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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 23, 2018 21:49:18 GMT -6
Hmmm. So my MkII converters aren’t as good as they could be? Apogee Introduces New Special Edition 2x6 I/O Module for Symphony I/O Mk II Apogee Electronics is pleased to announce a new 2x6 Special Edition AD/DA module for their flagship Symphony I/O Mk II series. Designed specifically for mastering engineers, whose critical work demands ultimate sonic performance, Symphony I/O Mk II 2x6 SE offers the highest quality AD/DA conversion of any Apogee converter ever. Symphony I/O Mk II 2x6 SE takes advantage of the latest advancements in digital and analog audio technology offering two line level inputs with 124 dB (A) of dynamic range, THD+N of -116dB and six line level outputs with 131dB (A) dynamic range and an astonishingly low THD+N of -118dB. Lucas Van Der Mee, Apogee’s Senior Hardware Engineer, comments “These are real measurements, taken with our lab test equipment and not just ‘data sheet’ specs. The new 2x6 SE will outperform just about anything in the market...at any price.” The D/A stage incorporates the latest DAC technology, carefully optimized to offer mastering engineers the ultimate transparency to make critical adjustments with confidence. Whether you’re working with analog outboard gear or digitally in a DAW on your computer, the 2x6 SE retains every bit of warmth, punch and image in your recordings and signal processing chain. Symphony I/O Mk II 2x6 SE is now available in Thunderbolt and Pro Tools HD configurations, or may be purchased separately to expand existing Symphony I/O Mk II configurations. Symphony I/O MkII 2x6 SE configurations (Thunderbolt or Pro Tools HD) are available for $2995 USD and 2x6 SE expansion module is available for $1895 USD from authorized Apogee dealers worldwide. Highlights: Highest Quality Apogee AD/DA converter A/D = 124dB (A) dynamic range, -116dB THD+N D/A = 131dB (A) dynamic range, -118dB THD+N Available in Thunderbolt or HD configurations Also available as expansion module for existing Symphony I/O Mk II Inputs Analog IN: 2 balanced inputs on 2 female XLR connectors AES IN: Stereo input on 1 female XLR connector Optical IN: Supports ADAT, SMUX & S/PDIF ADAT: 8 channels 44.1-48 kHz on 1 Toslink connector SMUX: 4 channels 88.2-96 kHz on 1 Toslink connector S/PDIF: 2 channels, up to 96 kHz on 1 Toslink connector S/PDIF Coax IN: 2 channels, up to 192 kHz on 1 RCA connector Outputs Analog OUT: 6 balanced outputs on 1 DSUB 25-pin connector AES OUT: Stereo output on 1 male XLR connector Optical OUT: Supports ADAT, SMUX & S/PDIF ADAT: 8 channels 44.1-48 kHz on 1 Toslink connector SMUX: 4 channels 88.2-96 kHz on 1 Toslink connector S/PDIF: 2 channels, up to 96 kHz on 1 Toslink connector S/PDIF Coax OUT: 2 channels, up to 192 kHz on 1 RCA connector Full calibration of analog inputs and outputs via front panel or Apogee Control software Pricing/Availability: Symphony I/O Mk II 2x6 SE Thunderbolt - $2995 - Now shipping worldwide Symphony I/O Mk II 2x6 SE HD - $2995 - Now shipping worldwide Symphony I/O Mk II 2x6 SE Module - $1895 - Now shipping worldwide
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Post by mulmany on Jan 23, 2018 22:00:31 GMT -6
Hmmm. So my MkII converters aren’t as good as they could be? They have to have an up sell!
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 23, 2018 22:38:04 GMT -6
Hmm what are mastering converters normally?
You can drop the module into your chassis for under $2900, what does a Hilo lynx cost: fair bit more right ?
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Post by ragan on Jan 23, 2018 23:00:39 GMT -6
Hmm what are mastering converters normally? You can drop the module into your chassis for under $2900, what does a Hilo lynx cost: fair bit more right ? I think the module only price is $1895.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,940
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Post by ericn on Jan 24, 2018 1:37:18 GMT -6
For the most part Apogee has always been a damn good sounding converter, but no one ever doubted that they could sound better, this was pro en with the AD8000SE, and the BLA mods. Like it or not everything is built to a price point!
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 24, 2018 2:14:30 GMT -6
Typo thx Ragan!
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Post by Quint on Jan 24, 2018 3:08:47 GMT -6
This shit never ends....
