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Post by mdmitch2 on Jan 13, 2017 18:45:11 GMT -6
I just picked one of these up 2nd hand, and it sounds (and looks) reeaaally nice. It's got a NOS mullard tube in one of the 12ax7 spots. Makes a vocal sound big/warm/smooth/sparkly .... pretty much what you'd expect I guess.
Anyone have one of these? Or have compared directly to the warm audio unit? I could sell this and buy three wa-2a's...
The only issue I have is a slight mains hum coming from the enclosure ... not sure if that's normal, and the audio itself is dead quiet.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 13, 2017 19:35:02 GMT -6
It seems the consensus is the Stam SA2A is superior sounding from members here on RGO who tested the warm vs the stam in a studio, on a day, on one particular vocalist, with one particular signal path, with its own monitoring setup and room which is different than yours....
Ok sorry the quality between these units may waver 5-10% 10% better being the best most vintage prized teletronix la2 vs a Gap / Warm / Drip / DIY / etc. It's up to you how much that 5-10 percent difference makes $ wise or investment wise. The reissue is still very nice however $3500 street price I would never pay.
I'm going vintage if: -If I'm Rolling in $$$$ -Tone freak -Client Request ( worthy client ) - big thriving business that's not a studio -have a self supporting profiting studio business where this piece would increase my profits, workflow, and sound by being written off
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Post by illacov on Jan 13, 2017 21:17:24 GMT -6
Im curious to hear the Comp2A.
If the Sowter LA2A transformer and the CM2810 fit in there it may be a sweet mod waiting to happen. Short of labor the 2A and trafos is circa $740.
I really like the high gain input of the LA2A. Input trafo has an obvious character to it and the input section, sidechain and makeup are fed healthy signal level from that 1:10 ratio beauty. Its really a tube mic pre with a compressor. Regarding the UA, the output supposedly is a Cinemag CM2810, input is Magnetika. That high ratio input iron is part of the legacy sound. Whoever nails that is ahead of the curve.
Thanks -L
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Post by EmRR on Jan 13, 2017 22:30:21 GMT -6
I wouldn't believe a damn thing anyone else says about it, get a Warm side by side and decide for yourself.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 13, 2017 22:45:56 GMT -6
Don't forget, you can always change the tubes in the WARM to match the LA2A, and then, you'd really know how they compare. I can't imaging the tubes would cost more than $150, and they're probably less.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 13, 2017 23:21:06 GMT -6
you only need one set of tubes to compare.
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Post by ragan on Jan 13, 2017 23:58:51 GMT -6
Yeah I don't think there's much 'consensus'. A couple loyal Stam fans here ('not that there's anything wrong with that') tend to imply that it's superior. I've only read a couple impressions of people who've actually put the Warm and Stam side by side. One thought the Stam had a slight edge, the other thought the Warm did. Both thought they sounded very similar.
I couldn't care less. I know the Warm sounds fantastic and I bet the Stam does too. Grab one and get to work.
Or if you've got the coin and consider the UA worth all that extra money, go for it.
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Post by illacov on Jan 14, 2017 0:05:10 GMT -6
So am I the only one curious to see what a $599 LA2A sounds like from Golden Age?
Thanks -L.
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Post by ragan on Jan 14, 2017 0:22:14 GMT -6
So am I the only one curious to see what a $599 LA2A sounds like from Golden Age? Thanks -L. No I'm curious too. I really liked the pair of COMP-3a's I had. I liked the COMP-54 too. I feel like I can hear the sound of their transformers. Could be imagining it but there is some commonality from the Pre73 to the COMP-54 and COMP-3a. I bet all of them benefit from xformer upgrades.
