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Post by svart on Jan 21, 2014 9:34:23 GMT -6
Post your tricks and tips here to try to keep them in one place. Maybe once we have enough we could merge them into this top post. I'm sure there will be a lot of overlap or rule of thumb ideas, a lot of which might already be common knowledge. Just put them out there and hopefully they can help someone who might not already know.
1. Don't listen loud. Listen at a level that is right around "talking" loudness. Too loud and you'll fatigue your ears which will make you want to turn it up even louder. The small muscles in the ear will tighten and everything will sound more compressed and punchy, and the Fletcher-munson curve will be exacerbated and leave you with a poor mix.
2. Give your ears a rest. Never try to mix right after tracking. Even if you don't realize it, your ears will be fatigued. Wait a while. go outside and let your ears reset, or wait until the next day. A night's rest will make everything sound much better the next day.
3. Get up and listen somewhere else. We all talk about getting the perfect mix position set up. No matter how good it measures on a computer, it still might not be right. Your brain and ears can do a whole lot more. If you think you have it right, get up and walk around the room. You'll hear the modes change but you might hear peaky-ness that you didn't hear before. You listen on different monitors for your second opinion, now listen elsewhere in the room. You'll be surprised at what you find. Do this with commercial mixes as well and make comparisons.
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Post by svart on Jan 21, 2014 12:54:26 GMT -6
More:
4: EQ your reverb. Either in the send or the return, don't be afraid to EQ your reverb. Reverb will quickly muddy up your midrange if you let it.
5: Use a heavily gated version of the instrument to drive your reverb, that way you don't have bleed muddying up your reverb. I think Andy Wallace uses samples to key his reverbs instead..
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Post by matt on Jan 21, 2014 19:55:32 GMT -6
I am guilty of violating #1, particularly when my partners in crime sit in on a mix session. We like to hear the music rock, and that means loud. Too loud, I know, but there it is.
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Post by matt on Jan 21, 2014 20:20:28 GMT -6
More: 5: Use a heavily gated version of the instrument to drive your reverb, that way you don't have bleed muddying up your reverb. I think Andy Wallace uses samples to key his reverbs instead.. Dave Pensado talks about the "opposite", gating the reverb in the ITL of Pensados Place episode #113, starting at 5:30 in: ITL episode #113 @ 5:30I realize this is nothing particularly new, but I love to see the technique demonstrated. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 22, 2014 13:17:02 GMT -6
More: 5: Use a heavily gated version of the instrument to drive your reverb, that way you don't have bleed muddying up your reverb. I think Andy Wallace uses samples to key his reverbs instead.. Dave Pensado talks about the "opposite", gating the reverb in the ITL of Pensados Place episode #113, starting at 5:30 in: ITL episode #113 @ 5:30I realize this is nothing particularly new, but I love to see the technique demonstrated. Either ways cool, use an uncompressed send, more dynamic IMV |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 22, 2014 17:04:57 GMT -6
#4 is a big one for me. I'd bet that not many take the time to get the reverbs set properly but it makes a world of difference to the whole mix.. Good post.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 18:11:40 GMT -6
Don't be afraid to Eq/Compress on the way in either with outboard or software. Don't wait for the mix stage to get good sounds, and before you start compressing and eqing on input consider your mic choice, placement, instrument selection and tuning. I personally like my snares tuned up pretty high and use piccolo snares a lot.
Quarters taped to the kick drum beater can give you some extra smack.
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Post by noah shain on Jan 22, 2014 20:34:23 GMT -6
I got a kinda whacky one I been doing for a few years:
In the tracking room with the drums, place two snares on the floor, on their sides with the strainers facing each other about 6 inches apart, kinda close to the kit. Put a 58 or some other, not too bright dynamic right between the 2 snares. Cover the whole mess with a packing blanket or something thick. Drive the mic pre a bit and cut out a whole bunch of mid (like 500-1K), add some bottom and low pass it. Then smash with a distressor on Nuke. Kill the transient and bring up the sustain. Super explosive snare verb!!! It'll sound amazing in solo...probably a bit gnarly in the mix but if you gate it and key the gate with your dry snare signal it's super cool!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 8:45:50 GMT -6
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Post by jazznoise on Feb 8, 2014 19:34:48 GMT -6
1. Make your room mics into boundary mics in "hard" rooms to avoid extra comb filtering
2. Delaying your ambience mics can have the same function as adding pre-delay to a reverb. Matching these or separating these delays from the reverb can really alter what the ambiance adds.
3. Avoid solo'ing things for extended periods, or at all, they can throw your perception of a mixes balance.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 8, 2014 19:44:34 GMT -6
What do you mean by #1, Jazz?
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Post by geoff738 on Feb 8, 2014 20:25:17 GMT -6
Somebody on here mentioned using an under snare mic also picking up the kick beater. I'd like to hear more about that. Figure 8? Phase issues? Etc.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by jazznoise on Feb 8, 2014 20:30:26 GMT -6
I'm glad you ask, John!
