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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 8, 2018 18:24:07 GMT -6
In Apogee control in Pro Tools. Apogee support sucks. Is there no way to do it with keeping low latency on in PT which turns off internal monitoring?
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 8, 2018 19:51:42 GMT -6
In Apogee control in Pro Tools. Apogee support sucks. Is there no way to do it with keeping low latency on in PT which turns off internal monitoring? Here's my setup. I direct monitor my input from the Control app, not PT. In PT, I have an aux bus setup with my verb, routed normally. Then, I have a second aux bus setup, no output. The input is set to the extra pair of inputs of your symphony's I/O (which I think was reserved for this FX send). In my case (16x16), it's like 19-20 or something. You have to then setup a Reverb send on that FX aux bus you just created. That should get you reverb on the FX send. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 8, 2018 20:40:28 GMT -6
Thank you! Gonna try. It actually says “FX Send” for one of the selectable inputs. Since I stay around 1024, might not be worthy it anyway.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 8, 2018 20:43:02 GMT -6
I’m like you though with this front end. I’d buy a twin in a second if the dang thing had a digital out.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 8, 2018 20:55:14 GMT -6
Are you using the apogee mixer view and muting your tracks in your daw ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 8, 2018 21:03:57 GMT -6
I think this process is the same for symphony?
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 8, 2018 21:16:23 GMT -6
Are you using the apogee mixer view and muting your tracks in your daw ? That’s not using low latency tracking. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 8, 2018 21:26:27 GMT -6
That’s what CS told me to do when they set up my session ?
I use mixer for tracking and playback for mixing. While tracking I mute the armed channel in my daw ?
I think this is so you hear the lowest latency and are then using apogee control like apollo console as the front end to your daw ?
Least I think this is what I do , been spending all my time getting my new system working so haven’t been recording recently but I can check tomorrow ?
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 8, 2018 22:32:31 GMT -6
Good Lord this is confusing to me. Albeit, I’m not the swiftest when it comes to I/O...but This just seems extra confusing to me.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 9, 2018 1:54:05 GMT -6
When I first got mine , couldn’t figure it out and they sent me the beta for the unlaunched control so they set it up for me by remoting in.
The front end for tracking with lowest latency is through the mixer screen for sure.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 10, 2018 16:02:38 GMT -6
So, I definitely for tracking use the mixer view and mute my armed channels in my daw for lowest latency: look at vox 6 far left highlighted:  Also, here is link to current manual, description of Control starts around page 28 I think ? www.apogeedigital.com/pdf/symphony-io-mkII-users-guide_april_2017.pdf It states this about fx: page 37: 4. Mixer1-Signal from each channel can be sent through this mixer by raising the corresponding Mixer 1 Channel Fader. • This mixer’s Master signal can then be selected as a source for the Headphones or Speaker outputs, providing a low-latency direct monitoring signal path. • This mixer can also be sent back into the computer as a separate stereo input available in your DAW. The faders on this mixer affect the fader send signal of the other Mixers and FX Send when the Pre Fader button is not engaged. 5. Mixers2,3,4-Signalfromeachchannelcanbesent through these mixers by raising the individual Mixer 2, 3, or 4 Channel Fader. • This mixer’s Master signal can then be selected as a source for the Headphones or Speaker outputs providing a low-latency direct monitoring signal path.
6. FX Send-Signal from each channel can be sent through this mixer by raising the individual FX Send Channel Fader.
•This Mixer is sent back into the computer where it shows up as an extra stereo input available in your DAW. By using this input on an Aux track that has a Reverb or Delay or other effects plugin, effects can be applied to a Direct Monitoring situation which would otherwise be completely dry of effects.
Apogee control mixer view for my tracking looks like this: I opened the fx sends by clicking on the orange button ( far left), although I don't normally do that.  |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 10, 2018 16:18:59 GMT -6
Near end of the manual:highlighting need for using the mixer window:
How does Symphony Control resolve latency?
By routing the hardware input directly to the hardware output and mixing in playback as shown in Figure B, it’s possible to create a headphone listening signal with a much shorter delay.
First, the signal being recorded (in this case, a vocal mic) is split in the hardware interface and routed to both the software application for recording and directly back to the hardware outputs without going through the latency- inducing software; this creates a low latency path from mic to headphones. Next, a stereo mix of playback tracks is routed to the low latency mixer and combined with the hardware input(s). This allows the performer to hear both himself without a confusing delay plus the playback needed for overdubbing.
