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Post by johneppstein on Jul 6, 2017 0:17:02 GMT -6
Really? It always baffles me when I hear a person claim he doesn't have problems with Windows. They are nothing but trouble... but unfortunately, market share and higher production numbers, lead to lower prices which makes people fall for the false promise. I still think M$ are a perfidious bunch, to put it mildly. My childhood best friend held more patents at Microsoft than even Bill Gates did, but once leaving he switched everything to Apple. Not because he didn't like his work, he just didn't trust the backbone architecture of the great sloth. My experience and yours are different. It's obvious that there's no solution other than everybody to go with their preferences. I find it interesting that Mac guys (out of long ingrained habit, I believe) are always talking about how much trouble PCs are and how much more stable Macs are - but every few months Apple seems to have a need to introduce a new version of the OS which (judging by what people say online every time it happens) always introduces a raft of new problems, not the least of which seem to be incompatiilities with their own damn DAW software! And then there's their insistance on changing hardware configurations just for the sake of being new and different (and, of course, forcing all their customers to buy a bunch of new stuff because all their perfectly good old stuff is no longer compatible with the new versions - which, of course, is a huge cash cow for the company...) I generally have very, very few problems with Windows (but I never, ever run the newest version - which is less of a problem because they don't have the same sort of aggressive planned obsolescence that Apple does), as far as I can tell definitely no more than Mac guys have and probably less. And with Windows you can usually add on whatever new type hardware comes out just by adding the appropriate hardware, rather than upgrading the entire shebang. Sometimes you do have to wait a little bit for it, but I don't necessarily regard that as a bad thing. When you get right down to it, I don't think there's really a whole lot of difference at this point aside from Apple's aggressive upgrade policies and extra cost. And their slick designer styling, of course, which I really could not care less about - my PC lives in a big, black, ugly rackmount server case. I do suspect that at least a significant portion of the bad rap Windows gets might have something to do with the proprietary stuff that a lot of the big PC makers saddle their products with, but that's not MS's fault.
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Post by M57 on Jul 6, 2017 3:58:50 GMT -6
When you get right down to it, I don't think there's really a whole lot of difference at this point aside from Apple's aggressive upgrade policies and extra cost. And their slick designer styling, of course, which I really could not care less about - my PC lives in a big, black, ugly rackmount server case. I do suspect that at least a significant portion of the bad rap Windows gets might have something to do with the proprietary stuff that a lot of the big PC makers saddle their products with, but that's not MS's fault. It really is six of one.. These days, everything gets the job done. The update problem is ubiquitous. For professional users, you just have to play the game and ride older software out until you have to have the latest and greatest and safest. My Mac is expensive (relatively speaking), but over the counter it doesn't come saddled with junk. My Mac is expensive, but Logic is dirt cheap and never needs a paid upgrade. My Mac is expensive, but out of the box the environment is safer; if I was a bit more tweaky/geeky, I'd probably have a PC. AFAIC, those of us who rock Macs are grateful that MS and Google etc. are out there, keeping Apple in check to at least some degree. I hope this debate/conversation lasts forever. I'll take market forces over a monopoly every day of the week.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 6, 2017 5:42:11 GMT -6
When you get right down to it, I don't think there's really a whole lot of difference at this point aside from Apple's aggressive upgrade policies and extra cost. And their slick designer styling, of course, which I really could not care less about - my PC lives in a big, black, ugly rackmount server case. I do suspect that at least a significant portion of the bad rap Windows gets might have something to do with the proprietary stuff that a lot of the big PC makers saddle their products with, but that's not MS's fault. It really is six of one.. These days, everything gets the job done. The update problem is ubiquitous. For professional users, you just have to play the game and ride older software out until you have to have the latest and greatest and safest. My Mac is expensive (relatively speaking), but over the counter it doesn't come saddled with junk. My Mac is expensive, but Logic is dirt cheap and never needs a paid upgrade. My Mac is expensive, but out of the box the environment is safer; if I was a bit more tweaky/geeky, I'd probably have a PC. AFAIC, those of us who rock Macs are grateful that MS and Google etc. are out there, keeping Apple in check to at least some degree. I hope this debate/conversation lasts forever. I'll take market forces over a monopoly every day of the week. Agreed on the market forces! Without them all we have is....American radio!
