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Post by Ward on Jun 30, 2018 22:21:28 GMT -6
Not in the C12 family but a nice mic, have you look at the Sure SM7 ( not SM57) a great mic for under 500$. Yeah about that . . . theres a hung jury on that, Big Bone. See... it has it's uses but you don't hear many of your peers calling it a "great mic" It's one of the OK-est microphones around though.
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 30, 2018 22:44:28 GMT -6
Not in the C12 family but a nice mic, have you look at the Sure SM7 ( not SM57) a great mic for under 500$. Yeah about that . . . theres a hung jury on that, Big Bone. See... it has it's uses but you don't hear many of your peers calling it a "great mic" It's one of the OK-est microphones around though. I dunno about that. It’s sure been used on a lot of records that have sold lots of copies. (Has anybody been able to confirm or refute the Micheal Jackson Thriller rumour?) But as a C12 substitute. Um, no. That said, on my voice, I’m reaching for the Sm7. Plus I don’t have a C12. Makes that choice easier. Like any mic, works on some things and not so much on others. I like it on guitar cabs too. But yeah Sm7 and C12 are apples and kumquats. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by happychap on Jun 30, 2018 22:59:51 GMT -6
Perhaps a bit off topic, but here's Neal Cappellino running through a U67, C12a, U47, SM7 and Requisite L7 (shootout is at the end of the video). Listen to the differences between these mics (do it without looking). I do think she could back up a bit off the mics (like the C12a).
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 1, 2018 7:32:23 GMT -6
Not in the C12 family but a nice mic, have you look at the Sure SM7 ( not SM57) a great mic for under 500$. Yeah about that . . . theres a hung jury on that, Big Bone. See... it has it's uses but you don't hear many of your peers calling it a "great mic" It's one of the OK-est microphones around though. What the SM7 does really well is close up screaming Vox. That’s why it was used on Michael Jackson’s “Thriller.” Thats also why it has been used on so many rock and metal albums. Michael also used a U47 for many of his ballads and during “We are the World” everyone used C12s.
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Post by happychap on Jul 1, 2018 7:44:39 GMT -6
Yeah about that . . . theres a hung jury on that, Big Bone. See... it has it's uses but you don't hear many of your peers calling it a "great mic" It's one of the OK-est microphones around though. What the SM7 does well is close up screaming Vox. That’s why it was used on Michael Jackson’s “Thriller.” Thats also why it has been used on so many rock and metal albums. Michael also used a U47 for many of his ballads and during “We are the World” everyone used C12s. In the video I posted, the SM7 was a finalist among the U67 and Requisite (on softer female vocals) as assessed by one of Nashville's top engineers/producers. George Massenburg used the SM7 on female vocals (folk band, live tracked) when he had his room at Blackbird (mic choices, anyone?). I agree that bringing up the SM7 in a thread about C12's seems way off the mark, but it probably is helpful to lay to rest that it's a mic solely for 'screamers, thrillers and heavy metal killers.'
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 1, 2018 8:08:22 GMT -6
What the SM7 does well is close up screaming Vox. That’s why it was used on Michael Jackson’s “Thriller.” Thats also why it has been used on so many rock and metal albums. Michael also used a U47 for many of his ballads and during “We are the World” everyone used C12s. In the video I posted, the SM7 was a finalist among the U67 and Requisite (on softer female vocals) as assessed by one of Nashville's top engineers/producers. George Massenburg used the SM7 on female vocals (folk band, live tracked) when he had his room at Blackbird (mic choices, anyone?). I agree that bringing up the SM7 in a thread about C12's seems way off the mark, but it probably is helpful to lay to rest that it's a mic solely for 'screamers, thrillers and heavy metal killers.' In the video it seemed that it was a finalist, because she felt comfortable with it. If you notice, Neil made sure to keep the C12 out for her, even though it wasn’t in her top two. Joking aside, the SM7 is a useful mic that can save the day on certain vocals. I’ve done scratch vocals on an SM57 that ended up being left as is on recordings. Everything is source and song dependant and you won’t know till you try. I really need to pick an SM7 up at some point. As for the C12, I should mention the Slate VMS’ FG12 was my favorite of all the emulations. It’s still hard for me to fully endorse the system as it didn’t deliver the way I wanted it to, but the FG12with the FG76 preamp was a wonderful signal chain that beat out my Advanced Audio CM12 on my voice. I’ve personally been using my BLUE Bottle Rocket Stage II with the B6 Cap these days for the places I’d like to use a C12. It was as good on my voice as the FG12, but different. I really enjoy what it does. It’s like the Kiwi with a tube. It’s a tuned K67 Capsule though. So it’s more like a cross between a C12 and an M269. I also changed the tube out too. It’s way beyond the budget posted, but I figured I’d share that anyway.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 1, 2018 9:20:50 GMT -6
Interesting shootout. I thought the U67 suited her best, it had the fullness and intimacy. The Requisite L7 was too thin, therefore seemed bright. The SM7 wasn't bad, but felt flatter, 2 dimensional to me. The C12A sounded like they put a wool blanket over it.