That being said, I wish the Symphony didn't have a fan and would support PC. I would probably sell my Apollo 16 and 2192 and go all in with Apogee if they could offer those things. The new 2x6 card paired with the 16 channel ad/da card would be pretty nice.
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Post by adamjbrass on Jan 24, 2018 5:33:21 GMT -6
They finally got around to updating the 2X6 module.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 24, 2018 7:38:29 GMT -6
I must say, the Symphony MkII has been a revelation for me.
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Post by aremos on Jan 24, 2018 8:57:31 GMT -6
I must say, the Symphony MkII has been a revelation for me. In what sense, sonically?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 24, 2018 9:20:14 GMT -6
I must say, the Symphony MkII has been a revelation for me. Please elaborate John. I've enjoyed my Apollo interfaces since they first were introduced. They fulfilled their promise of being able to produce professional sounding music with one box and some plug-ins. But I've had minor issues since day one with the sound falling slightly short of satisfaction. It has to do with the clocking, and maybe the converters or maybe the general design. I imagine it's a price point thing. Double the price tag, and perhaps UAD could make an Apollo Supreme that competes with all the other high end interfaces and converters. Even though I'm in no position to buy anything right now, I like to know where to aim my sights, and so far, every time I hear something done with the Symphony, I like the cinematic vibe, it's bigger, wider, deeper, higher than the Apollo, and I wish I could just buy it and forget about it for a while.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 24, 2018 9:27:24 GMT -6
I must say, the Symphony MkII has been a revelation for me. Told ya !!
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 24, 2018 9:29:52 GMT -6
This shit never ends.... That being said, I wish the Symphony didn't have a fan and would support PC. I would probably sell my Apollo 16 and 2192 and go all in with Apogee if they could offer those things. The new 2x6 card paired with the 16 channel ad/da card would be pretty nice. FYI, I have the 16 now and have never heard the fan agreed: the new 2x6 module would be great and add some extra connectivity in one chassis and all on screen
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Post by mikec on Jan 24, 2018 9:44:27 GMT -6
This shit never ends.... That being said, I wish the Symphony didn't have a fan and would support PC. I would probably sell my Apollo 16 and 2192 and go all in with Apogee if they could offer those things. The new 2x6 card paired with the 16 channel ad/da card would be pretty nice. FYI, I have the 16 now and have never heard the fan agreed: the new 2x6 module would be great and add some extra connectivity in one chassis and all on screen I also use the 16x16 and the fan has never come on while tracking or mixing. This new 2x6 has me really intrigued for expanding my system. Kcat, you need to get one so you can let me know what you think.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 24, 2018 9:53:34 GMT -6
It's not immediately apparent. Well, at least in comparison with the Svartbox and D-box...but it has proven to just have a more relaxed sound altogether and it's ending with much better results. The bottom end is much easier to define now and I'm getting more punch in my mixes than I was before. Also, I still think the Apollo is a bit strident in the upper mids...while the Symphony is smoother. The Apollo and other devices would often lead me to be shy on top while this DA never seems to get strident - unless you're being strident. There is a depth and dimension there too that I didn't seem to be getting before...You can get fantastic results with any of them, this tool has just seemed to save me some time getting there.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 24, 2018 9:55:13 GMT -6
I just can't imagine there will be an audible difference between this and the other non-SE versions. Maybe, somewhere, a dog will go, "Oh - shit - that 8x8 totally didn't nail the 35kHZ..." but for us non-dogs...
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 24, 2018 10:01:52 GMT -6
FYI, I have the 16 now and have never heard the fan agreed: the new 2x6 module would be great and add some extra connectivity in one chassis and all on screen I also use the 16x16 and the fan has never come on while tracking or mixing. This new 2x6 has me really intrigued for expanding my system. Kcat, you need to get one so you can let me know what you think. Great idea: gift me the dough in PP and I will let you know for sure !!
