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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 7, 2018 22:32:45 GMT -6
Here's something fun. I recently got a custom tube mic from Barbaric Amplification. I wanted something with some character, and Chris at Barbaric suggested the Lundahl LL1940 transformer. Lundahl's data sheet says "For the LL1940 we have chosen a silicon iron C-core (with approx. 10 times as high distortion compared to mu metal) to add more 'transformer character' to the signal." Perfect, right? Anyway, Chris tested three tubes in it - a Western Electric 396A, a 5751, and a 6829. He said he couldn't decide which one he liked best, so he sent all three. A part was delayed originally, so Barbaric sent me a loaner "vG1" prototype which is on here too. Since I was swapping tubes there are obviously some differences in the performances. The files are here: www.dropbox.com/s/oazcmckqub2svyc/tube%20test.zip?dl=0I only get to keep one tube. I'm not really a singer, so this is not about picking what favors me necessarily but about what sounds cool. I want character, but not so much that the mic becomes a one-trick pony. Right now I'm kind of torn between the 396A and the 5751. My kids are asleep so I had to keep it down. Tomorrow I'll try to do something with a little more energy. What do y'all think of the tube samples?
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jan 7, 2018 23:41:49 GMT -6
Of these three examples, the 6829 sounds best. That being said, I don't really like the sound of any of them on your voice (no offense to you or Barbaric.) The top end sounds very distorted in a not pleasing way.
Let me guess. Peluso capsule?
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 8, 2018 8:37:48 GMT -6
No offense taken. The distortion was what I was going for Interesting you like the 6829 but not the distortion, to my ears it had more than the 396A. 3U K47 capsule.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jan 8, 2018 18:06:43 GMT -6
I dunno. That's fine if you dig the sound - that's all that matters. It just doesn't sound "right" to my ears.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 8, 2018 18:19:02 GMT -6
I don't think I would use this mic in your style of music at all! Haha. I appreciate you listening though. Mind going for round two? Here's some louder singing. Sounds different I think. Again, apologies for differences in takes and whatnot. www.dropbox.com/s/wrbsbr2opkezu1u/tube%20test%202.zip?dl=0
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Post by donr on Jan 8, 2018 23:50:52 GMT -6
I'd be concerned that the distortion in all the examples would build up as you compress the vocal in the mix and then compress the mix toward a finished product. Is the rest of the signal chain not contributing to the distortion or is it just the mic?
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jan 9, 2018 0:06:41 GMT -6
I'm still digging the 6829. The way it distorts in the midrange sounds more natural to me - like real acoustic vocal distortion. The high frequencies on the 5751 sound weird. The 396A is second runner up.
I suspect if you EQ some high end into the 6829, the "quality" of the high frequencies will sound better than the others.
What preamp are you running this through? There is enough difference between these tubes in terms of mu that we could be hearing some different distortion characteristic from the first gain stage of the preamp. (Possibly)
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jan 9, 2018 0:09:24 GMT -6
I'd be concerned that the distortion in all the examples would build up as you compress the vocal in the mix and then compress the mix toward a finished product. Is the rest of the signal chain not contributing to the distortion or is it just the mic? Yeah. I agree. If you want it to get hairy, run it through something on the back end to grunge it up. That mic could end up being a one-trick-pony.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 9, 2018 8:55:47 GMT -6
Because of the Hurricane Harvey floods in Houston I don't have access to my studio now, so my testing with different pres is limited. I sent this into the boringest pre I have - onboard in a Komplete Audio 6 interface, peaking around -9 dBFS, -18 average. So there should be nothing else contributing to distortion.
I have tried the vG1 prototype on heavy rock bass guitar using a Stam 1073, and it was extremely useful - texture wise it split the difference between a DI and a close mic'd dynamic. So that's the other side to this, I'm not expecting to use this mic solely on vocal duty. I haven't had a chance to try it on drums, but I suspect it'll be great in places I normally use a LDC - front of kit, room, or mono overhead.
It's interesting...between here and friends the only consensus is almost everyone likes the 396A second best.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jan 9, 2018 9:28:54 GMT -6
Which one do you like best?
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 9, 2018 10:39:21 GMT -6
I like the the WE 396A. I do hear what you're saying about the 6829. I suspect the darker 396A will take compression and EQ better, but again, without access to my studio space I can't really test it. I'm thinking an LA2A and a bit of EQ added on the highs will sound pretty good.
It's not a huge decision either way - a 6829 is not so hard to find, and the change is easy. I can always swap later.
Part of the reason I did this was because I've seen a lot of talk on here about transformers, capsules, etc. but I've never really had the chance to isolate the effect of the tube like this. It's interesting that it does change this much (even though it's hard to be super clinical with this much variation in takes). I suppose I could record something and mic the recording to be more scientific.
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Post by svart on Jan 9, 2018 11:48:37 GMT -6
Personally I liked the 6829 and then the 5751.
I agree that something doesn't sound right with the distortion. Something is amiss in the mic, or the preamp. i don't think this is a case of the tubes causing this.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 9, 2018 12:08:06 GMT -6
I’ll try a different pre tonight.
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 9, 2018 13:43:27 GMT -6
Because of the Hurricane Harvey floods in Houston I don't have access to my studio now, so my testing with different pres is limited. I sent this into the boringest pre I have - onboard in a Komplete Audio 6 interface, peaking around -9 dBFS, -18 average. So there should be nothing else contributing to distortion. I have tried the vG1 prototype on heavy rock bass guitar using a Stam 1073, and it was extremely useful - texture wise it split the difference between a DI and a close mic'd dynamic. So that's the other side to this, I'm not expecting to use this mic solely on vocal duty. I haven't had a chance to try it on drums, but I suspect it'll be great in places I normally use a LDC - front of kit, room, or mono overhead. It's interesting...between here and friends the only consensus is almost everyone likes the 396A second best. I'm not sure that I'd want to use the mic preamp in a $229, USB powered interface to test microphones. In fact I'm pretty certain that I wouldn't...
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 9, 2018 13:48:11 GMT -6
No argument here, brother. But my other preamps are racked and not available. Anyway did one more with the other side. I also let the tube warm up quite a bit longer than the others. I didn't level match this, though - forgot. Just did the 396A. www.dropbox.com/s/gzdfa0dif5dkcu4/2%20396A%202.wav?dl=0
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Post by ragan on Jan 9, 2018 23:55:29 GMT -6
I like the 396A best in all samples. It just sounds the most like something I'd want to start sculpting from. Nothing sticking awkwardly out.
I don't really hear any of these as problematically distorted, myself. It's not a glassy, pristine sound, but my ears don't hear anything 'wrong' with it. Sounds pretty smooth and alive to me.
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