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Post by Johnkenn on May 17, 2017 22:09:12 GMT -6
There's a shootout between the BT-50, API Vintage 550 and 550A and new API 550 here on the forum...You should listen and be the judge for yourself. My experiences with them were much different than Drbill's. My experience with the SHOOTOUT audio files was very positive. In studio, hands on, not so much. But I'm going to try Red Dots first, and then hopefully 1731's to try and change what I'm hearing. Not being snarky at all - but who built them? Could that be an issue?
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Post by drbill on May 17, 2017 22:13:35 GMT -6
No. I don't think so. They both have 100% out of the box parts, work as they should, and seem solidly built. They just don't "sound" quite like the API's I'm used to, and as mentioned, the clips DO sound like the API's. I might be being too picky, but everyone else seems to really love em, and it seems like most everyone else is using different opamps, so.....that's what I will investigate next.
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Post by Bender on May 18, 2017 0:01:59 GMT -6
My experience with the SHOOTOUT audio files was very positive. In studio, hands on, not so much. But I'm going to try Red Dots first, and then hopefully 1731's to try and change what I'm hearing. Not being snarky at all - but who built them? Could that be an issue? Bender built them baby, (well the LC25 & 40 at least) and they're flawless!not sure about your bt50 bill, but I for one have all three and these days I'm pretty much using 1731's in everything. Just my fave overall.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,936
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Post by ericn on May 18, 2017 6:40:40 GMT -6
No. I don't think so. They both have 100% out of the box parts, work as they should, and seem solidly built. They just don't "sound" quite like the API's I'm used to, and as mentioned, the clips DO sound like the API's. I might be being too picky, but everyone else seems to really love em, and it seems like most everyone else is using different opamps, so.....that's what I will investigate next. If Bill's chasing the sound of the A-1 he's not going to quite find it with the BT50. Most shun the Hybrid rather than totally discreet A-1, but not Our DR Bill, of course the A-1 is a great EQ, it's just not a 550A !
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Post by indiehouse on May 18, 2017 7:59:59 GMT -6
Bill's BT50 are solid builds. Meticulous and clean with no part substitutions. Oh, and litz wire transformers, too.
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Post by roundbadge on May 18, 2017 9:03:21 GMT -6
I've got 25's,40's and now 4 50's in my console alongside 70's 550's and later 550a's and a couple later handwired reissues. They're just slightly different,all killer. The 50's are litz,red dots. Perfect match to my 70's 550's and 550a's .so close I sold all the newer reissue (pcb)550a's because by comparison they literally sound pokey and anemic..(JUST like that stock 1608 console.go figure!) The 25's and 40's sound smoother more euphonic less aggressive than 550's.those Anderson input tx's are the ticket,they add a focus and cream. Friggin Amazing on vocals and guitars. The 50's (like the vintage) sound huge and open punchy as hell.all the biz w/drums and bass.
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Post by drbill on May 18, 2017 9:19:37 GMT -6
No. I don't think so. They both have 100% out of the box parts, work as they should, and seem solidly built. They just don't "sound" quite like the API's I'm used to, and as mentioned, the clips DO sound like the API's. I might be being too picky, but everyone else seems to really love em, and it seems like most everyone else is using different opamps, so.....that's what I will investigate next. If Bill's chasing the sound of the A-1 he's not going to quite find it with the BT50. Most shun the Hybrid rather than totally discreet A-1, but not Our DR Bill, of course the A-1 is a great EQ, it's just not a 550A ! If it was good enough for Leon Russell, it's good enough for me. LOL The A-1's I mean. BTW, that's not what I"m chasing, those are just my PERSONAL API-style EQ choices in present studio. I also have LiLPEQr's, Chop Shops, the EQ's in my D&R Visions, Missing Links (Which I should put in the API camp I suppose), Silver Bullets, and a few other misc things.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 18, 2017 10:58:23 GMT -6
Bill's BT50 are solid builds. Meticulous and clean with no part substitutions. Oh, and litz wire transformers, too. Did you build them? Wat do you charge?
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Post by indiehouse on May 18, 2017 11:19:15 GMT -6
Bill's BT50 are solid builds. Meticulous and clean with no part substitutions. Oh, and litz wire transformers, too. Did you build them? Wat do you charge? $4,449 or one Chandler Redd Mic. It's a great deal. The best deal.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 18, 2017 14:37:27 GMT -6
Did you build them? Wat do you charge? $4,449 or one Chandler Redd Mic. It's a great deal. The best deal. Think I will pay Billy Pratt and get 9 built modules instead 😀👍 How do you know what dr Bill modules are, and if they're built meticulously? Everyone seems to want Chandler gear round here, it must be cream of the crop 🏋️ Edit* found your Reverb site... you really did go in depth regarding these builds ... I didn't know you build gear ... take care ...
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Post by robschnapf on May 20, 2017 11:30:00 GMT -6
And to state the obvious, 550's are different then 550A's. Sonically I ve always been drawn to 550's.
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Post by drbill on May 20, 2017 11:32:31 GMT -6
And 550's are different then 550A's. Sonically I ve always been drawn to 550's. Hey Rob!! Do you have the BT50's? If yes, what opamps are you using? I tried red dots. Better in a lot of ways - especially the HF - but still......
