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Post by forgotteng on May 22, 2018 20:31:38 GMT -6
Is anyone else digging this new Ashley Monroe album. The bottom end feels so good. Dave Cobb strikes again. I would love to hear any insight on how they got the low end so right on this. That song Hands on You, knocks me out.
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Post by svart on May 23, 2018 15:40:48 GMT -6
Interesting. I went to listen. Sounds like a rolled off fender bass through a fender bass amp with some heavy compression.
What jumps out is the kick drum has a little resonant WOOP in some parts that I don't like.
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Post by forgotteng on May 23, 2018 17:55:45 GMT -6
Interesting. I went to listen. Sounds like a rolled off fender bass through a fender bass amp with some heavy compression. What jumps out is the kick drum has a little resonant WOOP in some parts that I don't like. This is what fascinates me about mixing because I love that woop. And yet I'm sure I've EQ'd it out many times because I was afraid it was too muddy. |
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Post by jeromemason on May 24, 2018 9:16:45 GMT -6
He's probably got some parallel stuff going on there too, to make it stand up like that, but I was taught extremely early to always set my HPF at 47hz on the bass....... Sometimes higher if the player is using the upper octaves more. But, the lower octaves will stand up better if you roll the "fluffy" out. You'll be able to bring the volume on up without getting into the kick, also the bass reacts better to compression, especially older boxes. Also, if you'll use Decapitator and set the tone to like 11 o'clock and the HPF in it to near about the same, then do about a 70% mix, that sound will pop out. Most guys do eq that out, but that's because the band with is being eaten by synths, keys, guitars etc. The lowend is where you hear the distortion break up when it starts getting limited, especially in that zone that it cuts the best. Clearly on this record they didn't give a hoot. Some of those old Micheal Jackson records, Earth Wind and Fire.... ETC, they do it too, mostly they were doing it then because if you left anything that was "fluffy" it ate all the bandwidth up in the cars or home speakers they had. And always remember........ NO RULES!  |
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Post by svart on May 24, 2018 11:51:05 GMT -6
Interesting. I went to listen. Sounds like a rolled off fender bass through a fender bass amp with some heavy compression. What jumps out is the kick drum has a little resonant WOOP in some parts that I don't like. This is what fascinates me about mixing because I love that woop. And yet I'm sure I've EQ'd it out many times because I was afraid it was too muddy. It's generically called the "beachball" because it sounds like when you hit a beachball. Being a drummer, that absolutely takes me out of the experience and turns me off. You don't have to EQ it out if it's not there. The drummer/drum tech should have spent a few more minutes tuning that kick a bit better. |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 24, 2018 19:05:56 GMT -6
He's probably got some parallel stuff going on there too, to make it stand up like that, but I was taught extremely early to always set my HPF at 47hz on the bass....... Sometimes higher if the player is using the upper octaves more. But, the lower octaves will stand up better if you roll the "fluffy" out. You'll be able to bring the volume on up without getting into the kick, also the bass reacts better to compression, especially older boxes. Also, if you'll use Decapitator and set the tone to like 11 o'clock and the HPF in it to near about the same, then do about a 70% mix, that sound will pop out. Most guys do eq that out, but that's because the band with is being eaten by synths, keys, guitars etc. The lowend is where you hear the distortion break up when it starts getting limited, especially in that zone that it cuts the best. Clearly on this record they didn't give a hoot. Some of those old Micheal Jackson records, Earth Wind and Fire.... ETC, they do it too, mostly they were doing it then because if you left anything that was "fluffy" it ate all the bandwidth up in the cars or home speakers they had. And always remember........ NO RULES! Soooometimes...I find myself doing a resonant hp on bass. Depending on the curve, I’ll go so far as boosting at 38hz. Of course, it’s not really getting that...but hpshelf can do some amazing things. |
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Post by jeromemason on May 25, 2018 8:48:53 GMT -6
38.......47.......51 1/2........... I have no earthly idea what significance there is in 47hz but that's what I was taught and it's always been good for me. Some of the newer stuff though I'll run it on 20hz with like a 48db point. I've got two subs and i'm amazed when I juice them up and listen to a big fancy new EP or LP at how much rumble there is. I thought the mastering guys always did the 20hz /-- for good measure but maybe not all do?
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Post by svart on May 25, 2018 11:51:54 GMT -6
"missing fundamental".
It's harmonics of a lower fundamental that isn't there due to hpf. It still sounds like it's there though.
I think some mixers will boost stuff down in the 40hz range to get some frequency mixing and harmonics, then hpf later so that the low junk is gone, but it still sounds heavy.
Then again I've read some mixers say things like "I hpf the bass at 80hz because there isn't anything useful below that" and yet their stuff still sounds real thick and heavy.
