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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2014 21:45:26 GMT -6
Hi guys,
i just chatted with a dear friend of mine, an experienced guitar player, who is on a low budget (retired pro musician) and interfaces his Neumann TLM170 vocal mic with a ZOOM H4N!
Ehm, i guess i am not the only one thinking this is quite suboptimal for recording, even at home....i was a bit shocked...
Options are Firewire, USB2 or the internal soundcards SPDIF on his Mac. OS is OSX 10.9.1, he runs Logic.
From what i know, the mic needs probably around 35-40dB of clean gain for recording, TLM170 is known for not beeing very hot...
The task is finding the most affordable if not cheap solution to not degrade the mic too much to get the signal into the box.
ANY reasonable idea is welcome.
I know he constantly works on demo productions for an upcoming CD, that are still at a high quality level, considering his gear at home ... first one for more than a decade and a simple solution that just gets his tracks in, clean and no-fancy, would probably get him to the point where he can make really good recordings at home (singer/songwriter/instrumentalist, mostly acoustic guitar, he was quite a bit famous in the 70s/80s for his virtuosity in an instrumental acoustical guitar duo...).
I am just brainstorming, but don't get to a point where "low budget" and "not degrade the Neumann" fit's together really. Maybe used gear?
Anyone an idea?
simple stereo conversion would do, 1 micpre that works just clean up to maybe 45-50dB gain is probably sufficient...
Best regards,
Martin
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Post by LesC on Jan 19, 2014 22:05:49 GMT -6
What about an RME UCX? Either using the built-in pre or add a Warm Tonebeast? Way more connectivity than he needs, but solid drivers. Or is that still too expensive?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 19, 2014 22:12:05 GMT -6
Perhaps a used Apogee 1 or 2? It's simple and sounds good.
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Post by Ward on Jan 19, 2014 22:16:58 GMT -6
DEFINITELY go with a Warm Tonebeast or a Focusrite ISA which can give the Neve thickness to the sound. The TLM170 is a great microphone but lacks a little of the weight of the U89i which it is similar to. It is often thought of as being a "transformerless U87" but it holds nothing in common with a U87 besides head basket design. It uses the same diaphragm as the U89 although the electronic circuit responsible for pattern selection, roll-off, pad, preamping and balancing the output is entirely different to the U89's transformer based design.
The Tonebeast is a glorious unit. It is capable of getting that 1073 kind of tone but not limited to it. Likewise, and not widely discussed, the Focusrite ISA110 model works in a similar manner and the best example I can think of like this is the 428 Mark 1, although a couple of colleagues claim the single channel and 2-channel versions are also quite good.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2014 22:30:49 GMT -6
OK, thanks alot guys, man, that was fast...
But, even if i would agree the options you mentioned would fit the situation proabably perfect, yes, LesC, they are still out of reach financially.
Looking for a real minimal solution for very low budget. Improvisation, somehow.
BTW, we are talking about this humble man on the left....if you are interested, there are also some of his old "virtuosity years" tv show appearances from the 70's on youtube....
Still all ideas wellcome!
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Post by LesC on Jan 19, 2014 23:06:22 GMT -6
The guy who was my writing partner for a while was in a similar situation. He ended up getting what I recommended, a Tascam US-122 Mk II, 2 mic/line pres, one with instrument input, phantom power, midi in and out, line out, usb interface, powered from usb. My friend made quite good recordings with the AT4050 I lent him. I've seen them new on ebay for less than $100 US new, around $60 used. The latest version is called a US-322, I think without midi, about $135 US new.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 1:26:39 GMT -6
Thanks LesC,
Tascam IS an option really, i nearly forgot about them. Lots of workhorse devices at affordable pricing, thanks alot.
I will investigate further!
Very appreciated!
BR,
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 3:09:15 GMT -6
BTW, i also looked up everything else recommended here.
Great input.
The Tonebeast looks like a great bargain and from what i can read of the papers a perfect and flexible match for guitar and a voice mic like the TLM170 to give enough character and beef to not sound boringly clean in any way.
