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Post by mrholmes on Jul 4, 2017 3:43:59 GMT -6
Everybody remembers our conversation about cheap guitars. I talked to my guitar tech about it and he called me last week and recommended a Cort guitar with Adirondack Spruce top. He told me he had one there which sounded very very good. I have some good contacts and I got one for the retailer price. Ok given the fact that its true that they use good wood. But that's not the only thing to build a great OM. The guitar locks great yes but the rest - OMG. It lacks big time sustain there is no race to my Martins or Morgans even not to some cheap Sigmas which I know from Guitar students. The string separation sucks.... The fret job is just OK but there a dead spots left. Sorry China. Yes its good wood and yes its made with a scalloped bracing. But somewhere in the chain shit can happen and all the nice wood is wasted...why? Why not building something nice by things nature gives us. I just say great specs are not the only thing. Stay away and be proud of your true Martin they know how to do it right. Its not the woods alone its KNOW HOW TO BUILD IT. www.cortguitars.com/de/product/product_view.asp?qCate=00002&qSeries=144&qProdTag=&qPack=&qNew=&qKey=all&qWord=&idx=682 |
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Post by Ward on Jul 4, 2017 6:36:16 GMT -6
The thing about Adirondack spruce is that not all spruce trees from the Adirondacks are created equal. You want to look for RED spruce with a tight growth ring pattern. And when collectors value Martin guitars with Adirondack red spruce tops, that is what they are referring to.
I know a source by the way, who has reclaimed wood that came out of the great lakes from over 100 years ago.
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 4, 2017 13:39:29 GMT -6
the ring pattern is super tight and the guitar also sounds super tight my luthier says i should give it three months it will open up, i never had a guitar that changed so drastic that it will open up by playing it....
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jul 5, 2017 10:19:55 GMT -6
the ring pattern is super tight and the guitar also sounds super tight my luthier says i should give it three months it will open up, i never had a guitar that changed so drastic that it will open up by playing it.... I know there are both sides to the idea that guitars change over time. I'm of the belief that they do. My Martin 000-18ge has changed drastically (for the better) since I got it. There are also times where I haven't played it for 2 months, and it takes a few hours of playing for it to sound "right" to me again. I don't have an explanation, or know the science behind it. I just know what I hear. |
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 5, 2017 16:48:22 GMT -6
Meanwhile my Luthier showed me a 5 K Martin OM with Adirondack Top.
Same story sounds boxed in no nice overtones no sustain...
I doubt that Adirondack from now on story.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 6, 2017 0:26:14 GMT -6
Meanwhile my Luthier showed me a 5 K Martin OM with Adirondack Top. Same story sounds boxed in no nice overtones no sustain... I doubt that Adirondack from now on story. Wood's still a bit green, probably. |
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 6, 2017 15:42:01 GMT -6
Meanwhile my Luthier showed me a 5 K Martin OM with Adirondack Top. Same story sounds boxed in no nice overtones no sustain... I doubt that Adirondack from now on story. Wood's still a bit green, probably. Maybe the wood is just not meant to be a good guitar top?? All friends I asked told me there is a reason why so many players prefer the European spruce. Further more I could research that Adirondack was used in the old times in the USA just because it was the next best thing to use. The rest is marketing based on the vintage voodoo hype. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 6, 2017 18:53:37 GMT -6
Wood's still a bit green, probably. Maybe the wood is just not meant to be a good guitar top?? All friends I asked told me there is a reason why so many players prefer the European spruce. Further more I could research that Adirondack was used in the old times in the USA just because it was the next best thing to use. The rest is marketing based on the vintage voodoo hype. Well, let's see - you're in Europe, right? So it kinda stands to reason you'd see a lot of European spruce over there. I always thought that the preferred wood for steel string acoustic guitar tops was close grained Sitka spruce, which is definitely NOT a European species - it's from Alaska, ranging down to Northern California. (Although I understand that there has has been some Sitka introduced to Ireland and Britain in the 1830s and to Sweden and Denmark in the early 20th century, which might be why you had that impression. It is, however, native to Western North America.) My guess is that the "thing" about Adirondack red spruce is that it's period correct for recreations of the oldest Martin (and Martin-style) guitars, since Martin started out in New York when he came to the US and only moved to Nazareth later. The Adirondack Mountains are, of course in eastern Upstate New York. My guess is that the German luthiers, coming out of the German violin making tradition, probably use some Alpine species but penetration into the world market doesn't seem to be too great right now. |
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 6, 2017 19:45:41 GMT -6
