|
|
Post by joseph on May 23, 2017 15:31:38 GMT -6
Another factor is whether eq section is part of circuit or not / whether it's engaged.
Changes the sound a lot.
|
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on May 23, 2017 15:57:29 GMT -6
Hey BradM , Liam here. Hope you are well! (Went to the mailbox today and discovered our interview is still pending) Anyway, I have a few 1073 clones and less faithful Neve inspired boxes here (at my home base, not Studio C) so I went ahead and processed the loop. I did use the original stereo file on accident, but trimmed down -6dB, then output mono through one DAC channel, line level to the "Neve" and back to PT again. Unity was inexact on all my gear, so there's a minor amount of trimming the outputs happening in each case. I did not manipulate gain ITB aside from the initial pad on the untreated loop. On the 1073 clone, I made a pass both w/ EQ engaged and bypassed but they sounded the same to me so I just included the bypassed one. PS, I included extra passes just for kicks, labelled accordingly: www.dropbox.com/sh/iryc9rhctp2x2w5/AADv_qXCeg5e784dKxSH2tvga?dl=0 |
|
|
|
Post by BradM on May 23, 2017 17:27:49 GMT -6
Hey BradM , Liam here. Hope you are well! (Went to the mailbox today and discovered our interview is still pending) Anyway, I have a few 1073 clones and less faithful Neve inspired boxes here (at my home base, not Studio C) so I went ahead and processed the loop. I did use the original stereo file on accident, but trimmed down -6dB, then output mono through one DAC channel, line level to the "Neve" and back to PT again. Unity was inexact on all my gear, so there's a minor amount of trimming the outputs happening in each case. I did not manipulate gain ITB aside from the initial pad on the untreated loop. On the 1073 clone, I made a pass both w/ EQ engaged and bypassed but they sounded the same to me so I just included the bypassed one. PS, I included extra passes just for kicks, labelled accordingly: www.dropbox.com/sh/iryc9rhctp2x2w5/AADv_qXCeg5e784dKxSH2tvga?dl=0Hey Liam! Nice to see you here. I'm living the dream these days.  Sweating my ass of in my garage and building gear. Ha. Awesome--thanks for processing these clips. What you did sounds perfect. That's basically how I generated the mono clip anyway. Which clones did you run through? I see a clip labeled "Clone" and "Unclone". Can you give some more details? joseph - good point. I think bypassing the EQ will keep the number of variables down. But you are right. thanks! Brad |
|
|
|
Post by c0rtland on May 23, 2017 21:50:11 GMT -6
Wait, so you do have a filter? (Sorry, couldn't resist). Completely went over my head. Btw I'm stoked to here these valid unscientific comparisons so I can form my own valid unscientific opinion.  |
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on May 23, 2017 22:00:38 GMT -6
Wait, so you do have a filter? (Sorry, couldn't resist). Completely went over my head. Btw I'm stoked to here these valid unscientific comparisons so I can form my own valid unscientific opinion. Looking forward to hearing more of them! |
|
|
|
Post by NoFilterChuck on May 23, 2017 22:25:15 GMT -6
Wait, so you do have a filter? (Sorry, couldn't resist). Completely went over my head. Btw I'm stoked to here these valid unscientific comparisons so I can form my own valid unscientific opinion. The ez1073-500 is the Neve1073 including the EQ, or "filter". my username is "noFilterChuck". notneeson was implying that because I have an ez1073-500 which has a filter EQ, that I do in fact have a filter, contrary to what my username implies. |
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on May 23, 2017 22:58:53 GMT -6
I got hung up on recalls tonight and am out of energy. I tap out at 16 hours haha. I'll send it through a few different ones tomorrow. I thought they were 1081's but pulled a module tonight and at least 4 of them are 1083's They interestingly have a "hi/lo" switch on the back. I'm guessing impedance. Nice! Are these in a console? Two things... I'm guessing the 1083's will be Class A/B like the 1081's versus the 1073's and 1084's which are Class A so these will sound different. Typically the Neve Class A/B modules have more presence 'off the bat' than the Class A modules. Are the gain pots on your 1083's detented? I believe that's the only difference from the 1081. The 'Hi/Lo' switch sets the mic input transformer to either 1200 ohms or 300 ohms and has no effect on the line input which uses a different transformer. Not in a console - we have an SSL9k. The neve channel strips are all racked up as outboard. We have 10 channels of 10-- modules. 4 of them are 1083's, I believe 2 are 1081's, im gonna have to pull the other 4 to see exactly what they are. Same frequency points as the 1083, but they have a switch to change from mic to line, and concentric pots for level, where the 1083's and 1081's are just on the normal red gain switch that changes mic/line the further you turn it. |
|
|
|
Post by c0rtland on May 23, 2017 23:43:51 GMT -6
Completely went over my head. Btw I'm stoked to here these valid unscientific comparisons so I can form my own valid unscientific opinion. The ez1073-500 is the Neve1073 including the EQ, or "filter". my username is "noFilterChuck". notneeson was implying that because I have an ez1073-500 which has a filter EQ, that I do in fact have a filter, contrary to what my username implies. Lol That's the missing piece. Oh,haha, and I fancy myself observant. |
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on May 24, 2017 7:16:02 GMT -6
The ez1073-500 is the Neve1073 including the EQ, or "filter". my username is "noFilterChuck". notneeson was implying that because I have an ez1073-500 which has a filter EQ, that I do in fact have a filter, contrary to what my username implies. Lol That's the missing piece. Oh,haha, and I fancy myself observant. Don't you have 7 different Neve pre/Eq's from 1057's - 1093's to help Brad out 🤠 |
|
|
|
Post by BradM on May 24, 2017 8:54:14 GMT -6
Is someone with a stash of Neve holding out on me? Brad |
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on May 24, 2017 9:09:33 GMT -6
Don't forget a 600 ohm termination on the output transformer of the preamps should be added as I assume we're going back into an AD with at least a 10kohm input impedance.
