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Post by scumbum on Dec 20, 2013 17:27:54 GMT -6
You know how you say "Neve" and the model that defines them is the 1073 . And everyone will agree , the 1073 represents the Neve sound .
What mic pre defines the API sound , the 312 ??
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 20, 2013 18:49:32 GMT -6
The CapiVP28...
But yes, I would say the 312. What say you Jeff Steiger?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2013 10:51:03 GMT -6
312 would be my assumption. Seems that it's gonna through some changes and that the capi builds are the best way to get them without buying vintage.
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Post by popmann on Dec 22, 2013 13:17:16 GMT -6
There really aren't any others, are there? There were some consoles with the 212...but, I mean...I think it comes down to vintage. The modern 312 and 512 are effectively the same preamp...and the vintage 312s sound very different. Not inherently better...different. My own personal opinion is that the old ones were better "general purpose" preamps as they were better balanced...and the modern ones are a kind of caricature of "the API sound"--so anything you really want that tight bottom snappy upper mid thing, the new ones will deliver "more"...the old ones are much more "jack of all trades" (thus I would understand people saying better who are using them for everything) and DO need to be driven harder to get "that sound"--thus the implementation of attenuators and second gain stages.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 22, 2013 13:53:00 GMT -6
Yeah not much to choose from really. Back then, it must have been assumed 312 means "API" along with the rest of the console. I am a little unclear on what was actually in all of the API consoles preamp wise since the VP26 exists as a recreation, and is not quite a 312. But I thought the 312 came from consoles as well?
I bet now, more people think 512 and 3124+ being "the sound," but I'll bet the huge popularity of Jeff's modules is changing that.
On the component level, the 312 used now vintage transformers, no coupling cap between the op amp and OT, and a vintage style 2520 (Huntington, Mellvile, etc). That is, all of the major components are different from the modern 512.
The 512/3124 uses Cinemag/Jensen input transformers which sound different, a large electrolytic coupling cap after the op amp to prevent DC offset from magnetizing the output transformer when the new DI feature is used (love the API DI!), and apparently, a budget, mass produced possibly Chinese output transformer. As well, the modern API 2520 sounds quite a bit different from the old ones and is less versatile like PopMann said, more exaggerated in tonality. Putting say a GAR2520 in a modern API really smooths it out.
I don't know if the 312 ever came with a DI, and that's a pretty big improvement in the modern ones I'd say.
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Post by popmann on Dec 22, 2013 21:07:56 GMT -6
I thought the VP28 WAS aimed at sounding like an old 312?
I've got to be honest--I was SILLY excited when I first saw the CAPI unit with the sweep filters and "fader" knob...but, then when I saw that it was a line amp and not a mic pre...maybe it's a real estate thing (f'n 500 series)...but, it seems like filters and a preamp with output attenuation is exactly the right tracking...actually, to make it ideal, you add a DI and a single mid band notch able EQ--idea being you get out what's not supposed to be there and get optimum level to digital. Can you get two of those in a single 1U rack? Sweet. Thing is--I can't buy it from API...their channel strip has no sweep filters (the important part for me)...no "fader stage"...a compressor I don't care about...and more EQ than I would need to track with.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 22, 2013 21:34:14 GMT -6
The VP28 is more like the VP26, the "console preamp" from Jeff's console that's less like a 312. I still don't know where the 312 came from??? I also love the features from CAPI that API doesn't offer. And especially the fact that you can modify them as you are building them. And most of all the value. Of course, they sound good. I thought the VP28 WAS aimed at sounding like an old 312? [/span] [/quote] |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 22, 2013 22:02:23 GMT -6
The VC528 was designed to be like the stage after the pre and eq in an API console...hence the name "Missing Link". The smooth out transients, add cream in the mid range and the Hi Cut Filter was excellent at dulling the digital zing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2013 10:43:47 GMT -6
Wasn't there an opamp change at some point?
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Post by Guitar on Dec 23, 2013 14:27:36 GMT -6
Wasn't there an opamp change at some point? The API 2520 has evolved several times over the years. The new ones sound way different from the old ones. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 23, 2013 20:39:20 GMT -6
Scott Liebers Red Dots...
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 23, 2013 21:05:22 GMT -6
The red dots are old school , the blue dots are new API, Mr Stieger could clear up all these Qs easily...no?
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Post by Ward on Dec 23, 2013 23:15:47 GMT -6
The 312 is THE definitive APi sound. The newer 312s are still very good and the 3124+ is identical to them. I have a 3124+ that I use all the time. It's a beautiful thing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2013 13:27:14 GMT -6
Wasn't there an opamp change at some point? The API 2520 has evolved several times over the years. The new ones sound way different from the old ones. Yep this is what I thought, so I guess the original opamps would be the definitive API. I've always associated API preamps with the way drums go through them. |
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Post by Ward on Dec 26, 2013 11:50:59 GMT -6
I've always associated API preamps with the way drums go through them. That is correct/ The best explanation of the sound can be provided with examples of guitar amps and tom-toms recorded with API preamps. They punch through a dense mix with a mid-forward presence and CLEAN lower mid punch. There is clearly something that happens at 350, 600 and 2k that only presents itself in context. You don't always hear it on its own. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 26, 2013 16:12:24 GMT -6
Did I post that link to Fleetwood Mac Rumours in 24/96? A lot of that was done with the Wally Heider 312's, right? It sounds unbelievably great. Www.hdtracks.com |
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Post by Guitar on Dec 26, 2013 16:21:12 GMT -6
I've always associated API preamps with the way drums go through them. That is correct/ The best explanation of the sound can be provided with examples of guitar amps and tom-toms recorded with API preamps. They punch through a dense mix with a mid-forward presence and CLEAN lower mid punch. There is clearly something that happens at 350, 600 and 2k that only presents itself in context. You don't always hear it on its own. There is something about the transient response, too. I'm not sure if it's slow, fast, depending on frequency or what. But you get this real tight punching kind of blunt attack. You get this sense of "oomph." Even on an acoustic guitar. I would almost say the high is a little restrained, but the real kick comes through down in the mids like you said. I am not making this up. |
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Post by scumbum on Dec 27, 2013 18:01:18 GMT -6
I don't believe you . Seems to me that your on some strange API LSD trip to be hearing those things ....... Oh and by the way...........SPAGETT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by Guitar on Dec 27, 2013 18:06:03 GMT -6
Someone just said the secret word!!! Pee Wee
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Post by Ward on Dec 29, 2013 13:41:17 GMT -6
I could have sworn Mr. Herman said today's secret word was Fajina.
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