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Post by illacov on Jan 14, 2017 0:51:25 GMT -6
So am I the only one curious to see what a $599 LA2A sounds like from Golden Age? Thanks -L. No I'm curious too. I really liked the pair of COMP-3a's I had. I liked the COMP-54 too. I feel like I can hear the sound of their transformers. Could be imagining it but there is some commonality from the Pre73 to the COMP-54 and COMP-3a. I bet all of them benefit from xformer upgrades. I'd be curious to see how the upgraded Comp2A stacks up against the UA LA2A. The Sowter 1449 has the proper ratio and impedance ratings and is commonly requested for LA2A builds. One of the things that I've seen discussed rather frequently is that using a lower ratio input transformer can impact the sonics of the LA2A along with the compression behavior. Its all very fascinating that the LA2A is technically a mic preamp that gets fed line level signal (guess that theory of line for line only and mics for mic only goes out the window!) and gets compressed. The signal goes through the preamp section and that same signal feeds into the side chain tube, hits the compressor section, goes to the second AX7 tube and then to the cathode buffer tube. I wonder if hitting the side chain tube hotter impacts the linearity of the signal that goes into the detection circuitry. In other words a very dynamic signal, versus a squashed distorted signal that has less peaky information On the Stam Audio Facebook page one of their better known users upgraded the transformers to Sowter. Be curious to hear what changes that made. I also saw him (Joshua from Stam) mention on the purple site that he had some new iron he was trying out in his 2A designs. All of these things are of interest to me because I LUST for a pair of LA2A. Its the vocal compressor for my voice over on the Zulu commercials, just gooey gorgeous smoove like butta. Thanks -L.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 14, 2017 6:59:29 GMT -6
Yeah I don't think there's much 'consensus'. A couple loyal Stam fans here ('not that there's anything wrong with that') tend to imply that it's superior. I've only read a couple impressions of people who've actually put the Warm and Stam side by side. One thought the Stam had a slight edge, the other thought the Warm did. Both thought they sounded very similar. I couldn't care less. I know the Warm sounds fantastic and I bet the Stam does too. Grab one and get to work. Or if you've got the coin and consider the UA worth all that extra money, go for it. Not sure if you're referring to me or not. I'm not sure I'd consider myself a loyal Stam fan since I sold my 4000, but I do like his 2a. Mark and I compared his Warm and my Stam directly in a demo session and both preferred the Stam overall in that instance. That said, there were certain phrases that the Warm had the edge. Both are good units and would be contenders for making records. IMO, the Warm is a bit of a safer bet. Large dealer network to help you get problems sorted out. Don't need to ship your unit half way across the world if something goes wrong. The brand has a strong reputation and will probably be around for a while. Stam might too, but could very well be a flash in the pan. Anyway, the Stam is the only LA-2A style compressor that I own. The first time I slapped it on a vocal I thought, "yeah, that sounds fat, that's what I wanted". I've owned some other compressors that I thought would give me that sound (Brute, Doublewide) and fell short. Both good, but not that instant wow factor. Anyway, after hearing both of these units, I don't have any desire to get the UA reissue. My needs would be met with either of these.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 14, 2017 7:03:50 GMT -6