Well people often throw up Omnis or other broad pattern mics for ambience for drums, strings or brass. In small spaces you can end up with comb filtering as the rear of the mic is hit by the signal at a different time to the front. If the player is 4 feet from the mic and the mic is 2 foot from a wall (purely reflective, hypothetical) then the reflection is delayed 4mS and is only 6dB quieter than the incoming signal. That's going to sound phasey and thin.
A way around this is to put the microphone on the wall, so that there is no rear reflection. Reflections can come from the sides, above, below or behind the source but not behind the mic. So now:
1)The mic is probably as far from the player as you can get it, so most reverb. If it's too much most musicians can simply move forward
2)The ER's are down a reflection (first order reflection/closest) so your pre-delay has now increased
3)Comb filtering has been reduced
4)Because of the boundary effect, you'll find there's a bass boost. Larger surfaces = more bass.
Obviously room treatment complicates this and can also mitigate the necessity. I don't advise mounting mics next to diffusers. In a room with heavy treatment, the floor or ceiling are probably the best bets. Or the room outside. I stuck a mic above a toilet cistern in the adjacent room ("Shitter's Perspective") and it gave a super thrashy drum sound. Worked for the more violent sections.
I have some 50 buck Omnis I do this with all the time. Including my recent explorations into location shooting.
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Post by jazznoise on Feb 8, 2014 20:32:04 GMT -6
Somebody on here mentioned using an under snare mic also picking up the kick beater. I'd like to hear more about that. Figure 8? Phase issues? Etc. Cheers, Geoff I've done that with an AKG D160. Omni dynamic. Works nice - get the balance between the two, take the sub 100hz stuff out and your phase issues should be nominal. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 8, 2014 20:42:33 GMT -6
Nice tip, Jazznoise...
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Post by svart on Feb 8, 2014 22:14:13 GMT -6
I'm glad you ask, John! Well people often throw up Omnis or other broad pattern mics for ambience for drums, strings or brass. In small spaces you can end up with comb filtering as the rear of the mic is hit by the signal at a different time to the front. If the player is 4 feet from the mic and the mic is 2 foot from a wall (purely reflective, hypothetical) then the reflection is delayed 4mS and is only 6dB quieter than the incoming signal. That's going to sound phasey and thin. A way around this is to put the microphone on the wall, so that there is no rear reflection. Reflections can come from the sides, above, below or behind the source but not behind the mic. So now: 1)The mic is probably as far from the player as you can get it, so most reverb. If it's too much most musicians can simply move forward 2)The ER's are down a reflection (first order reflection/closest) so your pre-delay has now increased 3)Comb filtering has been reduced 4)Because of the boundary effect, you'll find there's a bass boost. Larger surfaces = more bass. Obviously room treatment complicates this and can also mitigate the necessity. I don't advise mounting mics next to diffusers. In a room with heavy treatment, the floor or ceiling are probably the best bets. Or the room outside. I stuck a mic above a toilet cistern in the adjacent room ("Shitter's Perspective") and it gave a super thrashy drum sound. Worked for the more violent sections. I have some 50 buck Omnis I do this with all the time. Including my recent explorations into location shooting. I've done something similar that works well. I take LDCs and put them in corners, but facing the wall, about 2 inches away. this kind of turns them into a PZM type of setup. It gives a pre-compressed sound that doesn't sound quite like anything else. it can work really well, or be totally useless depending on the mix though. |
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Post by Ward on Feb 8, 2014 22:19:00 GMT -6
Don't be afraid to Eq/Compress on the way in either with outboard or software. Don't wait for the mix stage to get good sounds, and before you start compressing and eqing on input consider your mic choice, placement, instrument selection and tuning. I personally like my snares tuned up pretty high and use piccolo snares a lot. Quarters taped to the kick drum beater can give you some extra smack. Just tape an old credit card to the kickdrum beater head where the beater makes contact and you won't need to waste your change! And if you really wish to save money, tape all your credit cards (and your spouse's) there too!! |
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Post by Ward on Feb 8, 2014 22:29:29 GMT -6
Somebody on here mentioned using an under snare mic also picking up the kick beater. I'd like to hear more about that. Figure 8? Phase issues? Etc. Cheers, Geoff It has to do with positioning and microphone type/pattern used. If you wish to ONLY get the bottom snare and a thick tone from it, use a Sennheiser MD441 (on M setting in the roll-off dial, and presence switch flat) aimed dead center into the shell of the microphone from the bottom, about 2 1/2 inches off the bottom head. Remember to flip the phase on the preamp or console channel pre! If you wish to get the bottom snare AND the beater a 441 wont do it due to it's hypercardioid pattern. You CAN use a ribbon or other figure of 8 microphone where the microphone is positioned between the kick beater and the snare bottom. Just position it so it is equi-distance from both sources, FLIP THE PHASE, and make sure each side is clearly pointed at a)The Beater impact point and b) the center of the bottom snare head. Can you compress it? Oh hells to the Y E S. an 1176 or distressor does the trick here. 8:1, fast attack, medum release. Input gain coming out of the pre should be -12DBfs on program material average and hitting -6DBfs on peaks from snare cracks. Then a typical 1176 Rev d or F would have input knob on 3 and the output knob on 7.5 to 8. You wouldn't use a Rev A, AB or B on this application. Someone else can comment on distressor settings. Can you EQ it? Oh hells to the Y E S again! the same 4 to 8 khz that gives the kick drum "point" also gives the snare bottom head sizzle. Anything you need to cut?? Well, you can knock out a touch of 1khz... cause that's the paopery sound of the bottom snare but then, it's also part of the attack freq uency spectrum of the kick drum, so be conservative in what you do. You can also knock out a touch of 350hz to make the kick clearer but that's also the warmth and punch area of the snare so... best leave that one alone.
