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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 7, 2014 23:07:31 GMT -6
Sometimes I hate you guys... not only am I trying to find the available funds and justify the expenditure of a STA-Level, now I am trying to also find and justify a 176. thanks.  Ha! Happy New Year Ward!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 0:02:57 GMT -6
I too unashamedly love lots of compression for tone shaping and creating cohesiveness.
Compression and Tubes are the aphrodisiacs of audio engineering.
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Post by noah shain on Jan 8, 2014 0:29:11 GMT -6
I think it's a really interesting part of the aesthetic. On the one hand, something like Radiohead is really compressed in a lot of ways, making the overall sound very fat and dense and detailed, or something like that, has a lot to do with Nigel Godrich and his rack gear. On the other hand, a lot of Aphex Twin is more like, orchestral sounding, with very natural transients and sustain, breathy, plucky. Not as much this wall of sound, but more "breathing" in a different way, lighter, ticklier. And then you've got pop like Major Lazer with the completely flattened vocals and everything else, smashed master, etc, sounding monstrous in this other way, like slamming, somehow. Probably some fierce transient shaping or something. It seems like certain rock genres almost use compression as a musical instrument, to get that really specific Chris Lord Alge-style drum smack or whatever. It can get really stylized and genre-specific or even era-specific. I wish every album came with an engineer's cheat sheet so I could really understand and copy other people's methods really specifically, regarding stuff like EQ and compression. There's just so many ways to do it. I really like all the extremes. I don't think there's a right or wrong preference with dynamics. I guess personally I'm more "as needed" about compression, but I tend to like master buss limiting very often. I'd like to get back into the all-over-as-flavors method described in this thread, but that is probably going to have to mean building a bunch of expensive DIY hardware compressors, which is going to take some time. I was doing it for a while with cheaper stuff like FMR and ART but I sold most of it. That was a good sound, though. I have chased after and chased after and chased after the sound of records I like...the thing that always takes the longest to capture but pays off the most, in MY journey of course, is the compression technique. Imitating EQ settings is like creating more linear analogies...not saying its easy but it's more "simple" to me. Fewer layers or something. Capturing the fundemental compression techniques of great mixes is CHALLENGING. Especially when you get in to buss (meaning sub-group) compression and frequency specific buss compression (ala Brauerize) and parallel compression and multiple mults and saturation as a form of compression...SHEESH! I feel like compression has been the bulk of the journey for me and the best mixes I've ever done, the ones that make me feel like I know what I'm doing (hahahah!!) have layers upon layers of compression and multi-buss processing, mults, frequency specific bussing, saturation busses AND 2 buss compression. Granted I'm working on STYLIZED recordings most of the time, not accurate representations of performers in real world environments. Compressors are MY main tool for shaping sounds. Hardware and plugs. More than EQ for me. Maybe I use more EQs in a mix if you count hp and lp filters but not always. Sometimes it's more compressors. I am a monster... |
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Post by noah shain on Jan 8, 2014 0:37:43 GMT -6
I just have to add this...even though I compress a lot or use a lot of compression or a lot of compressors or whatever, I am still striving for dynamic mixes and contrast and "aliveness" most of the time. I'm never just slamming everything, setting faders and printing. I'm workin toward the same dynamic, emotional end result we all strive for. It's a mix of compression, EQ, automation, ambience, time based effects...all of it working together to create something fantastic. That's the drive anyway...
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Post by svart on Jan 8, 2014 7:51:04 GMT -6
Now, the compression hurdle I'm currently facing is listening and figuring out if the compression is pre or post EQ. They give fairly clearly different sounds but it's not always easy to tell on a recording.
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Post by Ward on Jan 8, 2014 9:52:34 GMT -6
Sometimes I hate you guys... not only am I trying to find the available funds and justify the expenditure of a STA-Level, now I am trying to also find and justify a 176. thanks. Ha! Happy New Year Ward!! Yeah... and at this rate it'll be "Happy New Chapter 11" |
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Post by Ward on Jan 8, 2014 9:54:47 GMT -6
Now, the compression hurdle I'm currently facing is listening and figuring out if the compression is pre or post EQ. They give fairly clearly different sounds but it's not always easy to tell on a recording. Sometimes you have to do both. EQ before compression in case anything (like bass) is pumping too hard and causing nasty compression side effects. Then EQ after compression to tone shape and make-up anything lost in the compression process. More times than not, for me, EQ follows mild compression then things hit busses with compressors and then the master buss with at least an SSL master comp and a Waves L1+Ultra-Limiter. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 8, 2014 10:38:24 GMT -6
Why do you assume everyone has a "smash everything" phase? And are you assuming that I'm smashing everything? ;-) He's of the mindset that compression is wrong/amateur and that he's enlightened, and that we'll possibly live up to his expectations some day when we learn what is right. To that, I say, then he isn't using ENOUGH compression . Popman's got some good points, but he should strap a la3a across his posts, smooth out annoying transients and bring down the condescending peaks just a few db 8) Overall I agree with his approach, and the preserving of dynamic range, it's a huge part of the musical experience, that's been smashed into oblivion by most IMO |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 8, 2014 12:45:36 GMT -6
We love you, popmann...  He's our resident snob-in-chief |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 8, 2014 12:51:49 GMT -6
We don't need a snob in chief, that's why I came here, to visit with friends who know how to make any point and remain inoffensive. Popmann's post have helped me see some interesting ways to approach things I don't know enough about, but I do agree with tony on this point. My skin's not thin, but poke hard enough and you can get through it.
