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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 9, 2018 19:41:54 GMT -6
I got my test pressings and am very happy with the sound.
In negotiations, their website asked you to specify how much compression they should use.
I didn’t pick max,but I do find album sound seems a little low. Of course, easy to turn up volume.
But I asked company if I could request a hotter pressing and they said sure but they would recharge me ?
So, when does the client normally provide final approval with a record pressing company? How do you know what your record actually sounds like until you hear a test pressing? Then what: take it or leave it ? Feel like I am getting bs’d ?
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Post by donr on Oct 9, 2018 21:02:28 GMT -6
What's the peak to average on the pressing you have? If it's around 10-12 dB, I wouldn't go louder, unless that's your listener market.
Would they send you a hotter file over the internet, so you can hear it? Why wouldn't you agree on a "master" file before they made any disks?
Pardon me if I don't know anything particular about your situation. Good luck!
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Post by popmann on Oct 9, 2018 21:22:54 GMT -6
Are you talking about vinyl RECORD pressing...? Or CD mastering?
The answer as to approval is that A&R and the mastering engineer largely do it--artist may or may not be involved. But, pressing plants are irrelevant. Whether it's vinyl or CD, they duplicate what they're given. Only independent artists would use their "mastering services".
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Post by drbill on Oct 9, 2018 22:23:59 GMT -6
Vinyl, CD, Spotify Streaming, iTunes - All require different LUFS.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 10, 2018 0:43:18 GMT -6
I had my files mastered by another engineer and this conversation is with the dmm pressing of the vinyl records so they received mastered files .
They then ran them through their gear including a Prism Orpheus before hitting their Neumann lathe cutting the copper disc. On their website they referenced the compression factor so I had presumed that part of receiving the test pressing was not just confirming no errors in the production but also final sign off on the sound as technically they are reconverting the files I sent them and running them through their gear which , I the client have never heard before.
So, I am just surprised by the sort of take it leave it approach although I am pleased with the sound quality so maybe this doesn’t really matter ?
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Post by stormymondays on Oct 10, 2018 1:14:56 GMT -6
I understand you’re taking about vinyl. The test pressings only serve one purpose: to locate any defects on the master, like a click that happens at the same spot on all test copies. Any changes to the sound requiere a new master and they are right to charge you for it.
Edit: I hadn’t seen your reply above mine. I don’t know if any pressing plant that would create new masters for free if they are not defective.
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Post by svart on Oct 10, 2018 7:28:45 GMT -6
Mastering for vinyl is different than mastering for CD or other outputs. You can't have booming lows and such because they might skip the needle or eat up too much time on the vinyl. If you supplied a CD-worthy master to the record pressing plant, they might need to remaster to work better on the vinyl. I would expect them to charge you for that since it IS work they need to do to ensure you get a good product.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 10, 2018 7:42:25 GMT -6
All good . They were provided with master audio file in their requested format. I think they could have been clearer that other than defects in test pressings, there is not actually final client approval then (WYHIWYG). I just find that odd, as its great that they love their signal chain but what if you have never heard it before, how do I know its ok, other than knowing they use good gear, which was the ace the the hole  Anyway sound quality is very very good ,I was just thinking it could be a little louder, but I understand the problems if it were cut too hot too. Thx ! |
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Post by EmRR on Oct 11, 2018 6:23:51 GMT -6
Unlike other parts of mastering, it’s a mechanical process with potentially unknown outcomes and byproducts that can be significant sonically while not being considered defective technically. What you are experiencing is the way it’s always been in terms of cost options. Somewhat analogous to having a car painted, then asking for a color adjustment option. If I’m following correctly.....
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Post by trakworxmastering on Oct 12, 2018 10:25:51 GMT -6
I had my files mastered by another engineer and this conversation is with the dmm pressing of the vinyl records so they received mastered files . They then ran them through their gear including a Prism Orpheus before hitting their Neumann lathe cutting the copper disc. On their website they referenced the compression factor so I had presumed that part of receiving the test pressing was not just confirming no errors in the production but also final sign off on the sound as technically they are reconverting the files I sent them and running them through their gear which , I the client have never heard before. So, I am just surprised by the sort of take it leave it approach although I am pleased with the sound quality so maybe this doesn’t really matter ? I mastered that album. I'm a little distressed that they added further processing since the 24 bit vinyl premaster files I provided had already been carefully EQ'd and compressed (not limited), and you had signed off on that sound. Their job should have been to transfer that sound as accurately as possible to vinyl, not to alter it unless there was some issue that would cause problems when cutting, like excessive low end, out of phase stereo bass or sibilance, which there wasn't. The fact that they were suggesting they could "compress" it for a louder cut bothers me. Actually, from your posts it seems like they DID add compression, just not the "max" amount. Did you tell them ahead of time that it was already mastered and approved? What gear did they run it through besides the Prism DAC? Have you A/B'd against the audio files that I sent you? Does it sound altered?