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Post by marten on Jul 6, 2017 5:57:52 GMT -6
"Even with buying a good, solid, PC setup, you'll still save a LOT of money over Macs, and have many years of reliable performance." That's funny. Last time check to buy a 8 core PC it cost 250$ more than buying a Mac. On top of that i needed to build it, fuck around with Windows and not get tech support. Some people really believe it worth it?
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Post by svart on Jul 6, 2017 7:15:36 GMT -6
"Even with buying a good, solid, PC setup, you'll still save a LOT of money over Macs, and have many years of reliable performance." That's funny. Last time check to buy a 8 core PC it cost 250$ more than buying a Mac. On top of that i needed to build it, fuck around with Windows and not get tech support. Some people really believe it worth it? Well, for one, I don't think you need 8 cores in a windows PC to match performance from a MAC running Apple OS.. But there's also this guy who knows that even extinct PC gear works better with Apple OS than macs do.. digg.com/video/hackintosh-70-dollars
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Post by Bender on Jul 6, 2017 12:21:13 GMT -6
Now that 70 dollar crapintosh is what I'm talking about
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Post by Ward on Jul 7, 2017 5:48:51 GMT -6
svart that last paragraph/sentence is bang-on. Convergence is happening, whether we like it or not.
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Post by marten on Jul 7, 2017 6:47:36 GMT -6
Well, for one, I don't think you need 8 cores in a windows PC to match performance from a MAC running Apple OS.. But there's also this guy who knows that even extinct PC gear works better with Apple OS than macs do.. digg.com/video/hackintosh-70-dollarsKinda funny you know about my needs without knowing anthing about me. How much time and research did the guy put on his crapintosh? Take 70$ and add 2 weeks of part time work (let's say 500$/week) and his crapintosh costs 1070$.........not 70$.
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Post by Ward on Jul 7, 2017 8:39:53 GMT -6
marten "Crapintosh" QUALITY!!! LOL
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Post by svart on Jul 7, 2017 8:51:30 GMT -6
Ya'll just salty.
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Post by properagenda on Jul 7, 2017 15:38:55 GMT -6
Well, even though I'm not the brightest, it still only took me two evenings after work to get my current hackintosh going. Perhaps, add a day on top of that for so called "research", and I'm being rather generous with needing that much time. So from where I stand, it takes a "special kind of brightness" to need a whole two weeks of research into building a hackintosh. Unless you have absolutely no knowledge and/or experience of working with computers. Even then, there's no shortage of step-by-step instructions out there that anyone with an ounce of common sense and patience can easily follow. It's like a saying: where there's a will, there's a way. That's my take on it anyways.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jul 7, 2017 23:19:13 GMT -6
who cares make or mix some dam music 😂😎
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Post by popmann on Jul 8, 2017 14:52:37 GMT -6
The part missed here is that Kennedy is looking at cheap RETAIL Windows machines.....and wondering if he can use those to replace his gaining 2012 MacMini.
The answer to that is actually not too nuanced or debatable: "not really". I feel pretty confident that will end very badly for him....which has little to do with the operating system involved. That's a huge Babel point in this discussion always on music forums. One thing is indisputable:
-I can go to the Apple Store in the mall and get a 4.4ghz Kaby Lake i7 machine with a 1tb nvme chip PCIe storage and 16gb RAM.....with a gorgeous display.....swing by Guitar center and buy a "partner" hardware IO--Apogee, UA.....or non partner but professionally supported RME/MOTU level Thunderbolt or USB (depending on IO requirements) on the way home---plug that up, install some software....and have what is faster than EVERYONE HERE'S music production workstation TONIGHT.
There is not equivalent to that in the retail Windows world. Turnkey mail order DAWs with preinstalled drivers and software with restore disks with all that baked in.....and the closest....and nearly always MORE expensive out of the gate (vs TOC) compared to the above iPimpMac.
Of course Kennedy can correct me if I mistook his desire to buy a retail Windows machine to save money....
