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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 12, 2014 12:43:20 GMT -6
Thanks. I would never need more than 32x32, ever. Couldn't imagine why anyone would unless they are scoring movies or working in post. I'd probably go with the RME. Never heard one complaint about their drivers. Every says they are rock solid.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 12, 2014 12:53:39 GMT -6
Why? Mothership still isn't an interface. You buying an Avid HD Native Thunderbolt interface system with it? Or switching to Windows where you can get an AES solution? If John had the money in hand...what would a Mothership do for you? Which AES system do you recommend in this scenario? I have no problem considering a Windows machine. Matter of fact, probably will go back to Windows with the next computer. @ Roundbadge I'd love to hear your rig with that 10M. I know it must sound amazing through that console. Why would you go back to Windows?
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 12, 2014 13:04:47 GMT -6
PCI. The new Mac Pros are going eye candy and getting away from pro audio. Plus, why pay the exuberant cost of a Mac Pro anyway when a PC with the same power costs penny's on the dollar? I think my next machine will be Windows, John. No internet, nothing. Not a single program on it anywhere unless it has to do with audio. Solely, a recording machine.
All that said, I'm in no hurry whatsoever to change. This rig I have (Mac Mini) is plenty for me and what I do.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 12, 2014 13:07:02 GMT -6
Gotcha...Yeah - not having PCIe kinda excludes a lot of options...I haven't been on Windows in so long, though...that would make me nervous.
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Post by dandeurloo on Jan 12, 2014 13:46:54 GMT -6
BTW, it's nice to have Roundbadge here.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 12, 2014 14:59:06 GMT -6
BTW, it's nice to have Roundbadge here. +1 A righteous dude indeed.
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Post by popmann on Jan 12, 2014 15:48:38 GMT -6
Gotcha...Yeah - not having PCIe kinda excludes a lot of options...I haven't been on Windows in so long, though...that would make me nervous. That's warranted, IME. That said...Apple has been busy shitting on pro audio needs. Between turning Logic in to "GarageBand Pro"...becoming direct competition for other DAWs...I thought I wouldn't live long enough to see MOTU port to Windows. I'd be interested to see the Avid roadmap. Their current top teir systems are now unusable on a new Mac....without buying some third party PCIe chassis. I know BobO has been running a Windows TDM system for years and says its more stable than the Apple TDM rigs he's worked with. Many reports that PT Native performance is far more capable on Win now... I love Apple. I've used their computers personally for my whole life. I own 3 now...and who knows how many iThings. But, I don't see a day when I'll go back to using them in the studio. I mean--O do use the Air with the Kronos some for soft synths...but, even there, the latency is SO much worse with core Audio than ASIO on Windows that for anything percussive, I'm gonna open it on the big DAW--even though that's more of a PIA, in terms of routing and such to set up (versus just plugging in a USB cable to the Kronos).
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 12, 2014 20:29:39 GMT -6
PCI. The new Mac Pros are going eye candy and getting away from pro audio. Plus, why pay the exuberant cost of a Mac Pro anyway when a PC with the same power costs penny's on the dollar? I think my next machine will be Windows, John. No internet, nothing. Not a single program on it anywhere unless it has to do with audio. Solely, a recording machine. All that said, I'm in no hurry whatsoever to change. This rig I have (Mac Mini) is plenty for me and what I do. I agree, the only problem with this plan is. U NEED the net to update Software and OS..?
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Post by Guitar on Jan 12, 2014 21:10:33 GMT -6
You can easily use Device Manager to disable the network cards, and enable them for occasional updates. That's what I do on my Cubase partition, works just fine.
Once you've got the core, major Windows updates, the service packs I think they are called, you can pretty much skip all the little ones that come all the time. From what I have heard they are very minor things. So basically do a major setup, and then freeze the system there. Go online once in a while for interface driver updates and whatnot. You can skip antivirus, firewalls, etc with no regular web connection. You can also set up a dual boot partition for general web browsing or whatever on a second hard drive and drown it in programs and garbage. This is what I do on a shared home/studio computer.