I hate hearing this because in the liner notes it doesn't say "Mastered by so and so at the pressing plant", it says mastered by ME! Them putting their sonic stamp on it doesn't sit well at all. That. Is. Not. Their. Job.
Regarding loudness on vinyl - I don't think it's that important as long as the signal to noise ratio is acceptable and the sound is the way you intended. Does it sound softer than other relevant records in your vinyl collection?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 12:32:10 GMT -6
I feel for yah, has happened to me a few times, master something to client's 100% satisfaction, then some dweebs at the pressing plant run my file through their own full on chain with extra eq/compression/limiting etc. before cutting the vinyl, when it's completely unneeded. It properly sucks.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Oct 12, 2018 14:44:35 GMT -6
Man, who do they think they are?
I mean, does anyone want the delivery driver adding toppings to their pizza? No, just get it where it needs to go and keep it as close to what came from the kitchen as possible! I even had it happen with a CD release once. I'd recorded, mixed and mastered a Metal album and we were all really happy with it. The Italian label or their replicator remastered the already-mastered CD (made it sound worse IMO) plus as an added bonus they replicated with 2 second gaps added between all the tracks even though we had already crossfaded the songs into each other! Have you ever heard a crossfade with a 2 second gap hard chopped out of the middle? Super pleasing to the ear (eye roll). It got released that way with my name credited as the ME. Thousands of copies. They obviously didn't even listen to what they had done before pressing it up. Hacks! From now on for vinyl masters I guess I'll have to start including a note on the tracklist telling them it's a finalized approved premaster file set and not to be altered. Sheesh! |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 12, 2018 15:10:37 GMT -6
I don’t think they re-engineered anything. Since the website referenced different compression option, I understand my mastered file was going through the prism Orpheus and some compression to control the cut of the lathe.
Sonically, since I hear the output of their process only in the test pressing, I still find it very odd that I as the paying client have no right of final approval when technically they have changed the mastered files I sent them?
As I said, the good news is I do like the record’s sound, actually spinning it right now with a big tea after a nice fall bike ride, my heads spinning with all these spinning images !
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 12, 2018 15:14:02 GMT -6
I’ll ask them to confirm exactly what they did.
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Post by christopher on Oct 12, 2018 16:44:12 GMT -6
I always thought the best part of vinyl was lack of over-compression? Since the listeners are supposed to have a component stereo with separate turntable preamp, an amp, maybe EQ,.. loudness isn't really a factor, because you turn up the power amp and it sounds amazing. Right?
And I agree with Justin on this one. I'd think its just "deliver as submitted".. .but if the pizza delivery guy opens the box and the pepperoni spilled all over, don't tell anyone.. just put it back... as expected. Whatever it takes to be as exactly how it was, ...nothing else?
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 12, 2018 16:56:50 GMT -6
Yes I expected them to just pass the master through the orpheus to the lathe, maybe that's what they did.
I asked and why they ask you to confirm compression characteristic if they do nothing ?
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Post by trakworxmastering on Oct 12, 2018 17:06:20 GMT -6
Thanks for asking them - you're a super helpful dude!
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Post by trakworxmastering on Oct 12, 2018 17:14:14 GMT -6
I always thought the best part of vinyl was lack of over-compression? Yeah, it's what's so great about vinyl in the age of digital loudness wars. Dynamics. To hear a vinyl plant talking about compressing already-mastered music for loudness' sake just goes against the whole idea. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 12, 2018 17:24:26 GMT -6
It could be me misunderstanding. They master too so may ask in that context and then do nothing to master files they receive, which make sense, but their site doesn’t say that |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 12, 2018 17:31:54 GMT -6
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