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Post by popmann on Jan 8, 2014 13:43:38 GMT -6
So, I started tracking something to send out to someone else for collaboration...and noticed that ALL my BWAV orgins are off--by a lot, but not like Logic is off by an hour (or day, I forget)--a default offset...in fact if I look--EVERYTHING in my preferences is 00:00:00:00....if I EXPORT the file, it gets the right stamp, but I'll tell you how this even came up--I accidentally moved a track....no biggie-just Move>To Origin, right? Gone. Technically--it's somewhere days off on the timeline...but, the point is...this is not acceptable behavior.
I've looked in the VST Engine settings. I've looked in the preferences. In the Timecode/Sync setup. In the Project set up.
I'm about to export everything and pull it into a new project to see if the project is just corrupt in some way...I did change the sample rate at some point early on...maybe that's contributing? Rather than starting at 88...I pulled a 48khz demo/loops from a past demo and recorded some tracks...why don't I like that sound? Oh yeah...change sample rate...maybe that's it...I'll export and get back.
This is the kind of shit where I get obtuse. If I am using Bwav as my NATIVE project format...it needs to timestamp WHERE I RECORD IT...not some randomly corrupt offset...
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 8, 2014 13:59:49 GMT -6
What version of Cubase? This is almost definitely a bug.
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Post by henge on Jan 8, 2014 14:58:45 GMT -6
Did you figure it out?
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Post by popmann on Jan 8, 2014 15:27:15 GMT -6
I just posted details on the Cubase forum, but that place is usually SO unhelpful. I'm about to go into troubleshooting mode--digging through more old projects. Couple things I've found:
It is NOT the sample rate CHANGE in that project--it's present in other projects that were done at 88 from the word go.
It's not in EVERYTHING recorded--ON THE SAME TRACK....in the SAME session...what it appears is that anything recorded from 00 is incorrectly stamped...and everything recorded from mid song is correctly stamped where it was recorded in the timeline.
I'm on the last revision (I think) 6.07 of Cubase6. I DID recently do the upgrade from 6.0 (I think it was just out of the box/DVD...whatever revision that was)...Win7x64....running the 32bit cubase.
Since it's a 00 issue...I'm gonna see if NOT using the MCU's return to zero makes a difference....and use the period on the num pad instead for testing. I'm also going to dig up some 48khz projects...and maybe start a new one...and see if it is a sample rate thing. Pot of coffee brewed....time to fix shit. I SHOULD be laying tracks...but, in a way, I guess I'm glad I found this before going far.
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Post by popmann on Jan 8, 2014 15:50:07 GMT -6
Not sample rate dependent--same behavior in a 44, 48,88,and96 project.
Also--using the period (keyboard) to return to zero. It IS consistent--if I record audio from zero, the time stamp is pooched. If I start the recording from later in the timeline, the timestamp is exactly 1 second off. Which concerns me some, but...but it's placed correctly and even a "move to origin" doesn't move it...so...I mention in case that clues anyone into what's going on...
So, I also took one of these troublestamps...and did the whole "export audio mixdown" to generate a new file....the resulting file has a timestamp of 1:01:01:000 ....which also troubles me, since my imports from other systems 00 is 00:00:00:000....unless it's from Logic where 00 is one day or one hour or whatever their default offset is.
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Post by popmann on Jan 8, 2014 15:56:37 GMT -6
Actually...scratch that...I got it to put a different timestamp from the middle of a track--but, it's not a negative weirdness...and moving to origin in the same project doesn't move it.
64bit Cubase doesn't run (crashes while loading). Likely some plug in that won't initialize.
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Post by henge on Jan 8, 2014 16:12:22 GMT -6
That's some weird shit! I'm interested to see if Reaper exhibits the same behaviour. I always have 8 bars at the beginning of each project so I never start at 00:00.
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Post by popmann on Jan 8, 2014 16:22:33 GMT -6
I always leave an empty bar...and then a bar or two of click....but, I always return to zero to record. Not like I ever intentionally return to bar 2 where the click starts.
I've now initialized Cubase (per Steiny's instructions)...removing it's app data folder...so the whole system is default and nothing works as it need to (luckily I just moved said folders)...but, other than enabling the control room to hear what is going on, I've left things default. Same behavior.
I did find that the difference in the weird time stamp happens whenever you record in the first bar. Like--you could start at beat two--it's the same -2:03:01:124 or whatever...it's different than 00, but only by however far a beat is. Whereas, if you start record 30 bars in, the timestamp is correct.