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Post by robschnapf on May 20, 2017 11:36:02 GMT -6
No haven't tried em yet. I would suspect that they would be the opposite end of the A-1.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 20, 2017 13:12:44 GMT -6
And to state the obvious, 550's are different then 550A's. Sonically I ve always been drawn to 550's. Yeah, they are the bomb on bottom. I thought the BT-50 was kind've sonically in the middle of the 550 and 550A's...
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Post by drbill on May 20, 2017 13:16:12 GMT -6
No haven't tried em yet. I would suspect that they would be the opposite end of the A-1. Yeah, starting to feel that way myself.
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Post by robschnapf on May 20, 2017 20:10:07 GMT -6
550's have that nice gauzy fuzzyish bottom
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Post by drbill on May 20, 2017 20:55:39 GMT -6
550's have that nice gauzy fuzzyish bottom Sigh....I know. LOL I'm going to try some GAR 1731's now and see if it gets me closer to what my ears want to hear. (Whatever that is.... )
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Post by drbill on May 20, 2017 21:57:50 GMT -6
OK. Tried the 1731's.
Also tried : Gar2520's, Red Dots, Rogue5's, Rogue 2's (prototypes).
Of all the suspects, the 1731's worked the best. But they were also the most strange to me. Certain freq.'s killed. The bottom was great. Big and Phat.
But certain mid-freq's sounded almost like the op amp is not flat in it's freq response. Comparing GAR 2520 to GAR 1731 on the SOME (not all) of the same freq.'s with the same boosts was like listening to two completely different EQ's with freq selection on different bands of each EQ. It's almost like one freq has a nice sound when boosted, click up another freq and there's like a hole there. I don't know how to describe it. ALL of the other opamps were smoother in terms of balance across the Freq range. They did pretty much what I expected, with whatever their sonic footprint was. I'm just not sure about an EQ that's killer on some freq.'s and not so great on others. Totally weird. The red dot didn't do it, the 2520's didn't do it. The Rogues didn't do it. The 1731's do it. Strange.
Anyone ever run a sweep through with the EQ "IN" but no bands boosted or cut?
I'm super tired now. Maybe my ears are blown out. A lot of critical listening today, and that wears me out.... I really don't want to TRY so hard to like something.....
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Post by robschnapf on May 20, 2017 22:54:11 GMT -6
Well maybe you like the A-1's better and the 550 circuit doesn't quite do it for you. Nothing wrong with that. For years I thought I was crazy that 550's and A's sounded different. I'm just happy there's a reason.
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Post by robschnapf on May 21, 2017 6:22:09 GMT -6
Also bill, my old 550 s either have the original huntingtons or when they've popped, replaced with red dots.
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Post by drbill on May 21, 2017 9:46:09 GMT -6
Thanks Rob. My next test is to use these in an actual "mix" instead of testing them solo.
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Post by gar381 on May 21, 2017 15:03:32 GMT -6
For the what ever it’s worth dept……
I don’t as of yet own any of Jeff newer EQ offerings but I do own 8 LC53s, 2 553fs and a pair of Dataronics 553s. All of these EQs are of the Swinging LCR topology. In Jeff’s newer offerings the topology is different so this may or may not be relevant here.
In all my listing tests, I have found that my gar1731s in all positions sound the best to my 67 year old ears compared to my other “gar” offerings. I have not listened/compared these to Scott’s excellent Opamps. so I cannot comment on them at this point.
In straight Sine Freq. sweep tests using my old HP generator and looking at the waveform on my old tek scope (not the most Modern of test gear), all my “gars” appear to be ruler flat from below 20Hz to above 20kHz with the EQs “In” And all the Boost/Cut knobs set flat. Straight sweep tests will not necessarily show the differences we all hear in different Opamps.
Gary
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Post by drbill on May 21, 2017 15:36:56 GMT -6
Thanks for your input Gary. Not sure what I'm "hearing", but one thing is certain - your 2520's and 1731's sound quite different. That much I know. LOL I appreciate you weighing in. To really judge them fairly, I've got to use these in mixes and not just random A/B solo'd experiments. It may just be that I don't get on as well with the BT's as I do with Jeff's LC's or API's offerings. Obviously, I'm not listening to the EQ with "boost/cuts set "flat", so there ya go. At any rate, I'm a couple of weeks out from any mixing projects, so they will get a workout when I get there - one that's 1731 equipped vs. one that's 2520 equipped. We'll see which I like better. Cheers, Bill
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Post by rowmat on May 21, 2017 17:29:20 GMT -6
Thanks for your input Gary. Not sure what I'm "hearing", but one thing is certain - your 2520's and 1731's sound quite different. That much I know. LOL I appreciate you weighing in. To really judge them fairly, I've got to use these in mixes and not just random A/B solo'd experiments. It may just be that I don't get on as well with the BT's as I do with Jeff's LC's or API's offerings. Obviously, I'm not listening to the EQ with "boost/cuts set "flat", so there ya go. At any rate, I'm a couple of weeks out from any mixing projects, so they will get a workout when I get there - one that's 1731 equipped vs. one that's 2520 equipped. We'll see which I like better. Cheers, Bill What about some Gar918's? realgearonline.com/thread/4760/gar918-opamp-kits-available-store
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Post by drbill on May 21, 2017 17:43:16 GMT -6
When is enough enough??? I've tried 5 different types of DOA's - including all the usual suspects. I'm going to give the popular favorite another shot on my upcoming mixes. There is always that possibility that the EQ's just don't fit. It's not such a horrible thing.
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