Well, needs an AD still...
Not sure, if the ISA ONE which seems to have the 110's eq section would fit the bill the same way...but looks at least like a solid clean device on budget with an optional AD...
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 20, 2014 8:20:16 GMT -6
Look around, a used Duet will get him in the game. They usually top out around $200 on eBay, but on Craigslist you might see one for $125. Also, sometimes when there are a few of the same items up for auction at the same time, they overlap. That means many others interested in a particular thing are already stuck waiting to see if their bid holds, meanwhile the item might fall through those cracks and come up cheap. Also, I bet Guitar Center has some scratch and dent stuff that needs dusting off that might work.
A little leg work on your friend's part will go a long way in this particular instance. Whenever I'm interested in something, I look on Craigslist every morning while having my cup of coffee and search key words for a month, and you'd be shocked what happens if you're on the case. A $400 chair, mint, for $75, a new/barely used Shure mic for $50, you know what I mean I'm sure. I wish your friend good luck.
Also, I see your friend uses Logic. If he has Logic X, he can get an incredible amount of mileage from it without spending another dime. The WA12 is great, I actually did a video about it on youtube, but it isn't necessary for your friend to get his train a rollin'. I did a workshop with a 16 year old guitar student of mine last summer. He'd bought Logic, and a new guitar, so there wasn't a dime left over. As an experiment, we recorded every part of some music he'd written with Logic only. Every plug, guitar amp, compressor, reverb, drummer, everything. It sounds like a frickin' Coldplay record.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 9:23:04 GMT -6
Yeah, the Duets look like they come directly from Apple factories, i mean, they are small, stylish, flat, one knob and funky breakout cables....and of course they are not cheap at all. I found myself instantly looking for an apple logo. And everybody seems to like them of course. Just kidding, couldn't resist.  Thanks for your comments, Martin. Really appreciated. Sure, one can make freaking bargains on lists like craigslist or their european several counterparts (and ebay of course). Good hints and just one question left..... Do they really sound that good? I mean, new they went the price of the rugged ISA ONE including the AD board around here! Wow! Best regards, Martin |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 9:28:41 GMT -6
BTW,
i bought a 40ch console with 4 transistor front and quite warm character, working condition, for 200 Euros like this on ebay, at the morning coffee - INCL. TRANSPORT to my door! Well, that was a good one, shocked me, but in a gocd way...:-)
Good deals can happen if you are ready for it sometimes...
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Post by svart on Jan 20, 2014 9:41:44 GMT -6
no no no no Tascam 122. I've had a few Tascam devices over the years, one being a Tascam US-122mk2 and it was a horrible piece of crap. I had so much trouble with it on both Mac and PC.. When it would work, it had lots of crosstalk between the monitoring sections and the preamps, more when the phantom was engaged, and then it would randomly pop and click regardless of latency settings. This is only the icing on the cake of it randomly locking up and disconnecting, with total reboots necessary to get it working again.
I also had a Tascam MX2424.. THE HORROR.
The duets are decent. Not the highest quality, but good enough to use in this type of setup.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 20, 2014 11:12:08 GMT -6
Svart's right, the Duets are decent. I returned mine, which cost something like $600 at the time, and put that toward an Apollo. Still, it wasn't crap, you could work with it, especially if you get handy using Logic.
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Post by Ward on Jan 20, 2014 14:55:02 GMT -6
Want a really CHEAP preamp that can do the job? Seriously, shake your heads at me now... but I have 2 Aphex 107 Tuebessence preamps and they blow my mind sometimes at how well they work and how good they sound. $100 used for 2 channels.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 22, 2014 13:53:07 GMT -6
You can pick up a used Duet 1 for about 220 US dollars. I actually prefer the original to the Duet 2. Great little interface.
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Post by henge on Jan 22, 2014 14:02:59 GMT -6
Another option might be a used Babyface. Nice and clean sounding with killer drivers and software.
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