No I'm curious too. I really liked the pair of COMP-3a's I had. I liked the COMP-54 too. I feel like I can hear the sound of their transformers. Could be imagining it but there is some commonality from the Pre73 to the COMP-54 and COMP-3a. I bet all of them benefit from xformer upgrades. I'd be curious to see how the upgraded Comp2A stacks up against the UA LA2A. The Sowter 1449 has the proper ratio and impedance ratings and is commonly requested for LA2A builds. One of the things that I've seen discussed rather frequently is that using a lower ratio input transformer can impact the sonics of the LA2A along with the compression behavior. Its all very fascinating that the LA2A is technically a mic preamp that gets fed line level signal (guess that theory of line for line only and mics for mic only goes out the window!) and gets compressed. The signal goes through the preamp section and that same signal feeds into the side chain tube, hits the compressor section, goes to the second AX7 tube and then to the cathode buffer tube. I wonder if hitting the side chain tube hotter impacts the linearity of the signal that goes into the detection circuitry. In other words a very dynamic signal, versus a squashed distorted signal that has less peaky information On the Stam Audio Facebook page one of their better known users upgraded the transformers to Sowter. Be curious to hear what changes that made. I also saw him (Joshua from Stam) mention on the purple site that he had some new iron he was trying out in his 2A designs. All of these things are of interest to me because I LUST for a pair of LA2A. Its the vocal compressor for my voice over on the Zulu commercials, just gooey gorgeous smoove like butta. Thanks -L. I'd be willing to try the Comp-2a. Especially, when a couple bucks get knocked off on the used market. Almost bought @regan's 3a's when he was selling, but couldn't justify spending the money when I already have a Serpent. Stam said on GS that the new 2a's are going to ship with the Sowter. There is also an upgrade that you can do yourself. I'm happy with my unit as is, and wouldn't want to mess with it though. Not worth the extra dough for me.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jan 14, 2017 10:11:12 GMT -6
I sent out a reworked Universal/Teletronix LA-2A last week. I used the usual upgrades, quality film coupling caps (much larger to extend the low end below 20 hz) Dale metal film resistors in place of the carbon composition, huge power supply caps, fast recovery rectifiers, a reworked opto drive section and a rebuilt output section with increased current drive.
It is silent in operation, the tube hiss exceeds any hum/ripple. The re-issue UTC transformers are still weak, not much bandwidth and air. Usually I try to fit the Jensens but that layout was tight to fit the output transformer. Rebuilt ADL's with those Jensens sound better to my ears.
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Post by ragan on Jan 14, 2017 10:12:10 GMT -6
Yeah I don't think there's much 'consensus'. A couple loyal Stam fans here ('not that there's anything wrong with that') tend to imply that it's superior. I've only read a couple impressions of people who've actually put the Warm and Stam side by side. One thought the Stam had a slight edge, the other thought the Warm did. Both thought they sounded very similar. I couldn't care less. I know the Warm sounds fantastic and I bet the Stam does too. Grab one and get to work. Or if you've got the coin and consider the UA worth all that extra money, go for it. Not sure if you're referring to me or not. I'm not sure I'd consider myself a loyal Stam fan since I sold my 4000, but I do like his 2a. Mark and I compared his Warm and my Stam directly in a demo session and both preferred the Stam overall in that instance. That said, there were certain phrases that the Warm had the edge. Both are good units and would be contenders for making records. IMO, the Warm is a bit of a safer bet. Large dealer network to help you get problems sorted out. Don't need to ship your unit half way across the world if something goes wrong. The brand has a strong reputation and will probably be around for a while. Stam might too, but could very well be a flash in the pan. Anyway, the Stam is the only LA-2A style compressor that I own. The first time I slapped it on a vocal I thought, "yeah, that sounds fat, that's what I wanted". I've owned some other compressors that I thought would give me that sound (Brute, Doublewide) and fell short. Both good, but not that instant wow factor. Anyway, after hearing both of these units, I don't have any desire to get the UA reissue. My needs would be met with either of these. I was actually referring to you and Mark but only in the second part where I mention just a couple users who've actually had the two side by side. Good insight. There was another poster or two on GS who slightly preferred the Warm, finding it a tad thicker. But they too liked both units a lot.