I trust I've been helpful.
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Post by jazznoise on Feb 9, 2014 6:39:08 GMT -6
I'm glad you ask, John! Well people often throw up Omnis or other broad pattern mics for ambience for drums, strings or brass. In small spaces you can end up with comb filtering as the rear of the mic is hit by the signal at a different time to the front. If the player is 4 feet from the mic and the mic is 2 foot from a wall (purely reflective, hypothetical) then the reflection is delayed 4mS and is only 6dB quieter than the incoming signal. That's going to sound phasey and thin. A way around this is to put the microphone on the wall, so that there is no rear reflection. Reflections can come from the sides, above, below or behind the source but not behind the mic. So now: 1)The mic is probably as far from the player as you can get it, so most reverb. If it's too much most musicians can simply move forward 2)The ER's are down a reflection (first order reflection/closest) so your pre-delay has now increased 3)Comb filtering has been reduced 4)Because of the boundary effect, you'll find there's a bass boost. Larger surfaces = more bass. Obviously room treatment complicates this and can also mitigate the necessity. I don't advise mounting mics next to diffusers. In a room with heavy treatment, the floor or ceiling are probably the best bets. Or the room outside. I stuck a mic above a toilet cistern in the adjacent room ("Shitter's Perspective") and it gave a super thrashy drum sound. Worked for the more violent sections. I have some 50 buck Omnis I do this with all the time. Including my recent explorations into location shooting. I've done something similar that works well. I take LDCs and put them in corners, but facing the wall, about 2 inches away. this kind of turns them into a PZM type of setup. It gives a pre-compressed sound that doesn't sound quite like anything else. it can work really well, or be totally useless depending on the mix though. Should be much the same, the directional characteristics means that much of the high end phasing shouldn't be present, though the nulls in the 100-500Hz region will. If it's not doing it for you, and you are going with a 2 feet distance, check for nulls around 140 Hz, 280hz, 420 etc. and see if it's an acoustical problem. If you're losing the fundamental of your snare - well, that'd suck. Though sometimes I just don't like resonant the low end can be in some rooms that the boundary affect can bring up. Life's a beach. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 14:19:18 GMT -6
Don't be afraid to Eq/Compress on the way in either with outboard or software. Don't wait for the mix stage to get good sounds, and before you start compressing and eqing on input consider your mic choice, placement, instrument selection and tuning. I personally like my snares tuned up pretty high and use piccolo snares a lot. Quarters taped to the kick drum beater can give you some extra smack. Just tape an old credit card to the kickdrum beater head where the beater makes contact and you won't need to waste your change! And if you really wish to save money, tape all your credit cards (and your spouse's) there too!! Doing this next time around! |
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Post by svart on Feb 10, 2014 12:09:54 GMT -6
Don't be afraid to Eq/Compress on the way in either with outboard or software. Don't wait for the mix stage to get good sounds, and before you start compressing and eqing on input consider your mic choice, placement, instrument selection and tuning. I personally like my snares tuned up pretty high and use piccolo snares a lot. Quarters taped to the kick drum beater can give you some extra smack. Just tape an old credit card to the kickdrum beater head where the beater makes contact and you won't need to waste your change! And if you really wish to save money, tape all your credit cards (and your spouse's) there too!! Back in the day they taped 50cent pieces on the kick drum heads so they'd get that click sound. I did it by using "fender washers". Now I just buy the click pads at the store. They stick better and don't wear out nearly as quickly as tape does. |
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Post by Ward on Feb 10, 2014 22:26:46 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Feb 20, 2014 23:29:10 GMT -6
Since this thread was placed back in the pro audio section, it got lost in the mire, so I'll bump it from time to time so new folks see it. Unless JohnnyK wants to sticky it..
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