Note that the software application’s mixer is used to set a stereo mix of playback tracks while the low latency mixer is used to set the balance between the stereo playback mix and the hardware inputs.
Do I need the Symphony Control Mixer?
The Symphony Control mixers serves to provide a low latency listening mix while recording.
Therefore if you’re using Symphony to listen to iTunes or audio from another program, there’s no need to use the mixer.
It’s also possible that the latency of your particular recording system is low enough to be unnoticeable by you or other performers, especially since Symphony uses the very efficient ThunderboltTM 2 Technology. If you’ve set your audio software’s input/output buffers according to the guidelines below and latency doesn’t bother you or other performers, there’s no need to use the Symphony Control mixers.
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Post by mikec on Feb 15, 2018 18:10:50 GMT -6
I've not had a need to use the low latency mixer in Symphony Control with my Symphony MKII, but after reading this thread and looking for somewhere that demonstrated how to use it in Pro Tools and not finding anything I decided I better figure it out before I actually needed it. After watching how it was done in Logic I played around with it in Pro Tools 2108.1 to figure it out and it actually works really well. I just set up a simple mono track to do a vocal test with reverb for tracking. I set my buffer to 1024 and was able to record a second vocal while listening to the first with no perceived latency. I set up my record track with a send to the aux with the reverb on it just like I normally would, then like in the logic video, set up a second aux track with no output selected and bussed it to the same aux track that had the reverb on it. For the input on the second aux track I selected "FX send L/R". Then in pro tools preferences I unlinked the play and record fader option so that when the track is record enabled I pull the fader all the way down so I am not hearing monitoring through Pr tools. This is similar to what I had to do when I had my Metric Halo ULN8 and did not want to use software monitoring in Pro Tools. In the Symphony control software just make sure the FX fader us up on the input you are recording on and the master FX fader is up and you are ready to go. Seems like a lot of steps but once you do it, it is actually pretty easy and you are only setting up one extra aux track. At least now I know if I get everything done and need to over dub some vocals with reverb for the the singer I can leave my buffer at 1024 and not make my plugins in active.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 15, 2018 19:37:44 GMT -6
Also, once set up, you can save it and just reuse it ? Also, you can use other plugs in too, so that would be interesting to see how much of the prefered UA console plug in channel chain you can actually run with your symph mkii ?
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 15, 2018 21:18:49 GMT -6
Also, once set up, you can save it and just reuse it ? Also, you can use other plugs in too, so that would be interesting to see how much of the prefered UA console plug in channel chain you can actually run with your symph mkii ? Pretty sure you are hearing the entire delay, it’s just that it’s reverb, so it just sounds like a pre-delay. I work mostly in 44.1-48, so it’s still a pretty big delay. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 15, 2018 21:58:08 GMT -6
Sorry not understanding? Do you mean fx is 100% wet ? Or am I being slow ?
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 16, 2018 7:42:23 GMT -6
Sorry...that was worded badly. Let me go set this up and make sure I can speak intelligently on this. If I’m understanding, this doesn’t change the latency on the verb at all, so having a verb with that much pre-delay might be worse for a singer than having no verb at all.
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Post by mikec on Feb 16, 2018 8:45:14 GMT -6
I am going to do some additional testing on this today with a larger mix that has numerous plugins to see if I can truly leave the buffer at 1024 and still track without perceived latency like I can when I just track straight through Pro Tools at a 64 buffer.
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 16, 2018 10:17:02 GMT -6
Sorry...that was worded badly. Let me go set this up and make sure I can speak intelligently on this. If I’m understanding, this doesn’t change the latency on the verb at all, so having a verb with that much pre-delay might be worse for a singer than having no verb at all. I found the latency on the verb irritating while tracking vocals to a heavily mixed tune. I had to set my latency high, because of UAD plugs and also because my 2012 mac mini is technologically ancient, now. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 16, 2018 13:54:03 GMT -6
Are you guys using the mix window ?
In the demo video at end they state you should have verb with very low latency so don't think there should be delay ?
Basically the video demos setting a verb normally for mixing and setting up a verb for tracking with low latency, by setting up an aux track in your daw being bussed same as recording track but no output, using the Apogee mixer window and its track and master sends ?
So, this is like the UA console as it becomes a front end for tracking to provide lowest latency and access to plug ins in your daw ?
Only extra step is creating the aux track in your daw ?
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