Windows machines are pretty flexible, I think that's one of their major strong suits.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 12, 2014 21:19:57 GMT -6
maybe late to the party but I recently had a 2192, b2 adc and my bla modded apollo and a bla micro clock mk ii here
posted clips at soundcloud kcatthedog same tune just comparing the 2192 ad/da to b2 da with blapollo da to the blapollo ad/da'
for the test I used each unit's internal clock
while using the blapollo normally I preferred slaved to bla microclock
anyway google soundcloud kcatthedog clips can be downloaded they are at 44.1@ 24 bit currently blind; listen first then I will id them ;
tried to match level them close not perfect
I run pro tools 10 set up was easy just spdif
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 12, 2014 21:32:59 GMT -6
maybe late to the party but I recently had a 2192, b2 adc and my bla modded apollo and a bla micro clock mk ii here posted clips at soundcloud kcatthedog same tune just comparing the 2192 ad/da to b2 da with blapollo da to the blapollo ad/da' for the test I used each unit's internal clock while using the blapollo normally I preferred slaved to bla microclock anyway google soundcloud kcatthedog clips can be downloaded they are at 44.1@ 24 bit currently blind; listen first then I will id them ; tried to match level them close not perfect I run pro tools 10 set up was easy just spdif [br What's your feeling as a user of all these? Who wins and why? Thanx
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Post by popmann on Jan 12, 2014 22:18:14 GMT -6
PCI. The new Mac Pros are going eye candy and getting away from pro audio. Plus, why pay the exuberant cost of a Mac Pro anyway when a PC with the same power costs penny's on the dollar? I think my next machine will be Windows, John. No internet, nothing. Not a single program on it anywhere unless it has to do with audio. Solely, a recording machine. All that said, I'm in no hurry whatsoever to change. This rig I have (Mac Mini) is plenty for me and what I do. I agree, the only problem with this plan is. U NEED the net to update Software and OS..? Why? That's actually a different paradigm. Why do you need to update an OS? Or the DAW for that matter? No...mine is offline. I have a USB wireless adapter for plugging in to upload backups/archives to my NAS. But, it's really not a big deal...if I need to download some new plug or update for something I just do--on another computer. But, I think the goal with Windows is to configure the box as a fixed function device. Apple is fine with being able to do it all. Windows is not, IME. You get everything configured and working...use the built in imaging in Win7 to take a snap shot...and at any hint of trouble, you restore it from the image. This is actually the danger in all these stupid machine authorizations (versus eLicenser/iLok)...you start needing to have them online...or you jump through hoops to get offline authorizations for the machine (the better option IMO). Meanwhile, with the iLok, I plug it into another machine....download my auths...and plug it into the offline machine. Pretty simple. Here, it's even cross platform--I download them on a Mac...plug them into a PC.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 12, 2014 22:21:22 GMT -6
Ah the difficult part
I honestly would have like to keep them all. The Blapollo is my main interface. I kept the b2 adc and sold 2192 and micro clock
for me it was naturalness, hi fi, soundstage ,resolution and versatility. I think you could make the b2 sound like the 2192 not so much the other way around
The longer meters and ability to drive the b2 are nice features conversely the 2192 is ad and da independent not in series also very useful and more of a comm hub but it has a more stylized voice
I have a little debt otherwise would have kept both you want beautiful vintage presence and rolled off top grab a 2192: want a more contemporary also beautiful more open and natural sound that you can arguably more easily tailor: grab the b2
The b2 is essentially the 2192 mkii.
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Post by popmann on Jan 12, 2014 22:30:08 GMT -6
anyway google soundcloud kcatthedog clips can be downloaded they are at 44.1@ 24 bit currently blind; listen first then I will id them ; A vinyl record from the 70s? at 44.1? I'll still listen...though, I'm skeptical what a conversion of vinyl will show.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 12, 2014 22:53:40 GMT -6
I agree, the only problem with this plan is. U NEED the net to update Software and OS..? Why? That's actually a different paradigm. Why do you need to update an OS? Or the DAW for that matter? No...mine is offline. I have a USB wireless adapter for plugging in to upload backups/archives to my NAS. But, it's really not a big deal...if I need to download some new plug or update for something I just do--on another computer. But, I think the goal with Windows is to configure the box as a fixed function device. Apple is fine with being able to do it all. Windows is not, IME. You get everything configured and working...use the built in imaging in Win7 to take a snap shot...and at any hint of trouble, you restore it from the image. This is actually the danger in all these stupid machine authorizations (versus eLicenser/iLok)...you start needing to have them online...or you jump through hoops to get offline authorizations for the machine (the better option IMO). Meanwhile, with the iLok, I plug it into another machine....download my auths...and plug it into the offline machine. Pretty simple. Here, it's even cross platform--I download them on a Mac...plug them into a PC. Sounds like a pita to me, That's why I use a Mac Pro, I stay online, current, and hassle free, if u want to dick around with offline hassles, do it, but don't act like I have 2 heads because I bring up a legit Concern that differs from ur paradigm pop. U have some valid points, but the my way or the hi way vibe in ur posts is getting tiresome bro
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Post by popmann on Jan 12, 2014 23:37:16 GMT -6
I can't tell anything from the vinyl. It all sounded like a grainy old Stones record on scratchy vinyl. Couple things I noted:
--the one with no number had the most high frequency extension....for better or worse made the surface noise louder. --the one labeled with an appended "2" is a few DB less average RMS...making it really not a gain matchable comparison--vinyl won't give a consistent enough playback to use phase cancellation to match them. If you bump it 2.5db to make up for the difference in RMS, the peak will be louder...the other two, once peak matched were matched withing an amount I don't think anyone would take issue with.
I figure the vinyl was the only analog audio source you had that would be semi consistent to compare? Hopefully you made your decisions based on more testing...?
