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Post by henge on Feb 15, 2014 7:09:25 GMT -6
I've gotten into the habit of slapping Radiator just before any verb. Having a slightly driven signal going into itb verbs seems to help with spaciousness.
Anyone else do this?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2014 7:54:57 GMT -6
Hmm... seems I've seen this topic before... I'm not sure it actually does anything with spaciousness. There are probably two things going on. First there's the (hopefully) even-partial distortion, which is perceived by many people as warmth. The second thing would be the signal compression. Once the amp goes into overdrive, it's no longer linear in terms of gain. It's generating additional partials, but the overall energy no longer increases. This means that low-level input has comparatively more gain (relative to level) than the high-level input. That may make reverb more noticeable at lower levels. You could determine this for yourself by substituting a compressor for the distorter (of course a compressor IS a distorter in its own way). You might get a sense of how important that part is, compared to the harmonic distortion.
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Post by lolo on Feb 15, 2014 7:59:30 GMT -6
Great to have you here Michael. Welcome.
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Post by henge on Feb 15, 2014 8:07:24 GMT -6
Hmm... seems I've seen this topic before... I'm not sure it actually does anything with spaciousness. There are probably two things going on. First there's the (hopefully) even-partial distortion, which is perceived by many people as warmth. The second thing would be the signal compression. Once the amp goes into overdrive, it's no longer linear in terms of gain. It's generating additional partials, but the overall energy no longer increases. This means that low-level input has comparatively more gain (relative to level) than the high-level input. That may make reverb more noticeable at lower levels. You could determine this for yourself by substituting a compressor for the distorter (of course a compressor IS a distorter in its own way). You might get a sense of how important that part is, compared to the harmonic distortion. Excellent info. |
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Post by popmann on Feb 15, 2014 23:32:09 GMT -6
Never tried this...but a thought...most distortion is going to add high end by way of saturating overtones...most reverbs roll off high frequencies, at least by default. Saturation typically adds a kind of faux high end perception...think Aphex and BBE units if you're old enough--making it seem brighter without simply increasing the amplitude of the treble frequencies. Many saturation plugs up the gain, too, so I'd solo the aux with the reverb itself bypassed and make sure bypassing/enabling the saturation isn't simply changing the level sent into the reverb, as well.
Anyway...with all the masking frequencies in a mix, highs are where you hear reverb "as reverb"...which is why they roll them down and soften the highs--that's actually a sign of old cheap reverbs-that kind of metallic sparkle in the flutters that doesn't happen in nature.
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Post by henge on Feb 16, 2014 7:11:44 GMT -6
Try it and see if it works for you. Also, I'm talking about replicating a SLIGHTLY driven send. Not distortion. A subtle thing for sure but inches make up miles...
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Post by svart on Feb 17, 2014 11:13:51 GMT -6
Try it and see if it works for you. Also, I'm talking about replicating a SLIGHTLY driven send. Not distortion. A subtle thing for sure but inches make up miles... Technically, any difference in the audio signal is distortion. Look up "missing fundamental". When you have harmonics, the brain well interpret them an create whole tones, enriching the sound, or muddying it up.. |
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Post by Ward on Feb 17, 2014 11:59:03 GMT -6
I have tried it and really dislike the results. There is a trend in ITB work, mixing in particular, to try and 'dirty' up the signal and not just the reverb send. It seems to be an attempt to make the sound more analog and is prevalent in rock music in particular. It is the very thing (when we were all analog) we tried so hard to overcome.
I think the efforts are counter-productive and the results are less than what was there before. It is the antithesis of synergy.
JMHO.
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Post by jazznoise on Feb 17, 2014 19:13:49 GMT -6
It is the antithesis of synergy. That prose totally synthesized a new paradigm within the sphere of sonic diversification and poly-tonal hegemony. I mean I'd already tried to inform a granular approach to the post-modern/structuralist dichotomy but I found the aggregate exceedingly atrophying. ..My reverb bus has reverb. If I do parallel compression I'll send some to the reverb, sure, but 99% of the time if I'm getting parts too reverberate and others not enough I'll just automate. Seems to work. |
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Post by Ward on Feb 17, 2014 20:23:15 GMT -6
Some sort of protest against my excessive use of verbage, jazznoise? LMAO
am I being verbose?
