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Post by guitfiddler on Nov 27, 2018 5:20:04 GMT -6
OK - I really am schizophrenic. I've tracked two songs the last two days with the Kemper...and it's just sooooo easy. And ultimately, the profiles DO sound different. Like I said above, I'm guilty of tweaking everything to sound like a 67 Deluxe lol. And then I go on a message board and complain about everything sounding the same. I'm starting to really figure out the nuances of electric guitar in production - i.e., it's how the amps fit into the entire mix...not just "I'm going to tweak this until it sounds killer by itself." Annnnyway. I can't sell it. The UAD stuff DOES sound fantastic. But the more I thought about putting more money into the UAD amps, the more I thought about never being able to get my money back. At least with this, I have a piece of HW that (currently) has some value. So, I'm about-facing. And, you can sell and re-buy again! and again! and again! and yet another time! Lol I think we are all guilty of this! I'm currently revisiting old gear I used to own and sold. I really like mine!
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Post by Ward on Nov 27, 2018 7:17:50 GMT -6
It's so close . . .
But I'll keep using the real thing for now.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Nov 27, 2018 7:39:11 GMT -6
OK - I really am schizophrenic. I've tracked two songs the last two days with the Kemper...and it's just sooooo easy. And ultimately, the profiles DO sound different. Like I said above, I'm guilty of tweaking everything to sound like a 67 Deluxe lol. And then I go on a message board and complain about everything sounding the same. I'm starting to really figure out the nuances of electric guitar in production - i.e., it's how the amps fit into the entire mix...not just "I'm going to tweak this until it sounds killer by itself." Annnnyway. I can't sell it. The UAD stuff DOES sound fantastic. But the more I thought about putting more money into the UAD amps, the more I thought about never being able to get my money back. At least with this, I have a piece of HW that (currently) has some value. So, I'm about-facing. The thing with the Kemper is how easy it is to get within inches of a plethora of amps, if your trying to tune everything to sound like a 67 deluxe is it worth it? Well it sure as hell is easier to lug around than a old Fender, no need to worry about tubes and if you have a sudden Marshall craving it’s there at your finger tips.
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Post by guitfiddler on Nov 27, 2018 8:19:34 GMT -6
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Post by mikec on Nov 27, 2018 8:34:32 GMT -6
I have the Kemper power head and have it hooked up to a Mission Engineering cabinet for playing live and also to my patchbay for recording direct. I like that I can get a live sound I like and it pretty much translates exactly the way it sounded live when I record it into Pro Tools. I still love the sound of a good tube amp mic'ed with a Royer and SM57, but it takes a lot more time for me to set up to get a recorded sound that sounds like what I hear live from the amp. Nevertheless, I love having the option because some times I really want to dig in and take the time to move the amp and mics around until I get exactly what I want, other times I just want to turn on the Kemper, arm a track or two, and just start recording.
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Post by longscale on Nov 28, 2018 21:12:47 GMT -6
OK - I really am schizophrenic. I've tracked two songs the last two days with the Kemper...and it's just sooooo easy. And ultimately, the profiles DO sound different. Like I said above, I'm guilty of tweaking everything to sound like a 67 Deluxe lol. And then I go on a message board and complain about everything sounding the same. I'm starting to really figure out the nuances of electric guitar in production - i.e., it's how the amps fit into the entire mix...not just "I'm going to tweak this until it sounds killer by itself." Annnnyway. I can't sell it. The UAD stuff DOES sound fantastic. But the more I thought about putting more money into the UAD amps, the more I thought about never being able to get my money back. At least with this, I have a piece of HW that (currently) has some value. So, I'm about-facing. wrt nuances of electric guitar production. One thing I started to do was to really shape my profiles to get the result I wanted. Seems simple. Perhaps I'm thick. I started profiling by wanting to get a huge guitar tone that sounded like the amp. Then I realized - hold on - what if I shape the profile such that I get something to sound close to what I want in a mix right up front. Simple idea, light bulb moment...works for me. Now my profiles are still my guitars and amps, but perhaps shaped differently than a goal of sounding just like the amp in the room. For a live setup - I would have donated a kidney for this tech instead of hauling around two amps and cursing when the power sucked and they sounded different. Now you can give an artist a USB stick with all the sounds you used for whatever you recorded for them. They can tour with the profile of the sound that made the record. Pure gold imo.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 28, 2018 21:50:19 GMT -6
What does wrt mean? I DO think there are nuances of guitar production
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Post by wiz on Nov 28, 2018 22:23:29 GMT -6
What does wrt mean? I DO think there are nuances of guitar production with respect to
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Post by longscale on Nov 28, 2018 22:31:40 GMT -6
Sorry for the shorthand. Yeah I got that you do think there are nuances. I was agreeing with you, but trying to pluck out that topic from the quote. I don't seem to know how to chop it up more for posting.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 28, 2018 22:36:28 GMT -6
Instead of “nuances” I probably should have said “a lot that I have to learn.”
