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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 10, 2017 8:52:39 GMT -6
I'm hanging onto my '12 Mac Mini as long as possible, but the PC prices are so low for what you get, I might have to go that route. But I'm wondering about thunderbolt - can you add a thunderbolt pcie card? Is it even called pcie anymore? It has been so long.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 10, 2017 9:18:53 GMT -6
I'm hanging onto my '12 Mac Mini as long as possible, but the PC prices are so low for what you get, I might have to go that route. But I'm wondering about thunderbolt - can you add a thunderbolt pcie card? Is it even called pcie anymore? It has been so long. I've been researching this as well. According to Pete Brown from Microsoft, Thunderbolt 3 Audio devices can be built for Windows 10 PC's. However, the motherboards for self builds-where when done right price and performance are really good- and pre built PC's are just rolling out as far as I can tell. That Pete Brown thread - despite being Purple- is a good one because it explains some of the complexity. For example, it's PCIe over TB over USB-C. A I was looking at the Apollo 16 for PC/Windows and it has the specification "PC computer with built-in Thunderbolt 3 via USB-C port." Down in Pete Brown thread he talks about some of the Thunderbolt 3 via USB-C port PC's already available. For someone like me who doesn't have a motherboard with a built in Thunderbolt connection, I could use a Sonnet Express Pro chassis I suspect in the next year we'll start reading about people's experiences with these new PC's and Thunderbolt.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 10, 2017 10:26:42 GMT -6
*Just a few questions and ideas * Why not get a new base model 21.5" iMac and upgrade the things you need or maybe a refurb iMac or Mac Pro? This way you pay not to worry and know everything works... Do you really want PC and windows?
Idk I used Windows the other day for some shipping label stuff and it was awful. I guess using easy breezy beautiful Mac OS X for the past 5-6 years has Jaded me lol
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 10, 2017 10:59:41 GMT -6
Honestly, that's probably what I would do...Hopefully I can last another 1-2 years with this one and then I'll buy a used 2017...
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Post by swurveman on Jun 10, 2017 11:58:56 GMT -6
*Just a few questions and ideas * Why not get a new base model 21.5" iMac and upgrade the things you need or maybe a refurb iMac or Mac Pro? This way you pay not to worry and know everything works... Do you really want PC and windows? Idk I used Windows the other day for some shipping label stuff and it was awful. I guess using easy breezy beautiful Mac OS X for the past 5-6 years has Jaded me lol It always baffles me that people have trouble with Windows. The only time I have had trouble has been my Antares 7 plugin that was poorly coded when going from 32-64 bit. Everything else- iLok, Waves 32-64 bit implementation, UAD 32-64 bit implementation, Pro Tools and Cubase upgrades, RME driver updates and firmware updates, Lynx firmware update etc. etc. has worked flawlessly for me. As for hardware, I am a bit suspect of going with laptops and peripherals when I can build an all in one PC solution for way cheaper on an OS I trust.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 12:24:05 GMT -6
Idk I used Windows the other day for some shipping label stuff and it was awful. I guess using easy breezy beautiful Mac OS X for the past 5-6 years has Jaded me lol er, mac label software is better? I know mac users are like crack users and will talk each other out of giving up - but that's a tenuous reason to stay with mac. *dons hard hat and ducks*
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 10, 2017 12:25:26 GMT -6
Cool for you 🤘 Many don't want to build computers or want to have to source parts from various places. We want to make or mix music. Most don't want to deal with BIOS, OS, APPS, install etc
Also, no need to get baffled, way more important things in this world 😀. I'm glad you like windows and have no issues. I shared my experience using newest Windows the other day for normal non audio related tasks. People say it is sleek and not bloated and works comparable to OS X, I had a different experience. Even said it probably because I haven't used windows in awhile. Smh
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 10, 2017 12:26:47 GMT -6
Idk I used Windows the other day for some shipping label stuff and it was awful. I guess using easy breezy beautiful Mac OS X for the past 5-6 years has Jaded me lol er, mac label software is better? I know mac users are like crack users and will talk each other out of giving up - but that's a tenuous reason to stay with mac. *dons hard hat and ducks* SMH
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 12:36:00 GMT -6
* just read Bob's post below so deleted as he explains better
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 10, 2017 12:38:45 GMT -6
Thunderbolt cards plug into the motherboard and are manufacturer/model-specific as opposed to being PCIe.
My Pro Tools PC has an ASUS motherboard with a 2 port TB 2 card. Apple's TB to firewire adapter works better in it than any other firewire port I've encountered on mac or PC. I've heard the same about audio interfaces provided the manufacturer provides a driver. TB3 finally has full Microsoft support in the latest version of windows 10.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 10, 2017 16:32:41 GMT -6
Thunderbolt cards plug into the motherboard and are manufacturer/model-specific as opposed to being PCIe. My Pro Tools PC has an ASUS motherboard with a 2 port TB 2 card. Apple's TB to firewire adapter works better in it than any other firewire port I've encountered on mac or PC. I've heard the same about audio interfaces provided the manufacturer provides a driver. TB3 finally has full Microsoft support in the latest version of windows 10. We have a couple of Apple TB to FireWire adapter cables and have had no issues. They are used to connect FW audio interfaces to both our iMac and MacBook Pro.