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 8, 2014 13:56:49 GMT -6
I'm honestly not sure how people get so offended by Popmann. This is the internet: people will photoshop your head onto every victim of a car crash for the lolz. If you can't take criticism or even read an argument without getting sucked in by tone - Lawd has mercy!
"realgearonline.com: Big Boards for Big Boys (and girls)."
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 8, 2014 14:51:45 GMT -6
Popman's the ass that everybody loves to scratch. A very welcome member to our tight knit community. In all seriousness, he usually always comes through with good advise, once you wade through the gear poetic part.  |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 8, 2014 14:55:36 GMT -6
I put the 8) at the end, because I thought my compressing the soapbox analogy was kinda funny, pop knows some good stuff, but like MJ said, it's nice around here without the egos.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 8, 2014 19:20:54 GMT -6
My friend was engineering a now classic album decades ago, the band was getting nowhere, so my friend suggested they take a break, so they caught an old Marx Bros. movie, where Groucho responds to a statement to "walk this way", by walking that way, hunched over, with his cigar held up high. Thus, the singer was inspired, and one great song was born. Later in that session, my friend felt the intro bass part to one of the songs was lacking something, so he suggested doubling that part with a .. get this... bass marimba, which he ordered from a rental shop and then played on the track we now know as Sweet Emotion. Last year he was up for another Grammy, and guess what, he has zero attitude, just chops, talent, and the class to help his fellow musician/engineers out in a pinch.
So, when I see one too many arrogant, egotistical, know-it-all posts, I'm sorry, I just gotta call bullshit on them, because I know what the real deal sounds and acts like. End of story and rant. (Sorry bout that jazznoise).
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Post by popmann on Jan 8, 2014 19:28:01 GMT -6
I think I missed a turn somewhere in this thread.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 8, 2014 19:31:28 GMT -6
you're the unwitting star of a weird show! congratulations
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Post by Ward on Jan 8, 2014 19:55:28 GMT -6
ANd if his title gets any longer, that picture is going to have to go!
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Post by Guitar on Jan 8, 2014 20:03:32 GMT -6
aw man I love that picture, it makes me laugh
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 8, 2014 20:19:49 GMT -6
My friend was engineering a now classic album decades ago, the band was getting nowhere, so they took a break and caught an old Marx Bros. movie, where Groucho responds to a statement to "walk this way", by walking that way, hunched over, with his cigar held up high. Thus, the singer was inspired, and one great song was born. Later in that session, my friend felt the intro bass part to one of the songs was lacking something, so he suggested doubling that part with a .. get this... bass marimba, which he ordered from a rental shop and then played on the track we now know as Sweet Emotion. Last year he was up for another Grammy, and guess what, he has zero attitude, just chops, talent, and the class to help his fellow musician/engineers out in a pinch. So, when I see one too many arrogant, egotistical, know-it-all posts, I'm sorry, I just gotta call bullshit on them, because I know what the real deal sounds and acts like. End of story and rant. (Sorry bout that jazznoise). And would that guy be flustered by forum posts so easily? Not to be snarky, but you should examine both sides. You allow people to bother you, that's a thing you do in your head. No need to apologize to me, I'm quite fond of everyone here. In a healthy internet way, of course, no shrines..yet... |
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Post by Ward on Jan 8, 2014 22:46:35 GMT -6
Don't you type in that tone of voice, young man!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 8, 2014 22:50:16 GMT -6
Yes sir !
I was trying to be a bit funny when I wrote "sorry" to you jazznoise, I guess that didn't work very well.. My point was I am not easily flustered, so.. if I'm making a comment regarding internet etiquette, you can bet there are reasons. I said sorry to you, meaning, I'm sorry it bothers you that I speak up on occasion regarding comments bordering on being inappropriate, so maybe you might want to look at that yourself. When someone says "not to be", it means they're about to be.
OK, back to compression, would you guys say the consensus on a Sta-Level is that it's mainly for vocals and the 2 bus, and that 1176's are most often used for guitars and drums? I really have little experience with compressors, outside of the the little DBX 166X I used to have in my home studio in the late 80's and the plug ins I use now, mainly the UAD LA2, Fatso, the compressor on the Waves SSL EQ, and Slate's VBC.
I'm planning on getting the Warm Audio 1176 D clone when it arrives, so I'll try to learn as much as I can about it before it becomes available.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 8, 2014 23:41:54 GMT -6
I think MJB handles himself nicely here.
coming off as an absolutest on a forum that is based on a purely subjective art form, is a bad idea for any of us IMO
It's amazing how well the use of acronyms like...IMO, ime, IMHO, ymmv, hope this helps.....etc, work when writing a post.
I also have noticed guys who r the "real deal" are much more than often, humble and unassuming in there posting.
Jmo 8)
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Post by Guitar on Jan 9, 2014 0:14:43 GMT -6
I would just say that modeled plugs are a good way to get an idea of what the hardware is like, "ooh I like that" maybe I should go after the hardware. Heck I think even the Sta Level got modeled sometime not too far ago, but I don't recall by whom. Of course that doesn't help with less mainstream boxes..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 9, 2014 0:41:44 GMT -6
Good point monkeyxx. I love the LA2, and don't even think about not using it on a vocal track. I usually print with just a pinch, and if I need more as the tracks grow, I'll add some more later. I've often found myself reminded of a Fender bandmaster's tone controls when using the 1176, which is not a good thing, unless you want to sound like a fender Bandmaster. UAD's 1176 AE is another thing though, much smoother and more useful, at least for my kind of tracks.
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 9, 2014 4:40:12 GMT -6
Don't you type in that tone of voice, young man!  Back to our scheduled programe.. |
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