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 13, 2014 5:25:35 GMT -6
Yes used the record just as a constant analog source and yes i kept all 3 for a couple of months and used them with my recordings The b2 kind of snuck up on me basically each unit is at the roughly 3 grand price point so I wasn't expecting one to leap out I posted other comparisons on cowboy's main apollo site OTSTCBN and for me thats when the b2 came out on top No hype just a natural polished and detailed sound, little bigger, more open: it just doesn't sound wrong The apollo with the bla mod and micro clock is about a $1,300 upgrade full retail but both the 2192 and b2 added to that sonically as you would expect a mastering grade converter to do Its easy to get the 2192 metres to show clip not hear as it is supposed to round like analog but found the b2 easier to set and to drive the drive with its stepped input control Bottom line, both very good but same designer and he knew what he felt needed to be changed to be "better", but we all hear differently If people want I'll find the other site's screen reference and post it was comparing one of my tunes acoustic song std rock backing no keys .
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Post by matt on Jan 13, 2014 8:31:15 GMT -6
Yes used the record just as a constant analog source The sound of the needle dropping into the groove gave me an unexpected warm/fuzzy sensation. It occurs to me that the experience of listening to music is lessened by digital delivery. Pulling up a song list on the iPod is just not the same as spinning a disc. Not as engaging, or intimate. I know this is not an original idea by any means, but I have never thought this way until now. Maybe that's why vinyl sales are up. I'm getting back into it, just for fun. My Burl B2 AD is the core of my system. I run it at 192 and Sample Rate Convert to 48K via Apollo's S/PDIF inputs. I have been intending to clock from the Burl @48k but everything sounds so damn good I haven't bothered to change things around. Even bought the cable. Thoughts on this?
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Post by matt on Jan 13, 2014 8:42:44 GMT -6
Also thinking about DA for the 2-bus. It seems that there are a lot more B2 ADCs out there than DACs though. I'm wondering about the value of monitoring through a Burl instead of the Mon outs on the Apollo, particularly since I'm mixing ITB. Gonna upgrade my monitors first and then see.
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 13, 2014 11:30:19 GMT -6
Also thinking about DA for the 2-bus. It seems that there are a lot more B2 ADCs out there than DACs though. I'm wondering about the value of monitoring through a Burl instead of the Mon outs on the Apollo, particularly since I'm mixing ITB. Gonna upgrade my monitors first and then see. Matt, I hated the monitor section in the Apollo. It sounded alright until I hooked the Dbox up to it and A/B'd them. If I was to use the apollo again I would not use it without a dedicated DA monitor box and the D'Box is perfect because you can get a true analog feed from it.
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Post by popmann on Jan 13, 2014 12:28:30 GMT -6
Also thinking about DA for the 2-bus. It seems that there are a lot more B2 ADCs out there than DACs though. I'm wondering about the value of monitoring through a Burl instead of the Mon outs on the Apollo, particularly since I'm mixing ITB. Gonna upgrade my monitors first and then see. Matt, I hated the monitor section in the Apollo. It sounded alright until I hooked the Dbox up to it and A/B'd them. If I was to use the apollo again I would not use it without a dedicated DA monitor box and the D'Box is perfect because you can get a true analog feed from it. That's not the first time I've heard that...but, it's it the DA or the dedicated analog monitor outs? This is of course way the hell of the subject, but I thought UA was brilliant for including digital controlled analog outs for monitor level--so that you are always outputting full digital res and attenuating analog. I wonder though how much of the dislike is based around the implementation of the principle...and how much on the misunderstanding or calibration of it? It's a solid principle. You SHOULD be controlling the level of the monitor feed analog...as the Dbox is, too, FWIW...I just wonder where the ball got dropped. Have you plugged DA 3+4 ( or two just not the monitor DA) into the DBox's analog? Thens Spdif into the Dbox....then you can actually compare the DA of on unit to another without inserting another analog attenuation circuit in the mix. To clarify--never used the units...so, I'm not saying you're incorrect that the Dbox DA was better...I am saying one needs to compare apples to apples, though. In fact, I'd get out the test tones, since I'm pretty sure all the summing inputs of the Dbox are attenuated in order to gain apparent headroom...no idea if they're doing the same thing to the analog monitor ins...but, I'd be careful without making sure levels are equal.
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Post by matt on Jan 13, 2014 13:15:47 GMT -6
I already have a Monitor-ST, so a DAC would make sense if I decide to stay with Dangerous for DA conversion. But I am thinking Burl in --> Burl out as being the most, er, slutty, option.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 13, 2014 14:03:15 GMT -6
I already have a Monitor-ST, so a DAC would make sense if I decide to stay with Dangerous for DA conversion. But I am thinking Burl in --> Burl out as being the most, er, slutty, option. WTH???
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Post by roundbadge on Jan 13, 2014 14:30:27 GMT -6
BTW, it's nice to have Roundbadge here. Aw shucks thanks guys. Glad to be here!
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Post by matt on Jan 13, 2014 14:31:30 GMT -6
I already have a Monitor-ST, so a DAC would make sense if I decide to stay with Dangerous for DA conversion. But I am thinking Burl in --> Burl out as being the most, er, slutty, option. WTH??? Sorry. I was using the term in the most generic sense, I assure you. If the hat fits, sometimes you just gotta wear it.
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