Maybe the wood is just not meant to be a good guitar top?? All friends I asked told me there is a reason why so many players prefer the European spruce. Further more I could research that Adirondack was used in the old times in the USA just because it was the next best thing to use. The rest is marketing based on the vintage voodoo hype. Well, let's see - you're in Europe, right? So it kinda stands to reason you'd see a lot of European spruce over there. I always thought that the preferred wood for steel string acoustic guitar tops was close grained Sitka spruce, which is definitely NOT a European species - it's from Alaska, ranging down to Northern California. (Although I understand that there has has been some Sitka introduced to Ireland and Britain in the 1830s and to Sweden and Denmark in the early 20th century, which might be why you had that impression. It is, however, native to Western North America.) My guess is that the "thing" about Adirondack red spruce is that it's period correct for recreations of the oldest Martin (and Martin-style) guitars, since Martin started out in New York when he came to the US and only moved to Nazareth later. The Adirondack Mountains are, of course in eastern Upstate New York. My guess is that the German luthiers, coming out of the German violin making tradition, probably use some Alpine species but penetration into the world market doesn't seem to be too great right now. Seems you do not know a lot about german Luthiers? You may heard about Lakewood Guitars a very famous and successful brand from Germany they use European Spruce a lot. Even Martin Guitars they use it too. Its most often Sitka or European AAA Spruce tops. At least form what I can play in shops. From having two 000 guitars both with Adirondack but one 10 times more expensive than the other one but both sound like a pain in the ass I can conclude that Adirondack top is more about nostalgic feelings than about a good tone wood. Who wants to buy a bad sounding guitar. Not me. PS: If you ever have the chance to travel around in south Germany visit the small Luthiers. Its not taking a lot to fast get the impression that they also do Nr.1 world class guitars without having a famous brand. Just to name two Joe Striebel and Stefan Sonntag. www.striebelguitars.com/News.htmlwww.sonntag-guitars.com/ |
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 6, 2017 22:26:42 GMT -6
Well, let's see - you're in Europe, right? So it kinda stands to reason you'd see a lot of European spruce over there. I always thought that the preferred wood for steel string acoustic guitar tops was close grained Sitka spruce, which is definitely NOT a European species - it's from Alaska, ranging down to Northern California. (Although I understand that there has has been some Sitka introduced to Ireland and Britain in the 1830s and to Sweden and Denmark in the early 20th century, which might be why you had that impression. It is, however, native to Western North America.) My guess is that the "thing" about Adirondack red spruce is that it's period correct for recreations of the oldest Martin (and Martin-style) guitars, since Martin started out in New York when he came to the US and only moved to Nazareth later. The Adirondack Mountains are, of course in eastern Upstate New York. My guess is that the German luthiers, coming out of the German violin making tradition, probably use some Alpine species but penetration into the world market doesn't seem to be too great right now. Seems you do not know a lot about german Luthiers? Not a huge amount, however I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't saying that German luthiers are not frequerntly great craftsmen/artists, that's not what I was saying. What I was saying is that the German guitar industry doesn't seem to have much global marketing penetration at the moment, compared to guitar builders in some other parts of the globe. I have to say that seeing what excessive "market penetration" has done to some US companies I cannot at all blame them for electing to remain small with integrity intact. Sure, everybody knows about Martin and Stauffer - but that was a long, long time ago when greater Germany was indeed perhaps one of two suppliers (along with Italy) of quality musical instruments. 175 years ago. Actually, not really. I might have seen the name somewhere but it doesn't exactly stick in memory - and I'm pretty certain I've never been in same room with one, at least not that was brought to my attention. I'll look them up. <*cough**cough*> Martin also uses synthetic composites including grahite cloth and resin and various other "modern innovations".... Sadly, I don't that "Used by CF Martin" is necessarily the same indication of quality it once was. I have not had occasion to try a new one, let alone a large enough sample to make generalizations, so I can't really say. It's interesting and possibly useful to know the possibility of an issue, but with such a small sample size one can't draw conclusions. I must say that I really have no interest in Cort - I'm vaguely aware of them as another mid level Asian guitar maker but I really have no interest in budget acoustic guitars. I'll play a lot of budget electrics all day long after a good pickup swap but not acoustics. My '59 J-200 and '64 Guild D-40 are the only two real "guitars of interest" I have left unless you want to count the '30s Slingerland Maybelle (slightly) arched top, round hole guitar, which is really more of a curiosity than anything else. Jack White? Thanks! I doubt that I'll have a chance to go at this stage in my life, but I'd really like to see those shops. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jul 6, 2017 23:57:22 GMT -6
Acoustic guitars are such a curious piece. When I was searching for my "holy grail", what I really wanted was either a D28 or a J45. What's thought I wanted at least...
For three years I saved up and put aside money and would play every acoustic guitar I could get my hands on. I must have played something like 400 guitars at least. What I found was that while I played many really quite beautiful guitars, none of them had the sound I was after. Then I picked up my 000-18 (I believe it's adarondack) at the 14th street GC in NYC and absolutely fell head over heels for this thing. It's so much more a personal experience to me than an electric guitar.
To this day, I've only ever played 2 J45's (new) that were really something special but didn't have the cash for at the time, and 1 HD28 that was spectacular.
Only other acoustic I've lusted after was a d-28 12 fret that was just the most beautiful sound. Unfortunately I still kick myself for not buying it, but the timing just wasn't right for my bank account.
Now, if we are talking vintage guitars... I played a 13 fret Nick Lucas model once and even being raised a good Catholic boy still was trying to figure out how to smuggle it into my car...
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