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Post by drsax on Jan 24, 2018 10:45:19 GMT -6
I’m waiting for the mkiii SE LE AE handbuilt, point to point hand soldered version. Lol. Seriously, we are SO spoiled with gear these days. The Converters we question today, including most cheaper consumer level mass produced Converters, make most previous generations of conversion sound like soggy Cheerios. How did we ever get by? I think this is a curious move by Apogee. Their previous gen Converters still sound outstanding. I’m sitting here with a handful of different Converters (Burl, Hilo, Apollo 16, Orion, SVART) and have used countless others, and as much as I love the options, ALL of them have been used on many hits and well regarded recordings. The lead on the biggest hit I ever produced was done through an artist’s laptop on an M-Box. It wasn’t the converter - it was the source. End of story. I love my gear and my Converters, but I would gladly use a first gen symphony any day. Or a second gen, or this mkii se le better than everything else version. And Johnkenn - everything I’ve heard out of you musically the last 10 years is stellar Man. Your voice would sound Great through a 251 and esoteric conversion, or a 57 and a sub $100 interface.
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Post by drsax on Jan 24, 2018 10:50:22 GMT -6
It's not immediately apparent. Well, at least in comparison with the Svartbox and D-box...but it has proven to just have a more relaxed sound altogether and it's ending with much better results. The bottom end is much easier to define now and I'm getting more punch in my mixes than I was before. Also, I still think the Apollo is a bit strident in the upper mids...while the Symphony is smoother. The Apollo and other devices would often lead me to be shy on top while this DA never seems to get strident - unless you're being strident. There is a depth and dimension there too that I didn't seem to be getting before...You can get fantastic results with any of them, this tool has just seemed to save me some time getting there. I’ve heard others mention this. If I didn’t need so many stinking channels, the Symphony would be the probable choice for my studio. I’ll be curious to see the reviews on this new unit once people get some time to work with it
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Post by bradd on Jan 24, 2018 11:36:52 GMT -6
I'm still on the first generation Symphony with no plans to upgrade. I like Apogee, but I get a little annoyed with the speed at which their last generation stuff is made obsolete. If there is one thing I absolutely hate spending money on it's new converters.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 24, 2018 12:10:05 GMT -6
Since I can't buy now anyway, by the time I can, there will probably be a Symphony III with the new converters included.
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Post by Quint on Jan 24, 2018 12:32:22 GMT -6
This shit never ends.... That being said, I wish the Symphony didn't have a fan and would support PC. I would probably sell my Apollo 16 and 2192 and go all in with Apogee if they could offer those things. The new 2x6 card paired with the 16 channel ad/da card would be pretty nice. FYI, I have the 16 now and have never heard the fan agreed: the new 2x6 module would be great and add some extra connectivity in one chassis and all on screen I believe a member (don't remember who) here verified that, with only one module installed, they observed similar absence of fan noise but that, with two modules installed, as would be the case with a 16x16 AND 2x6 installed, there was noticeable fan noise. It seems that it may be the installation of the second module which is causing the kick up in fan noise.
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 24, 2018 13:31:58 GMT -6
"D/A = 131dB (A) dynamic range, -118dB THD+N" That's extremely impressive. Like ericn had pointed out everything is built to a price point, just like when the Pentagon releases the F-35 we all think it's this new technology but it's truly not. Sabre has the new "Pro" chips they're sticking in these custom built DAC's on ebay that would probably blow the doors off anything in mass production right now, and you can buy those things for like $600. I'd imagine the new Symph MKIII will have those chips and Motu will also release a new line with that chip. But, I do wonder as well, if they were to take a BLA modded Symph MkII and measure it after what would it specs be? Noise is surely brought down, dynamic range is surely better, so is it better to pay top dollar on the mass produced or is it better to save, buying the older models used and having them hot rodded. I've always preferred having things hot rodded. It works, the opamps they use in most high-end gear truly isn't the best out there, the OPA16xx series for example, when swapped out in most high-end gear will blow your mind. Something else these new opamps offer is low DC offset and that allows taking a ton of coupling caps out of the path. Getting those caps out of the way, making a "straight wire" amp or signal path will make anything sound much better IME. Bypass caps can help, but getting them totally out of the way is the main goal for me.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 24, 2018 13:36:35 GMT -6
FYI, I have the 16 now and have never heard the fan agreed: the new 2x6 module would be great and add some extra connectivity in one chassis and all on screen I believe a member (don't remember who) here verified that, with only one module installed, they observed similar absence of fan noise but that, with two modules installed, as would be the case with a 16x16 AND 2x6 installed, there was noticeable fan noise. It seems that it may be the installation of the second module which is causing the kick up in fan noise. yes I recall but thought it was the 8 channel module ?
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Post by sozocaps on Jan 24, 2018 15:49:02 GMT -6
It's the natural progression . Better chips better converter specs.
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