Speaking of which, what about variations in AD/DA?
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on May 24, 2017 9:20:17 GMT -6
rowboat said, "what about variations in AD/DA?"
Good point, but it's not a scientific test, just a do your best so we can get a general idea of what they sound like thing. I think.
|
|
|
|
Post by BradM on May 24, 2017 10:19:07 GMT -6
Don't forget a 600 ohm termination on the output transformer of the preamps should be added as I assume we're going back into an AD with at least a 10kohm input impedance. Speaking of which, what about variations in AD/DA? Yeah, variations in AD/DA will exist. But so will variations in cabling, and power supplies. The overall vibe is what we care about. A 600 termination will technically make the output amplifier circuits work harder. That will just load the output transformer more. What load did 1073 modules see in a 80-series vintage console? But yes, the preamp will potentially have a different sound if terminated with 600 ohms. It will be probably be darker and dirtier. I say leave your preamps terminated however they come. If someone racked them already then they've been used for years feeding A/D converters most likely. By the way...the new RND 511 rings like a mofo at like 80 kHz. Martin John Butler - You have it correct. Let's just listen to some preamps. Real life. No white lab coats. Brad |
|
|
|
Post by drbill on May 24, 2017 10:30:32 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by c0rtland on May 24, 2017 11:09:27 GMT -6
Is someone with a stash of Neve holding out on me? Brad Wishful fantasies of grandeur. I'd splurge on a rack of Burl before I winked at some vintage neve. |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on May 24, 2017 11:15:05 GMT -6
A studio tech over at GroupDIY uncovered an entire decommissioned Neve in storage that the owner had forgotten about. It does happen!
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098 
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on May 24, 2017 12:08:25 GMT -6
A studio tech over at GroupDIY uncovered an entire decommissioned Neve in storage that the owner had forgotten about. It does happen! Just like the world of classic cars less and less in the age of the Internet! |
|
|
|
Post by c0rtland on May 24, 2017 12:18:51 GMT -6
A studio tech over at GroupDIY uncovered an entire decommissioned Neve in storage that the owner had forgotten about. It does happen! Just like the world of classic cars less and less in the age of the Internet! I'll start holding my breath when my flying pygmy unicorn that sh*ts ac701k's returns from her in-law's castle on the dark side of the moon. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on May 24, 2017 12:35:16 GMT -6
Just like the world of classic cars less and less in the age of the Internet! I'll start holding my breath when my flying pygmy unicorn that sh*ts ac701k's returns from her in-law's castle on the dark side of the moon. I'll chase that unicorn or its VF14 shitting brethren! |
|
|
|
Post by codyprang on Mar 15, 2024 19:28:31 GMT -6
OK - cool. Wasn't trying to be disagreeable...just asking. I didn't take it that way at all. I thought they were genuinely legitimate questions. I'm glad someone is asking them! I do think the question about stereo vs. mono is especially relevant. Some gear does present stereo information in a special way that would never be revealed with a mono track. I know from experience the Silver Bullet (on "A") is like that. So I appreciate you bringing that up. Sometimes it's fun to just see where the sounds will lead us. Brad Hey Brad, Sorry to hijack the thread, but I’m curious what you meant by the Silver Bullet A setting processing stereo information in a special way. I have an mk1 and noticed that when switching to “A” it feels like the mix gets slightly wider and more upper mid forward. I have been using N -> A for this reason and I’m loving it. Just curious if you were able to share if what I’m hearing is related to your earlier comment. Thanks! |
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Mar 15, 2024 20:30:23 GMT -6
I didn't take it that way at all. I thought they were genuinely legitimate questions. I'm glad someone is asking them! I do think the question about stereo vs. mono is especially relevant. Some gear does present stereo information in a special way that would never be revealed with a mono track. I know from experience the Silver Bullet (on "A") is like that. So I appreciate you bringing that up. Sometimes it's fun to just see where the sounds will lead us. Brad Hey Brad, Sorry to hijack the thread, but I’m curious what you meant by the Silver Bullet A setting processing stereo information in a special way. I have an mk1 and noticed that when switching to “A” it feels like the mix gets slightly wider and more upper mid forward. I have been using N -> A for this reason and I’m loving it. Just curious if you were able to share if what I’m hearing is related to your earlier comment. Thanks! What you mentioned is exactly what Brad and I hear in the A SBmk1/2 circuitry. A absolutely changes the "dimensionality" of a stereo signal with the components we ended up with. A lot of that (most of it?) is in the transformer we ended up with. |
|
|
|
Post by ab101 on Mar 15, 2024 22:34:56 GMT -6
I have got to try B into A more on my SBII.