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Post by bigbone on Jul 1, 2018 9:52:38 GMT -6
What the SM7 does well is close up screaming Vox. That’s why it was used on Michael Jackson’s “Thriller.” Thats also why it has been used on so many rock and metal albums. Michael also used a U47 for many of his ballads and during “We are the World” everyone used C12s. In the video I posted, the SM7 was a finalist among the U67 and Requisite (on softer female vocals) as assessed by one of Nashville's top engineers/producers. George Massenburg used the SM7 on female vocals (folk band, live tracked) when he had his room at Blackbird (mic choices, anyone?). I agree that bringing up the SM7 in a thread about C12's seems way off the mark, but it probably is helpful to lay to rest that it's a mic solely for 'screamers, thrillers and heavy metal killers.' I agree the a C12 and SM7 are completly different, my point was if i had to choose bettwen a cheap knok off version of a C12 and a SM7 , i will choose the SM7. Nothing more and nothing less.!!!
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 1, 2018 10:50:56 GMT -6
Interesting shootout. I thought the U67 suited her best, it had the fullness and intimacy. The Requisite L7 was too thin, therefore seemed bright. The SM7 wasn't bad, but felt flatter, 2 dimensional to me. The C12A sounded like they put a wool blanket over it. I also prefered the U67. It had a bigger than life kind of sound. I actually liked the C12, but would probably need to EQ is a little.
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Post by Ward on Jul 1, 2018 10:53:00 GMT -6
Perhaps a bit off topic, but here's Neal Cappellino running through a U67, C12a, U47, SM7 and Requisite L7 (shootout is at the end of the video). Listen to the differences between these mics (do it without looking). I do think she could back up a bit off the mics (like the C12a). Thanks for the link. On this vocalist, the SM7 was my least favorite. The U67 and C12a (and I have one of each of these) were my two top picks. The L7 is gorgeous but I think a little too strident for this singer. The C12a definitely had the best body, and as was evident, also in most need of a pop filter. Great video, again, my thanks.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 1, 2018 13:21:16 GMT -6
The C12 seemed quite muted to me though. I've used vintage C12's, but never a C12A. The C12A looks more like a 414. Does it sound more like a 414 than a C12?
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 1, 2018 14:37:00 GMT -6
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Post by timcampbell on Jul 1, 2018 15:01:57 GMT -6
Yes. Hearing this I'd say that C12a needs a good servicing. C12a's can be dark or dull but they don't have to be. Installing a new tube and a few mods can really bring them to life. I've worked on quite a few C12a's from Pye Studios and Olympic Studios that in the end sounded as good as any C12.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 1, 2018 16:24:06 GMT -6
Good article Vincent, thanks. Glad to hear Tim noticed the C12A was lacking.
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Post by happychap on Jul 2, 2018 14:40:10 GMT -6
Roswell has a C12 inspired mic in the works.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 2, 2018 14:57:51 GMT -6
He describes the capsule as "like a 251" it's interesting I'm really glad they called it something besides a 12-251 or whatever, that has gotten so overdone.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 2, 2018 15:09:12 GMT -6
Perhaps a bit off topic, but here's Neal Cappellino running through a U67, C12a, U47, SM7 and Requisite L7 (shootout is at the end of the video). Listen to the differences between these mics (do it without looking). I do think she could back up a bit off the mics (like the C12a). Wow I've never thought about phase in the headphones that's something I'm going to have to mess with.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 2, 2018 18:05:38 GMT -6
Perhaps a bit off topic, but here's Neal Cappellino running through a U67, C12a, U47, SM7 and Requisite L7 (shootout is at the end of the video). Listen to the differences between these mics (do it without looking). I do think she could back up a bit off the mics (like the C12a). Wow I've never thought about phase in the headphones that's something I'm going to have to mess with. Yeah. It helped me out a few times.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 2, 2018 20:34:00 GMT -6
If the Roswell Delphos is an indication of the quality the new mic might be, expect something surprisingly good. As far as the C12 sound goes, well, I think Gabygab would do very well to look closely at the Lewitt 640, it's like a real 414, but with a fuller low end.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 3, 2018 7:17:15 GMT -6
If the Roswell Delphos is an indication of the quality the new mic might be, expect something surprisingly good. As far as the C12 sound goes, well, I think Gabygab would do very well to look closely at the Lewitt 640, it's like a real 414, but with a fuller low end. I don’t dislike the 414 and can’t speak for the Lewitt stuff, but I’ve never put the 414 in the same category with the C12. I also enjoy playing with the stuff from the guys at Roswel, but I know them from Microphone-Parts.com from which I had their Studio Projects C3 mod kit in my C3 for a while. They also have a C12 style mic that might be closer to what is being looked for. I’ve never used it though. I looks pretty similar to what Advanced Audio does. Then again, they are all using the design tweaks made by Oliver Archut, just with more affordable components. microphone-parts.com/products/v12-tube-microphone
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 3, 2018 8:02:51 GMT -6
Mica are strange things. All sorts of combinations of parts and design add up to every one sounding a little different. When I did my album "Watching the Days Fall", I was still at the point where I didn't care what mic was used, as long as it was a Neumann. So, I used a U87 for all the tracks except for two, one I used a 414 on because it worked better. It sure didn't sound lesser than the U87, just different. My suggestion to check out the Lewitt was because it managed to pull of a neat trick, sounding much more expensive and pro than expected. Of course, it's voice dependent.
I've used vintage C12's a few times, and so far, the mic most like it in the "affordable" range that I've heard is the Telefunken AR51. It just sounds good without mods, and has that extended smooth top end the C12 and ELAM 251 have. If Gaby can find that on eBay, he might just have something useable until the budget is higher.
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Post by gabygab2 on Jul 4, 2018 11:10:05 GMT -6
Thanks every one! I really appreciate all the input. You guys are great!
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