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Post by mulmany on Jun 11, 2017 11:45:57 GMT -6
Anyone try running on one of the new Intel nuc's?
There is the skull canyon 6th gen i7 and the new 7th gen i7 NUC out. Both have Thunderbolt 3/USB C. Configure for 2 flash drives at 2100mbs.
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Post by Ward on Jun 11, 2017 12:08:46 GMT -6
It always baffles me that people have trouble with Windows. The only time I have had trouble has been my Antares 7 plugin that was poorly coded when going from 32-64 bit. Everything else- iLok, Waves 32-64 bit implementation, UAD 32-64 bit implementation, Pro Tools and Cubase upgrades, RME driver updates and firmware updates, Lynx firmware update etc. etc. has worked flawlessly for me. As for hardware, I am a bit suspect of going with laptops and peripherals when I can build an all in one PC solution for way cheaper on an OS I trust. Really? It always baffles me when I hear a person claim he doesn't have problems with Windows. They are nothing but trouble... but unfortunately, market share and higher production numbers, lead to lower prices which makes people fall for the false promise. I still think M$ are a perfidious bunch, to put it mildly. My childhood best friend held more patents at Microsoft than even Bill Gates did, but once leaving he switched everything to Apple. Not because he didn't like his work, he just didn't trust the backbone architecture of the great sloth.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 11, 2017 13:45:59 GMT -6
PCs are nothing but trouble for control freaks who tweak them. Macs don't allow screwing them up as easily. I've had fewer problems with my PCs than most of my friends have had with their macs.
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Post by M57 on Jun 11, 2017 14:43:53 GMT -6
PCs are nothing but trouble for control freaks who tweak them. Macs don't allow screwing them up as easily. I've had fewer problems with my PCs than most of my friends have had with their macs. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Are you saying PCs can be less trouble than Macs if you don't mess with them? Is that what you do?
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 11, 2017 15:15:54 GMT -6
I don't mess with it beyond just turning off the power saving crap.
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Post by rocinante on Jun 11, 2017 15:26:33 GMT -6
I have had a few problems with my pc but i only because i screwed with it. Otherwise its been awesome. 24 in and 24 out simultaneous while recording 10 in with 2-3 plug ins on 12-20 channels and not a hiccup. Several channels even have some kontakt instrument. Thats good. Its a12 core with 24 gigs of ram.
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Post by M57 on Jun 11, 2017 15:36:19 GMT -6
That's good to hear. I'm a Mac kind of guy these days, for just a few reasons, but mostly because I'm a Logic user. As far as I'm concerned more options means a more competitive market, which at least on the Mac end of things requires keeping up a quality standard. I've had just a few glitches with my Macs, but for the most part, I can't complain.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 11, 2017 15:45:40 GMT -6
It always baffles me that people have trouble with Windows. The only time I have had trouble has been my Antares 7 plugin that was poorly coded when going from 32-64 bit. Everything else- iLok, Waves 32-64 bit implementation, UAD 32-64 bit implementation, Pro Tools and Cubase upgrades, RME driver updates and firmware updates, Lynx firmware update etc. etc. has worked flawlessly for me. As for hardware, I am a bit suspect of going with laptops and peripherals when I can build an all in one PC solution for way cheaper on an OS I trust. Really? It always baffles me when I hear a person claim he doesn't have problems with Windows. They are nothing but trouble... but unfortunately, market share and higher production numbers, lead to lower prices which makes people fall for the false promise. I still think M$ are a perfidious bunch, to put it mildly. My childhood best friend held more patents at Microsoft than even Bill Gates did, but once leaving he switched everything to Apple. Not because he didn't like his work, he just didn't trust the backbone architecture of the great sloth. My experience and yours are different. It's obvious that there's no solution other than everybody to go with their preferences.
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Post by svart on Jul 5, 2017 11:38:44 GMT -6
It always baffles me that people have trouble with Windows. The only time I have had trouble has been my Antares 7 plugin that was poorly coded when going from 32-64 bit. Everything else- iLok, Waves 32-64 bit implementation, UAD 32-64 bit implementation, Pro Tools and Cubase upgrades, RME driver updates and firmware updates, Lynx firmware update etc. etc. has worked flawlessly for me. As for hardware, I am a bit suspect of going with laptops and peripherals when I can build an all in one PC solution for way cheaper on an OS I trust. Really? It always baffles me when I hear a person claim he doesn't have problems with Windows. They are nothing but trouble... but unfortunately, market share and higher production numbers, lead to lower prices which makes people fall for the false promise. I still think M$ are a perfidious bunch, to put it mildly. My childhood best friend held more patents at Microsoft than even Bill Gates did, but once leaving he switched everything to Apple. Not because he didn't like his work, he just didn't trust the backbone architecture of the great sloth. I never have trouble with windows. Baffle away! Srsly though, I never have trouble.