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Post by viciousbliss on Jul 9, 2017 15:51:11 GMT -6
Check out all the computing power you can buy for less than $500 www.portatech.com/products/category.cshtml?id=1239Based on all the tests I've seen where people were using Kramer tape, a Ryzen 1700 should have more than adequate power to run a pretty big session at 96k using a lot of demanding plugs. If I recall, one test got at least double the amount of Kramers that the Waves Soundgrid Extreme Server gets. In a few weeks I think AMD Threadripper comes out. The new Intels are already out and one seems to have more power than a 6950x with a cheaper price tag. If one is just looking to beat out a 2012 machine by a good margin, I imagine one of these cheaper Ryzens on there should do the trick. The 6700k-based machine I'm using at the moment can run plenty of demanding stuff.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 11, 2017 13:09:04 GMT -6
To answer the original post, Thunderbolt has to be natively supported at the motherboard level. There is no way to add it via pcie, etc, if the Motherboard is not spec'd for it.
If you click on this link: UAUDIO HELP there are a short list of Windows laptop machines, and 'DIY' motherboards tested and officially endorsed for Apollo by UA.
I just ordered the Gigabyte Gaming 7 so by the end of the next month or two I'm going to have two machines running Focusrite/UA Thunderbolt interfaces.
Building a PC should not be hard for someone technical enough to be described as an audio expert. In fact, it should be a breeze. Anyway I have a good time with it. And PC parts are ridiculously affordable for the power you get these days.
On the tired old debate, I've been using Windows for 25 years. So of course I've had my fair share of problems. Windows 10 is really a great modern OS, in my opinion. And I'm running all sorts of apps, connected to the internet, etc, and everything is running super smooth.
Some credit to Focusrite and UA as well for their rock-solid drivers. It really pays to shop with the big boys in terms of interface support and driver quality.
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Post by adamjbrass on Jul 13, 2017 7:24:22 GMT -6
I recently configured a Dell Precision 7510 Quad-Core i7 for use with Merging Pyramix and also Video Editors. As well, I would like to be able to run Schmo Tools 10, as I have the license. Just can't find the installer. I may never find that, and I may never care. Anyway, It took me about 3 months to configure this here Pyramix system with the optimizations. The amount of shit you have to do to configure Windows is mind blowing. If you are a Super Nerd with High-Functioning ADHD like me, you will be totally cool. The patience and persistence was totally worth it to record at 192K/DSD rates.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 13, 2017 11:10:53 GMT -6
If you have PT 12 there should also be a pt 10 download in your product page.
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Post by svart on Jul 13, 2017 12:44:34 GMT -6
The part missed here is that Kennedy is looking at cheap RETAIL Windows machines.....and wondering if he can use those to replace his gaining 2012 MacMini. The answer to that is actually not too nuanced or debatable: "not really". I feel pretty confident that will end very badly for him....which has little to do with the operating system involved. That's a huge Babel point in this discussion always on music forums. One thing is indisputable: -I can go to the Apple Store in the mall and get a 4.4ghz Kaby Lake i7 machine with a 1tb nvme chip PCIe storage and 16gb RAM.....with a gorgeous display.....swing by Guitar center and buy a "partner" hardware IO--Apogee, UA.....or non partner but professionally supported RME/MOTU level Thunderbolt or USB (depending on IO requirements) on the way home---plug that up, install some software....and have what is faster than EVERYONE HERE'S music production workstation TONIGHT. There is not equivalent to that in the retail Windows world. Turnkey mail order DAWs with preinstalled drivers and software with restore disks with all that baked in.....and the closest....and nearly always MORE expensive out of the gate (vs TOC) compared to the above iPimpMac. Of course Kennedy can correct me if I mistook his desire to buy a retail Windows machine to save money.... I don't see how this is true. you can buy a PC today, then go buy whatever interface you want and install it today as well. Just go get a 600$ NUC or zbox (and you're good as long as you don't need to install a card) and you're already ahead of the game by beating Mac specs at half the price.
