceived loudness and no overs, and usually only minimal gain tweaks are needed.
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Post by pope on Dec 28, 2018 10:37:39 GMT -6
Correct me if I'm wrong but by normalizing every single track all you achieve is to double the size of the project for no apparent reason.
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Normalize
Dec 28, 2018 11:30:21 GMT -6
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Post by mulmany on Dec 28, 2018 11:30:21 GMT -6
Correct me if I'm wrong but by normalizing every single track all you achieve is to double the size of the project for no apparent reason. In a post environment, you would consolidate your session to only include the finished session that would be imported to the mix.
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Post by spradingaling on Dec 28, 2018 11:41:22 GMT -6
Correct me if I'm wrong but by normalizing every single track all you achieve is to double the size of the project for no apparent reason. It doesn't appear to do that in Cubase. It looks like it's analyzing the audio and using the clip gain to set the normalization level to whatever you want. I could very well be wrong, though. **EDIT** Turns out it creates a new folder called "Edits" where all the new normalized files live. That's dumb, I think my way is much more efficient. Oh well
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Post by Blackdawg on Dec 28, 2018 12:39:04 GMT -6
This seems unnecessary considering you can adjust clip gain in almost every major daw very easily in a non destructive way.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 28, 2018 15:38:35 GMT -6
You can peak or rms normalize in PT. I used rms normalization alot when I was doing post. Now I just use clip gain. Ah. If you chose RMS, what does it do with peaks? Analyze and tell you what the max permissible RMS is based on all the peaks, or does it in some cases put them into clipping territory?
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Normalize
Dec 28, 2018 15:49:56 GMT -6
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Post by mulmany on Dec 28, 2018 15:49:56 GMT -6
You can peak or rms normalize in PT. I used rms normalization alot when I was doing post. Now I just use clip gain. Ah. If you chose RMS, what does it do with peaks? Analyze and tell you what the max permissible RMS is based on all the peaks, or does it in some cases put them into clipping territory? Its been a while, but I believe it would clip if you gave it an incorrect value.
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Normalize
Dec 28, 2018 17:45:56 GMT -6
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Post by christopher on Dec 28, 2018 17:45:56 GMT -6
Back when protools was new, I assume the guys slinging protools taught engineers the super cool new things like normalize, & manually using autotune. And the buyers took it and ran. So I’m pretty sure for at least a few years, in at least a few major facilities, normalize was standard practice and to be done immmediately after each take. Source: guy who taught me to always normalize and immediately fix takes with autotune worked at major facility. I.e.. always do both before you even listen back! Moral: I didn’t do as he said, no wonder I’m broke.
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Post by svart on Dec 28, 2018 19:54:49 GMT -6
Normalize is just automated level adjustment to an arbitrary value you determine.
You can normalize to a peak value, or an rms one. You can tell it to limit the peaks that go over if you normalize by RMS upwards.
I typically normalize using peak values on all tracks, that way the levels hitting my outboard great are similar all the time.
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Post by Ward on Dec 28, 2018 20:04:31 GMT -6
a colossal waste of time when a gain trim will achieve the same results when absolutely needed but in a non-destructive manner.
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Post by svart on Dec 28, 2018 20:09:08 GMT -6
a colossal waste of time when a gain trim will achieve the same results when absolutely needed but in a non-destructive manner. I don't know about PT, but in reaper it's a 2 key stroke, then a 3 key stroke and is done for all tracks
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Post by EmRR on Dec 28, 2018 20:21:22 GMT -6
Normalize is just automated level adjustment to an arbitrary value you determine. You can normalize to a peak value, or an rms one. You can tell it to limit the peaks that go over if you normalize by RMS upwards. I typically normalize using peak values on all tracks, that way the levels hitting my outboard great are similar all the time. Historically 'normalize' was purely in reference to peak levels within a selection. Neither DP nor RX7 normalize options do anything other than reference absolute peak within a selection. DP will only make the highest peak value equal to 0dBFS. RX7 will let you pick the peak reference level. In DP it's a destructive process.
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Post by Ward on Dec 28, 2018 20:51:09 GMT -6
a colossal waste of time when a gain trim will achieve the same results when absolutely needed but in a non-destructive manner. I don't know about PT, but in reaper it's a 2 key stroke, then a 3 key stroke and is done for all tracks Ok . . . a collosal waste of energy, because it is a destructive process that accomplishes nothing that a non-destructive infinitely adjustable and changeable process better achieves.
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Post by svart on Dec 28, 2018 21:47:23 GMT -6
I don't know about PT, but in reaper it's a 2 key stroke, then a 3 key stroke and is done for all tracks Ok . . . a collosal waste of energy, because it is a destructive process that accomplishes nothing that a non-destructive infinitely adjustable and changeable process better achieves. It's non-destructive in reaper..
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