I think it's really about how the 80-100 region and the 600-800 region play together and how the guitar and vocals are molded around those places to keep the mud controlled.
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Post by Guitar on May 27, 2018 9:44:31 GMT -6
The low E string on a bass rings at 41.2 Hz fundamental, so cutting below 47 Hz sounds pretty sensible to me.
The snare is very quiet in this mix. It's very much kick and bass, hi hat/ride, driving the groove. Reminds me of the Radiohead song "Karma Police." The groove is pretty similar, too. "1, and, 2 E and (a)"
Drums are very mono as well which locks in with the bass guitar.
This is a really good mix, I like it!
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Post by jeromemason on May 28, 2018 21:27:17 GMT -6
Well there's a little secret sauce I was taught when it comes to where you're cutting and I don't see why it should be secret, even though I was told to keep it to myself........ with the software today and recent write ups in some of the trade mags I don't see any reason to not say honestly.
On the main bass, yes you cut pretty high up, maybe even double than the 47hz. But, the kicker here is you can do either 2 things, you can use a synth mod under it to create a lower octave to blend, or you can use Maxxbass or RennBass to blend to taste and you set it up to be out of the kicks way. You get the growl and the fluff. Just watch for latency stuff and make sure they're in polarity/phase. You can also tune the kick away from the bass using the Waves Torque, makes kicks sound freaking massive. That's also a blend type of deal.
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Post by svart on May 29, 2018 9:58:03 GMT -6
Well there's a little secret sauce I was taught when it comes to where you're cutting and I don't see why it should be secret, even though I was told to keep it to myself........ with the software today and recent write ups in some of the trade mags I don't see any reason to not say honestly. On the main bass, yes you cut pretty high up, maybe even double than the 47hz. But, the kicker here is you can do either 2 things, you can use a synth mod under it to create a lower octave to blend, or you can use Maxxbass or RennBass to blend to taste and you set it up to be out of the kicks way. You get the growl and the fluff. Just watch for latency stuff and make sure they're in polarity/phase. You can also tune the kick away from the bass using the Waves Torque, makes kicks sound freaking massive. That's also a blend type of deal. Honestly none of that are secrets.. I've read all of those many times over the years.. Renn/Maxbass are harmonics generators. they create the "missing fundamental" type of harmonics that I spoke of in my post. You can also use distortion before the HPF, then highpass at a higher frequency than you would normally do and still get some of the effect. Sometimes you can mult the track, put the second one through distortion, then through bandpassing to get the more low mid harmonics without adding too many HF harmonics, then blend. Another fun one is to take your clean DI and cut mids pretty heavy so that just the low end and high end remain, and then use the amp/distorted for the mid bite. Distortion on the lows just adds mud, but distortion on the mids make everything pop a little more without adding to the mud. The best trick is an old one.. Sidechain some ducking on the bass from the kick. Gets the bass out of the way of the kick for a hot second for more apparent thump, rather than needing to EQ the kick or bass heavily. |
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Post by jeromemason on May 29, 2018 10:05:49 GMT -6
Well there's a little secret sauce I was taught when it comes to where you're cutting and I don't see why it should be secret, even though I was told to keep it to myself........ with the software today and recent write ups in some of the trade mags I don't see any reason to not say honestly. On the main bass, yes you cut pretty high up, maybe even double than the 47hz. But, the kicker here is you can do either 2 things, you can use a synth mod under it to create a lower octave to blend, or you can use Maxxbass or RennBass to blend to taste and you set it up to be out of the kicks way. You get the growl and the fluff. Just watch for latency stuff and make sure they're in polarity/phase. You can also tune the kick away from the bass using the Waves Torque, makes kicks sound freaking massive. That's also a blend type of deal. Honestly none of that are secrets.. I've read all of those many times over the years.. Renn/Maxbass are harmonics generators. they create the "missing fundamental" type of harmonics that I spoke of in my post. You can also use distortion before the HPF, then highpass at a higher frequency than you would normally do and still get some of the effect. Sometimes you can mult the track, put the second one through distortion, then through bandpassing to get the more low mid harmonics without adding too many HF harmonics, then blend. Another fun one is to take your clean DI and cut mids pretty heavy so that just the low end and high end remain, and then use the amp/distorted for the mid bite. Distortion on the lows just adds mud, but distortion on the mids make everything pop a little more without adding to the mud. The best trick is an old one.. Sidechain some ducking on the bass from the kick. Gets the bass out of the way of the kick for a hot second for more apparent thump, rather than needing to EQ the kick or bass heavily. Well when guys that have Grammys and constant #1’s are telling you to keep it to yourself I mean that’s just what you do. But, like I said I don’t see any reason why that one is a secret anymore. It was once though. Really hate calling them secrets, it’s just a technique someone shares or teaches you that can help separate you. There are kick samples out there that are like gold, that technique at one time was too. |
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