Also note: I've now set my buffers back to 128....they usually live at 1024 (monitoring analog)...so, I thought that was likely atypical so I changed it--behaves the same. Off to check RME driver revisions. Reinstall Cubase? Worst case, I'll restore my image from when I built the machine....but, it will likely have Cubase4 and Echo drivers...instead of 6 and RME...sand god kows how many plugs I'll have to locate and reauthorize. Times like this make one love dongles...
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Post by henge on Jan 8, 2014 16:27:16 GMT -6
Holy crap! I feel for you man.
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Post by popmann on Jan 8, 2014 16:45:50 GMT -6
Ok...new RME driver...same issue ONLY....get this....different offset. Now, instead of starting at -2:blah....it starts at -1blah...fucking RME. That changed the value, so it has to be related, no?
This is the second machine with the second RME card in it--BOTH driver issues. The first was YEARS ago, having a 9652 in a Gigastudio box. Their GSIF driver gave so many headaches....and their ASIO kept giving me stuck keys in NI's B4...the only two apps I regularly used on the box. Sold it. Replaced with an Maudio. Later with an Echo when I needed more analog outs. Both worked flawlessly. I still have the Echo in a box somewhere, I guess...anyway...if this comes down to being RME, I'm gonna slap myself. I shoulda fucking known better.
I'll download Reaper, too....if I remember their IO compensation didn't even kind of work....but, at least it will let me say if it's the RME across the board, or just in combo with Cubase.
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Post by popmann on Jan 8, 2014 17:15:42 GMT -6
Hey...how do you tell Reaper to move the file to it's timestamp? I can SEE the files having weird timestamps in the "property source"....but, I can't figure out how to tell reaper to put it at the time stamp without just manually reading it and entering it in the item properties, which of course doesn't tell it to read and put it there...
Quick default settings recording in Reaper it seems to timestamp correctly. But, definately shows the weirdness in "adding media file" and picking the weirdly stamped Cubase files.
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Post by popmann on Jan 8, 2014 17:36:28 GMT -6
Move to "source preferred position"....that is truly the worst nomenclature I've ever heard.
To timestamp.
To Origin (cubase)...is stretching it....but, "source preferred position"....wow.
Ok--so, it indeed puts them somewhere I can't find them--the Cubase files with the weird timestamp that is...apparently somewhere 2 days before 00 or something...
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Post by popmann on Jan 8, 2014 18:06:25 GMT -6
As a preliminary report...setting the Preferences>Record>Audio "prerecord seconds" from 1 to 0 seems to have fixed it. FYI. Further testing tonight in actual projects to confirm...but, it's not like I ever changed that--could the 6.07 update have set that to 1 when it used to be 0 as default or something? All I've been doing since the update is mixing other people's stuff...and doing quick demos (which now all have f'd timestamps)...
Now...I have to get my Cubase prefs back...I'm down all my IO FX and controllers...
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 8, 2014 18:56:25 GMT -6
It's almost certainly a corrupt project. Had this happen once or twice in 15 years. Can't explain it either. Exporting is about your only potion I would think. And that is a major pain in the ass, I know.
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Post by popmann on Jan 8, 2014 19:58:13 GMT -6
I've got it. It was the above "prerecord seconds" best I can figure it must've changed that default with the 6.07 update I did a few months ago. Like it was originally 0....and the update "enabled it" to be 1sec...I've now turned it off and on again--with the feature set to 0, there's no timestamping issue....with it set to "1 second", starting near the beginning (I'd venture to say anywhere under one second maybe?) would result in a corrupted timestamp.
I restored all my prefs to get the studio back where it functions fully....flipped that one switch....all it good.
I guess it never mattered for the mixes...since it wasn't an issue with importing...and rendering files is always through the export function...so it just looks like this round of writing demos are pooched (at least they will need to be exported if there's anything I feel like keeping). Not a big deal since I'm moving on to the actual recording phase...had I just discovered this a week from now, I'd be PISSED....well, I AM pissed...lost an afternoon--I really don't feel like playing now. This is the real issue I have with computers in the studio. It's not that I can't fix them. I was an IT guy by trade for many years. But, it's like once I put on the troubleshooting hat, the musician hat is NOT getting put back on. So, whether it takes me some hours like this to isolate...or 15min...it "costs" the rest of the session.
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