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Post by popmann on Jul 13, 2017 12:54:39 GMT -6
Anyway, It took me about 3 months to configure this here Pyramix system with the optimizations. The amount of shit you have to do to configure Windows is mind blowing. If you are a Super Nerd with High-Functioning ADHD like me, you will be totally cool. The patience and persistence was totally worth it to record at 192K/DSD rates. That's absurd. Don't anyone mistake my post above....retail experience aside, IME, there's little particular advantage in Apple systems for professional level music production. I know nothing of Pyramix DSD systems and what they require (but don't document for you in a $50k+ system? They should really be providing the $1500 PC hardware preconfigured for a $50k recorder).....I promise you I can tweak NOTHING on a fresh Windows7 install and record 192 PCM all day. This IS actually what I meant in the above--WINDOWS is not the issue. There's not a million SOFTWARE configurations needed on a Windows machine EVEN for the exponentially more resource demanding job of music creation (as opposed to straight audio record/edit).... If you take your example of needing 192 or 384(DXD) bandwidth. Depending on track count--this is where you need the nvme drive's bandwidth just for audio, or maybe you need to RAID0 some 850 SSDs....and where Xeon level 12-24core processing can come in handy. Where your audio interface MUST be a PCIe card system for getting the IO handled. But, outside of that, a literally vanilla retail (meaning retail box license from MS--not retail computer) Windows 10 install will not need any tweaking post install, unless loading drivers is "tweaking" to you. But, that's an hour....not three months.
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Post by adamjbrass on Jul 14, 2017 8:15:36 GMT -6
Anyway, It took me about 3 months to configure this here Pyramix system with the optimizations. The amount of shit you have to do to configure Windows is mind blowing. If you are a Super Nerd with High-Functioning ADHD like me, you will be totally cool. The patience and persistence was totally worth it to record at 192K/DSD rates. That's absurd. Don't anyone mistake my post above....retail experience aside, IME, there's little particular advantage in Apple systems for professional level music production. I know nothing of Pyramix DSD systems and what they require (but don't document for you in a $50k+ system? They should really be providing the $1500 PC hardware preconfigured for a $50k recorder).....I promise you I can tweak NOTHING on a fresh Windows7 install and record 192 PCM all day. This IS actually what I meant in the above--WINDOWS is not the issue. There's not a million SOFTWARE configurations needed on a Windows machine EVEN for the exponentially more resource demanding job of music creation (as opposed to straight audio record/edit).... If you take your example of needing 192 or 384(DXD) bandwidth. Depending on track count--this is where you need the nvme drive's bandwidth just for audio, or maybe you need to RAID0 some 850 SSDs....and where Xeon level 12-24core processing can come in handy. Where your audio interface MUST be a PCIe card system for getting the IO handled. But, outside of that, a literally vanilla retail (meaning retail box license from MS--not retail computer) Windows 10 install will not need any tweaking post install, unless loading drivers is "tweaking" to you. But, that's an hour....not three months. Its not absurd, its a hobby!! I didn't spend every day on it. Its called a project, which starts when you get a computer and ends when you are happy with the way it works. Sorry, but anything other is misleading to the people reading my post. Merging Technologies systems are not easily understood. Some people do find them "absurd". or perhaps they do not have the fortitude to figure it out. Either way, not many people are using this stuff. Firstly, my comment was not strictly about using 192K on a Personal Computer Computer, it was using it with Native Pyramix. Which is quite a ways more complicated than Reaper is. Or another DAW> Just an observation I have made in my travels. And yes, Merging does offer high end "Turn Key PC" that are designed for use with Their Masscore Rigs, [which is VERY complicated] but could be used with any ASIO native crap if you wanted to. Though, they customize them for use with Merging Software-Pyramix and Masscore, which is super advanced. And it only took me 15 minutes to configure my Pro Tools Mac.
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ericn
Temp
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Post by ericn on Jul 14, 2017 9:21:12 GMT -6
I'm sticking to my radar24/V it just works!
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 15, 2017 15:14:07 GMT -6
Merging runs a second real time OS on one or some of the CPU cores that is used for their signal processing. At the time I learned about it they were using a modified version of WaveLab as their host DAW.
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