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 17, 2014 20:36:27 GMT -6
I have tried it and really dislike the results. There is a trend in ITB work, mixing in particular, to try and 'dirty' up the signal and not just the reverb send. It seems to be an attempt to make the sound more analog and is prevalent in rock music in particular. It is the very thing (when we were all analog) we tried so hard to overcome. I think the efforts are counter-productive and the results are less than what was there before. It is the antithesis of synergy. JMHO. Funny you say it that way...... I talked to Hank Williams the other day for a bit, there was a track I sent up and the keys had a hiss on them that wasn't really an issue until he pulled the noise floor up. I called and asked him what was going on and he thought it was some sort of plugin imparting that "analog" hiss that's built into the plugins. So basically he went on about how back when there wasn't digital they fought to get rid of all that, and that now he's just gotten used to tracks having a hiss. If I use a plugin that has that I usually flip it off... does nothing but make the floor more noticeable and then you've got to go automating this to dive out before things get too soft so you can't hear the hiss. Makes no sense to me. |
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Post by Ward on Feb 17, 2014 20:39:12 GMT -6
Funny you say it that way...... I talked to Hank Williams the other day for a bit, Which Hank? |
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 17, 2014 20:59:17 GMT -6
Funny you say it that way...... I talked to Hank Williams the other day for a bit, Which Hank? Well I'm not Ms. Cleo.... so it wasn't senior if that's what you're asking  Up at MasterMix though in case you were serious  |
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Post by Ward on Feb 18, 2014 7:26:18 GMT -6
LOL... I was just curious if you were referring to Bocephus or Hank the Third.
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Post by jazznoise on Feb 18, 2014 11:06:33 GMT -6
Some sort of protest against my excessive use of verbage, jazznoise? LMAO am I being verbose? The particular sentence just reminded of the "World Wide Webiverse" episode of Daria not to contribute with my own Web 2.0 Si. Val. Techspeak  |
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 18, 2014 13:53:08 GMT -6
LOL... I was just curious if you were referring to Bocephus or Hank the Third. Ahh nope..... different Hank Williams. Hank is a mastering engineer in Nashville, damn good one too. I'm not positive on this, but I'm pretty sure his name is just coincidence. Here's his credits though. www.allmusic.com/artist/hank-williams-mn0002228991 |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Feb 18, 2014 14:23:31 GMT -6
I tried this. While radiator didn't do much for me, decapitator sounded real nice on the EMT emulations in the Oxford reverb. It probably wouldn't sound very good on a hall but I'm mixing '70s classic rock.
I also hate lexicons and 80% of real chambers. That said, I passed on a few tricks I'd learned from Bill Putnam's son (the studio designer, not the plug-in guy) at Wally Heider's for the new chamber at Addiction and it sounds great.
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Post by LesC on Feb 18, 2014 18:38:05 GMT -6
LOL... I was just curious if you were referring to Bocephus or Hank the Third. Ahh nope..... different Hank Williams. Hank is a mastering engineer in Nashville, damn good one too. I'm not positive on this, but I'm pretty sure his name is just coincidence. Here's his credits though. www.allmusic.com/artist/hank-williams-mn0002228991Speaking about coincidences, the recording engineer for my first album was named Graham Nash. We recorded at night when the rates were cheaper, during the time The Stampeders were recording Sweet City Woman and various other songs for their first album. In a long-gone studio called Sound Canada, I think also known as Toronto Sound, in 1970 if I remember right. I was 17, and the experience made me decide to become an electrical engineer so I could design recording equipment. Unfortunately, my interest turned to computers, and music became a sideline. |
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Post by Ward on Feb 18, 2014 22:17:47 GMT -6
Congrats on your first 100 posts, Bob. I hope I get to enjoy many hundred more!!
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