ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,957
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Post by ericn on Feb 5, 2017 16:13:35 GMT -6
ericn how you mix when they're in the room is not how you mix when they leave. True what I forgot to mention is the studio was in their bedroom, her husband was my assistant and had to mix there! So she kept coming in. Had to program and name presets at home. This is also why I love the Steadman N90, and the Heil studio dynamics, for the singer who "Won't use a dynamic " they look like Chinese Condensers!
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 5, 2017 16:20:09 GMT -6
If you mix this with your reverb you will see that it sits in the mix, because your brain needs reflections (Haas effect) to calculate the distance to the direct signal. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effectWhy not use a room for the early reflections instead of a Haas based 30-40 ms delay? Was downtown. Sitting in the train another good answer came to my mind. I am sure I also saw DP doing the delay trick with the M7. My impression is: With the delay you amplify the ERs. A lot of dense ERs... the source is up front for your brain. The absence of ERs is the opposite. To find the right spot its for me a combination of ERs / Compression / EQ and the right amount of subtle saturation layers. I cant only talk about the reverb part without talking about compression / EQ etc. It all helps to put a source in the right spot. Too bad that I am not a native speaker. Maybe someone can help? If I turn one screw I often have to turn other screws as well - to make it sit in the mix. That is how it works for me.
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Post by jjinvegas on Feb 6, 2017 3:53:53 GMT -6
I think the biggest factor in the recording I just heard was how that drum hit established sort of a baseline room size. Now the vocal in comparison does not seem as wet as it would without that aural clue to the implied size of the space. To get that seemingly drying out effect, in that you really only hear the verb on the trails after the vocal phrase, you run the verb on the same channel as the voice and compress at the end of the chain, while using the dry/wet baalance on the verb and the threshold of the compressor until the comp brings up the verb trails, but they disappear while the singing is going on. Cappiche??
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Post by swurveman on Feb 6, 2017 8:14:15 GMT -6
I think the biggest factor in the recording I just heard was how that drum hit established sort of a baseline room size. Now the vocal in comparison does not seem as wet as it would without that aural clue to the implied size of the space. To get that seemingly drying out effect, in that you really only hear the verb on the trails after the vocal phrase, you run the verb on the same channel as the voice and compress at the end of the chain, while using the dry/wet baalance on the verb and the threshold of the compressor until the comp brings up the verb trails, but they disappear while the singing is going on. Cappiche?? I agree that the drum hit established the baseline room size, depth. Thanks for the compressor advice. A question: On basic drums/guitars/bass songs, what instrument(s) do you use to establish your base room size? I think your mixes sound great btw. Bravo!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 6, 2017 10:07:33 GMT -6
Tying to visualize all this in Logic X. Say I have a vocal track, I first go to the channel EQ and roll off between 30 and 100 hz, depending. Then I put a little Smooth plug-in to dip the harsh frequencies a little, (It's like having fader control on a real time notch filter). Next, (assuming I'm not compressing for the moment), I have sends below. I usually put the Ocean Way plug first, ( I may begin tracking with it next time, so I can dial in different positions. ) Second I have the Relab XL480, usually on a Large Hall, with a little EQ on the plug itself, and I increase the pre-delay just a bit. Next I put a second reverb for width, usually a plate, often the Poor Plate, but occasionally the UAD EMT-140. On the vocal track itself, I sometimes put a delay, but use it on the lowest possible settings.
Now, in the Aux sends, where I put the 480 XL, and the EMT or Poor plate, I should put an EQ before the reverb? If so, which one? I have a dozen EQ's. I can use Apple's track EQ, Elysia's track or master mix, UAD's Massive Passive, SSL, API channel strips, Renaissance EQ, and probably a half dozen more I've forgotten I have.
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 6, 2017 13:20:07 GMT -6
Tying to visualize all this in Logic X. Say I have a vocal track, I first go to the channel EQ and roll off between 30 and 100 hz, depending. Then I put a little Smooth plug-in to dip the harsh frequencies a little, (It's like having fader control on a real time notch filter). Next, (assuming I'm not compressing for the moment), I have sends below. I usually put the Ocean Way plug first, ( I may begin tracking with it next time, so I can dial in different positions. ) Second I have the Relab XL480, usually on a Large Hall, with a little EQ on the plug itself, and I increase the pre-delay just a bit. Next I put a second reverb for width, usually a plate, often the Poor Plate, but occasionally the UAD EMT-140. On the vocal track itself, I sometimes put a delay, but use it on the lowest possible settings. Now, in the Aux sends, where I put the 480 XL, and the EMT or Poor plate, I should put an EQ before the reverb? If so, which one? I have a dozen EQ's. I can use Apple's track EQ, Elysia's track or master mix, UAD's Massive Passive, SSL, API channel strips, Renaissance EQ, and probably a half dozen more I've forgotten I have. You own the Slate tools? If yes I can send you the session from the song you liked....
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 6, 2017 14:08:41 GMT -6
thanks mrholmes. I only have Slate's VBC and FG-X, nothing else. A screenshot would be cool though.
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 6, 2017 15:38:41 GMT -6
Will try to make a screen video for you with this you can see all details....
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Post by jjinvegas on Feb 6, 2017 17:32:51 GMT -6
I think the biggest factor in the recording I just heard was how that drum hit established sort of a baseline room size. Now the vocal in comparison does not seem as wet as it would without that aural clue to the implied size of the space. To get that seemingly drying out effect, in that you really only hear the verb on the trails after the vocal phrase, you run the verb on the same channel as the voice and compress at the end of the chain, while using the dry/wet baalance on the verb and the threshold of the compressor until the comp brings up the verb trails, but they disappear while the singing is going on. Cappiche?? I agree that the drum hit established the baseline room size, depth. Thanks for the compressor advice. A question: On basic drums/guitars/bass songs, what instrument(s) do you use to establish your base room size? I think your mixes sound great btw. Bravo! Well, your typical band, the drums seem to be the most likely place to have some kind of room suggested. I do use a lot of reverb on guitar, but it is more to satisfy my sense memory of all those years playing Princeton Reverbs. And those are almost always Pod Farm spring reverb, I am not sure if it is even a good or mediocre emulaton, but it is what I have and the GUI LOOKS like an old reverb box.....smile. Reverb can be really great or a complete smear, and a lot depends on tempo and the density of the arrangement. Often times I am using delays, one set synced at quarter notes, the other longer to give the vocal the feeling of being somewhere, and I usually record vocals in omni, and my room has some reflective qualities. And I will typically fire a reverb off one of the delay returns, whichever one seems to suit. One little thing I have been doing for a while is I put up a tube condenser about 2 feet in front of the kick drum, about the level of my head when I am on the throne, angled down at the snare to get a snapshot of the kit. It gets some reflection from behind the kit, plus all the racket, and then I use that instead of feeding verbs of the individual drums so that it doesn't seem so corny. It also can be a sort of dryer, in that if you experiment with polarity and moving that track around at the sample level, nudging it around, sometimes something magic happens, and the kit gets all focused. This kind of thing can also lead to head scratching quandaries that only bourbon mixed with coke have any effect on, moderation is suggested. And some days I decide that dry is king, most of my favorite rock records are not INXS-styled celebrations of automation and keyed verb tails. I tend to like those mixes longer, and typically choose those down the road when I am sorting. Same basic answer offered as usual, IT DEPENDS, MAN.....hahahahaha cheers!!!!
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