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 29, 2018 8:45:26 GMT -6
Instead of “nuances” I probably should have said “a lot that I have to learn.” The room, the room the room! As an old live guy who spent years trying to get decent amp tones, the secret isn’t what happens within 12 inches of the speaker it’s what the room brings to the party.
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Post by guitfiddler on Nov 29, 2018 10:27:48 GMT -6
Instead of “nuances” I probably should have said “a lot that I have to learn.” The room, the room the room! As an old live guy who spent years trying to get decent amp tones, the secret isn’t what happens within 12 inches of the speaker it’s what the room brings to the party. So what Ericn is saying, for all you guys that have a sucky room. Use your UAD Oceanway plugin! Lol
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 29, 2018 11:29:49 GMT -6
The room, the room the room! As an old live guy who spent years trying to get decent amp tones, the secret isn’t what happens within 12 inches of the speaker it’s what the room brings to the party. So what Ericn is saying, for all you guys that have a sucky room. Use your UAD Oceanway plugin! Lol Lexicon 300 or Yamaha proR3 here but even the best plugin or hardware can’t give the energy of a celstion breaking up and throwing it into even a crappy room.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 29, 2018 11:38:17 GMT -6
Instead of “nuances” I probably should have said “a lot that I have to learn.” The room, the room the room! As an old live guy who spent years trying to get decent amp tones, the secret isn’t what happens within 12 inches of the speaker it’s what the room brings to the party. So then, just like real estate, it’s all about “Location! Location! Location!”
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 29, 2018 11:40:08 GMT -6
Oh, and dammit!! I had ruled out the Kemper, but you guys are making me rethink things. Grrrrrrrrr.
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Post by notneeson on Nov 29, 2018 12:04:22 GMT -6
Instead of “nuances” I probably should have said “a lot that I have to learn.” The room, the room the room! As an old live guy who spent years trying to get decent amp tones, the secret isn’t what happens within 12 inches of the speaker it’s what the room brings to the party. I think I posted about this already, but I had the same thought recording an SG>DS1>JCM900 at Hyde Street earlier this year. The room was everything special about the tones we got.
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Post by matt on Nov 29, 2018 14:08:26 GMT -6
I had ruled out the Kemper, but you guys are making me rethink things Mark, I'll offer some counterpoint. I bought a Kemper earlier this year and have yet to warm up to it. I recorded some med-gain dirty guitars using a highly tweaked profile off the user group and have decided to replace them with my usual amp head --> Two Notes Studio rig. To my ear, the Kemper produced a slightly less-dynamic tone with less "body". Less pleasing somehow. It's hard to describe but the subtle difference is noticeable to me and it's different enough to make me want to re-do the parts. I haven't given up on the Kemper though, and will try to profile some of my amps and continue tweaking. I hope it makes a difference to the tone it produces. Right now I'm struggling to find a place for it in my workflow since I have invested in a fair collection of amps over the years to send into the Two Notes, including various Marshalls, a Friedman BE-100, a Soldano SLO, a Purplexi (my favorite, what an amp!) , a Fender Deluxe, a Synergy SYN-1 with several modules, etc etc. I was a guitarist long before I got into recording!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 29, 2018 14:59:42 GMT -6
The room, the room the room! As an old live guy who spent years trying to get decent amp tones, the secret isn’t what happens within 12 inches of the speaker it’s what the room brings to the party. I think I posted about this already, but I had the same thought recording an SG>DS1>JCM900 at Hyde Street earlier this year. The room was everything special about the tones we got. Oh if those walls could tell us about all the great Guitar tones they have given us.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 29, 2018 15:08:24 GMT -6
Oh, and dammit!! I had ruled out the Kemper, but you guys are making me rethink things. Grrrrrrrrr. Do take to heart what Matt has to say, for some that last inch is like an itch you can never scratch, it’s all about versatility vs perfection.
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Post by ragan on Nov 29, 2018 15:14:21 GMT -6
And I think it's more than "the last inch" missing from the Kemper. Though it is undeniably a cool device and if I were gonna live in amp-sim land, that's the route I would go.