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Post by svart on Jul 5, 2017 11:51:49 GMT -6
PCs are nothing but trouble for control freaks who tweak them. Macs don't allow screwing them up as easily. I've had fewer problems with my PCs than most of my friends have had with their macs. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Are you saying PCs can be less trouble than Macs if you don't mess with them? Is that what you do? Step one is to never, ever, let your recording PC get on the internet. Turn off wifi and unplug the ethernet. Once it's running, don't change a thing. Sometimes (rarely these days) an update will hose you, sometimes a virus/trojan/worm. PCs are cheap enough to have a 200$ laptop to do all your surfing and leave your recording rig to do recording. Step two is to uninstall anything that does not have to do with recording. Windows is pretty good at managing memory usage, but 3rd party programs eat a lot of resources unnecessarily. removing these things frees up CPU and memory. Step three is never us cheap ram or power supplies. the extra cost is worth the payback in stability and longevity. You can get a 700W power supply for 40$, or you can get the one for 120$. The 120$ one will last a lot longer and be more stable. PC folks tend to buy cheap parts of inferior quality because it's cheap and readily available. Make sure you have a good quality power supply and most of the potential problems will never happen. Secondly, since PC folks tend to buy cheap upgrades, they get half-assed drivers and flaky hardware implementations. Buy good quality upgrades and most of the potential problems will never happen. Even with buying a good, solid, PC setup, you'll still save a LOT of money over Macs, and have many years of reliable performance. My last recording PC lasted about 12 years. During that time I replaced the power supply twice, and had no other issues. My new PC is about 4 years old now, and has only had one problem that was totally my fault for mixing RAM with different voltage requirements. once I figured that out, it's been rock solid, even through an SSD and CPU upgrade. (The unofficial step four would be to let absolutely NO ONE use your recording machine but you. I've known people to do things like letting their kids play on their recording computer, only to find it failing to boot and all their work gone in less than an hour..)
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Post by iamasound on Jul 5, 2017 13:59:02 GMT -6
For me that's been the thing...never go on the internet and just don't futz around with it and mess things up...and as others have mentioned, power supply, power supply, power supply.
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Post by popmann on Jul 5, 2017 16:44:45 GMT -6
Actually, the internet bit is....not wrong, but misleading as to the issue. You can go on the net all you want--you just run the machine without administrative rights. Apple won't LET you run with admin rights....Microsoft can't seem to get their UAC type thing to work in non annoying ways, so people turn it off.
Here's what you do....you build the PC and install all software with your account having administrative rights....you then created a second fresh admin account.....you log in with THAT account, and remove the original account's local administrative rights. You write down the password/login for that admin account and keep that somewhere. You will need it to install new software and potentially fix some file permissions.
FWIW.
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Post by Ward on Jul 5, 2017 21:09:45 GMT -6
Really? It always baffles me when I hear a person claim he doesn't have problems with Windows. They are nothing but trouble... but unfortunately, market share and higher production numbers, lead to lower prices which makes people fall for the false promise. I still think M$ are a perfidious bunch, to put it mildly. My childhood best friend held more patents at Microsoft than even Bill Gates did, but once leaving he switched everything to Apple. Not because he didn't like his work, he just didn't trust the backbone architecture of the great sloth. I never have trouble with windows. Baffle away! Srsly though, I never have trouble. Fair enough. I wish I had your luck with that danged troublesome meddlesome tiresome OS. I have a Mac and a PC sitting side by side on my desk at my morning marketing job. The PC is a constant source of aggravation.
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Post by svart on Jul 5, 2017 22:18:01 GMT -6
I never have trouble with windows. Baffle away! Srsly though, I never have trouble. Fair enough. I wish I had your luck with that danged troublesome meddlesome tiresome OS. I have a Mac and a PC sitting side by side on my desk at my morning marketing job. The PC is a constant source of aggravation. Thanks. I think we've all fallen where we are due to issues we've overcome. About 10 years ago I bought a Mac to run Profools on, to be "compatible" with sessions from other studios. It ran fine for a few weeks then developed the random "spinning wheel of death" that would sit there for seconds, then developed into minutes, then finally a few months later the thing would lock up doing much of anything. Sent in for repair.. Needed new motherboard. Got it back and it ran for a couple months. Started with the wheel again. I sent it in again, but now it was out of warranty and they wanted 300$ to replace the motherboard. I figured it would be worth it, and I was told that it was a "new" version that was "fixed".. My inquiries about why I was paying to replace a motherboard that they had just admitted had faults went without a response.. Such is Apple's business though.. So I got it back and it lasted about 6 months before the problem started to show back up. I ended up selling it for parts at that point. I never did make my initial purchase money back by using it for Protools sessions. In fact, I wasted enough money to buy 3 windows PCs.. But I digress. Since Mac and PCs are the same hardware these days, it really just boils down to what flavor of unix you want because Apple OS and modern Windows are both essentially unix-like kernels under the fancy GUI.
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