Thanks for writing about this.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on Mar 16, 2024 16:01:50 GMT -6
Again - not trying to be a wet noodle, but will this really tell us much? What was the original file recorded with? I'm actually asking because I'm not sure of the answer. Is this a test to reflect how the chroma and various pres sound when re-routing a file through it? On a mono track, I would think it would be pretty tough to tell the difference. Maybe a 2 bus track might yield more noticeable results? Hi John, I think it will tell us what it tells us. When we plug in microphones and audition preamps on mono sources, how are we able to make decisions about what preamps to use? Folks do this all the time and claim to hear differences, so I think a mono track is valid. I'm not sure it really matters what the original track was recorded with. It's a well recorded sound in my opinion. And if you put that sound through additional circuitry it will change in ways that our ears may notice. Maybe listening and discussing these clips may help us all better understand what the "Neve" sound is. I don't think this is a test per se. It's more just to hear what different Neve gear sounds like to satisfy curiosity. My hunch is that my own new product, Chroma, will sound very close to some of it, and if it does indeed I'd be pretty stoked I made something that hangs with such high end company. For some of us these clips may not tell us anything. For others it may tell us everything. If anyone wants to run the stereo clip as well (for fun), here's a link. I'd pull down the level 6 dB before printing though. And again, use the line inputs, with gain set to unity: Stereo Drum Clip (trim -6dB before printing)
Brad Hey Brad it’s been a while! One big thing to remember when you’re comparing results a lot of the Clones don’t have input transformers on the line input, so to really understand what your hearing your going to have to do some homework. To get a Neve tone out of the line input on a lot of clones it’s pad the signal and use the mic input, granted this isn’t unity gain. |
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Mar 16, 2024 16:19:09 GMT -6
Hi John, I think it will tell us what it tells us. When we plug in microphones and audition preamps on mono sources, how are we able to make decisions about what preamps to use? Folks do this all the time and claim to hear differences, so I think a mono track is valid. I'm not sure it really matters what the original track was recorded with. It's a well recorded sound in my opinion. And if you put that sound through additional circuitry it will change in ways that our ears may notice. Maybe listening and discussing these clips may help us all better understand what the "Neve" sound is. I don't think this is a test per se. It's more just to hear what different Neve gear sounds like to satisfy curiosity. My hunch is that my own new product, Chroma, will sound very close to some of it, and if it does indeed I'd be pretty stoked I made something that hangs with such high end company. For some of us these clips may not tell us anything. For others it may tell us everything. If anyone wants to run the stereo clip as well (for fun), here's a link. I'd pull down the level 6 dB before printing though. And again, use the line inputs, with gain set to unity: Stereo Drum Clip (trim -6dB before printing)
Brad Hey Brad it’s been a while! One big thing to remember when you’re comparing results a lot of the Clones don’t have input transformers on the line input, so to really understand what your hearing your going to have to do some homework. To get a Neve tone out of the line input on a lot of clones it’s pad the signal and use the mic input, granted this isn’t unity gain. Totally. I actually did this test for Brad way back when, and for my money, my humble 1073 clones that do include line input transformers brought more to the table than the Phoenix DRS2, which has no input transformers at all. (Not that it isn't a nice mic pre). |
|
|
|
Post by codyprang on Mar 17, 2024 7:38:18 GMT -6
I have got to try B into A more on my SBII. Thanks for writing about this. Give it a try! I’ve been using the N side set to a level that I like and then I run that into A at lowest gain and highest output and it’s like adding a very subtle stereo widener. |
|
Sweating my ass of in my garage and building gear. Ha.