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Post by ragan on Nov 29, 2018 15:18:15 GMT -6
Oh, and dammit!! I had ruled out the Kemper, but you guys are making me rethink things. Grrrrrrrrr. Check my post from the first page for an idea of my complaint with the Kemper both times I've owned it. Again not to slag it. It's cool. Just never sold my ears. The day it does, I'll buy one again and try it.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 29, 2018 18:33:34 GMT -6
Oh, and dammit!! I had ruled out the Kemper, but you guys are making me rethink things. Grrrrrrrrr. Check my post from the first page for an idea of my complaint with the Kemper both times I've owned it. Again not to slag it. It's cool. Just never sold my ears. The day it does, I'll buy one again and try it. Yeah, I remember that video you posted, Ragan. It's a really good example. It's one of the things that reminded me why I hadn't ever bought a Kemper. The earliest videos I watched on the Kemper were right after it came out, and I remember people going back and forth between their real amp and the Kemper and saying, "see, it sounds identical!" But I was always like, "uhh, it doesn't sound identical to me, and I prefer the amp by quite a margin..." I had crossed it off my list years ago as a result, but then I started seeing more positive reviews of it lately (not just here), and I was beginning to think maybe the specific profiles were to blame in the videos, rather than the hardware itself. matt, I nearly bought the Suhr Reactive Load a couple months back, and then I considered the Torpedo Live, then the Torpedo Captor + C.A.B., etc. I never pulled the trigger on any of them, though. So you're digging your Torpedo Studio? Do you like the workflow? I was fairly into the amp modeler thing a decade ago, but then about 6 yrs ago, I bought a TopHat Club Royale, and then a modded AC-15, and then a modded Fender Pro Junior. I love all three of those amps, and I foreswore amp sims entirely. But I have to face the reality that I am not going to be able to crank up my amps anytime soon given my current studio situation. And I really need to be able to get great tones here at my place again. The Suhr RL, the Two Notes Torpedo, and the Fryette Power Station all sound excellent in the videos I've watched (though still not *identical* to the miked up versions of the amps). It's just that the Kemper seems so much more elegant: No cables running all over the place, no amps to turn on and warm up, no direct-box-sized things all over my desktop, etc. I'm interested to hear more from folks on either side of this debate. Anyone else? Or any more details on why you have your opinion?
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Post by sirthought on Nov 29, 2018 19:31:29 GMT -6
I heard somewhere recently that a Suhr Reactive Load ML 2 is coming on the horizon with a bunch of new bells and whistles. And Boss just released a product that might fit the bill for some people looking at Two Notes or the UA OX Box.
I heard about the Kemper because St. Vincent uses them on tour and handles all her effects and changes through it and midi, which I find somewhat impressive given the tones she goes after. I looked at some of the Andertons videos on it and found it to be really impressive. I like that that it's more of an amp you can use either in the studio or live, unlike the Two Notes stuff, which still requires an amp in many cases.
The OX seemed kind of overkill to me at first, but the more I've seen people working with it the more impressed I've been.
I own a Weber Mass attenuator that has a simple line out that I can send to my interface and it surprisingly still has great qualities of my Fender amp, even if I'm running effects in front of it. I just need to select a cabinet sim and it works pretty well IMO. I also like the amp sims I have from UAD plugins.
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Post by matt on Nov 29, 2018 19:47:01 GMT -6
Check my post from the first page for an idea of my complaint with the Kemper both times I've owned it. Again not to slag it. It's cool. Just never sold my ears. The day it does, I'll buy one again and try it. matt , So you're digging your Torpedo Studio? Do you like the workflow? The Studio, while pricey, is one of the best investments I've ever made in outboard. Look into it- it's a 2U rack piece and controlled by: either the front panel, or best, via USB and a free app. I find it very flexible and effectively indistinguishable from a mic-ed amp once tweaked. I turn off the app's reverb, select cabinet IRs and mics (there's lots of them, you can run two "cabinets" in parallel), and then move the virtual mics around until the tone feels right, all in real time. Settings can be saved as patches- 99 of them. It has 100W capacity at 8 ohms, and metering to tell you if you're pushing it too hard. I keep my heads-of-the-day on a rolling rack and just move the cables as needed. The whole system is rock-solid and absolutely repeatable from session to session- I just take pictures of my amp settings for future recall. Honestly I have a little buyer's remorse on the Kemper. It is so seductive, but my amps are better. So far. For people with significant amp collections, I'm not sure I'd recommend a Kemper. But if you need a jack-of-all-trades solution and don't own a variety of amps, IMO there's nothing better.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 29, 2018 19:59:11 GMT -6
matt , So you're digging your Torpedo Studio? Do you like the workflow? The Studio, while pricey, is one of the best investments I've ever made in outboard. Look into it- it's a 2U rack piece and controlled by: either the front panel, or best, via USB and a free app. I find it very flexible and effectively indistinguishable from a mic-ed amp once tweaked. I turn off the app's reverb, select cabinet IRs and mics (there's lots of them, you can run two "cabinets" in parallel), and then move the virtual mics around until the tone feels right, all in real time. Settings can be saved as patches- 99 of them. It has 100W capacity at 8 ohms, and metering to tell you if you're pushing it too hard. I keep my heads-of-the-day on a rolling rack and just move the cables as needed. The whole system is rock-solid and absolutely repeatable from session to session- I just take pictures of my amp settings for future recall. Honestly I have a little buyer's remorse on the Kemper. It is so seductive, but my amps are better. So far. For people with significant amp collections, I'm not sure I'd recommend a Kemper. But if you need a jack-of-all-trades solution and don't own a variety of amps, IMO there's nothing better. Cool. Is it possible to record a "dry" and "wet" signal through it at the same time, in case one would want to use a plugin IR loader after the fact? I don't know how much I would actually do that, but I'm curious to know if it's even possible. If I remember correctly, you can also load 3rd-party cab IRs into it?
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