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Post by stam on Jan 14, 2017 11:05:38 GMT -6
Ok, so a little story on transformers. When bringing the SA-2A to life I had seven prototypes made by Cinemag until we found the specs and models we liked the most which were very close sounding to the originals. After a year and on the constant search of improving my units I sent two SA-2A's to reputed producer Greg Wells (I am sure everybody knows who he is) and to Bill Jones from Kenettek who is one of the engineers I most respect and admire for his work. After running some tests Bill concluded that the Sowter's made a significant improvement and that they sounded much closer to a Vintage LA-2A, I was also told by Drip Electronics that the Sowters were identical to the UTC's a long time ago. The input transformer made the larger difference while the output made a slight improvement. All of this improvements were recorded and measured to make sure they were real. I then sent both compressors to Greg, who has 50k speakers, a bunch of vintage compressors and overall golden ears to see if he could hear what the specs said on papper. One of the SA-2A's had the Cinemags and the other Sowters, I did not tell him which had which. Greg came back to me and kept one, he said both sounded good but one was more 3D sounding and had quickly become his favorite compressor among so many vintage and expensive units, the one with the Sowters. The new SA/2A comes with a Sowter input transformer and a Cinemag output, this is the only way to maintain the same price but improve on the existing product, adding a Sowter output would push the price to 990 on pre/orders and 1.090 in stock. I also added NOS carbon resistors on the audio path on the new SA2A for a more vintage tone. The toroidal transformer has also been upgraded. So, long story short, I recommend moding the SA2A and replacing the input transformer, C9 must be replaced by a 270pf cap. This will make a far great difference than tubes. I am now using Sowter transformers in almost all products (SA87, 1176, 1073 and 312). They are more expensive and my margins have decreased but sound comes before money too me. I have never heard the WA-2A and it is not my place to say which one sounds the best even if I had, all I can say is that the new SA-2A sounds superior to the previous SA-2A which already sounded extremely good to me, so I am happy!. I will upload some documments to the website soon with all the information required to upgrade your units. The Sowter 1449f can be purchased from www.sowter.co.uk, the wiring and details will be uploaded to their website as well. Thanks!
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Post by mdmitch2 on Jan 14, 2017 13:10:17 GMT -6
I sent out a reworked Universal/Teletronix LA-2A last week. I used the usual upgrades, quality film coupling caps (much larger to extend the low end below 20 hz) Dale metal film resistors in place of the carbon composition, huge power supply caps, fast recovery rectifiers, a reworked opto drive section and a rebuilt output section with increased current drive. It is silent in operation, the tube hiss exceeds any hum/ripple. The re-issue UTC transformers are still weak, not much bandwidth and air. Usually I try to fit the Jensens but that layout was tight to fit the output transformer. Rebuilt ADL's with those Jensens sound better to my ears. Hey Jim, Did the stock unit emit any audible noise from the enclosure? Mine is making a slight hum similar to my neotek power supply.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 14, 2017 13:45:10 GMT -6
I was very disappointed by the excessive coloration I hear in the reissues that I don't remember from the originals.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 14, 2017 14:45:20 GMT -6
I have the LA-2A reissue. Love it. I've never heard the WA-2A but am curious.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 14, 2017 15:23:45 GMT -6
Why would I want my la2a freq response to go below 20hz when I eq that out anyway for the sake of loudness? Does the caps make the comp react ( compress ) the low into the freq range? How does this affect the overall compression circuit and action of the comp? I am trying to learn thanks.... jimwilliams jsteiger
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Post by Guitar on Jan 14, 2017 16:15:05 GMT -6
That's some good info, stam, in case I try a DIY. Right now I like the UAD LA-2A plugins so much that I feel like some hardware is inevitable. Not just on vocals, either.
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Post by bowie on Jan 14, 2017 17:55:14 GMT -6
I think the important thing to consider is what one is looking for in an LA2A. As in, why are you reaching for this particular piece of gear? I've built several and have experimented quite a bit with various components, everything from all-original parts to some of the best modern offerings. The compression characteristic isn't hard to get right if you have a decent T4 (thank you Bill at Kenetek). And, FWIW, I don't think LA2As are even great as compressors. They don't handle much GR without choking and offer little control. Most people I know use them because of the polish, the finished, "radio-ready" feel they add. That's where they're absolutely brilliant, IMO. It's common to use them with little to no gain reduction just for "that sound" of running through the circuit. That's my fascination with the LA2A, getting that sweetness and gloss to come through.
Some build theirs to sound clean. Which is respectable, but I personally don't get much out of that as I think there are better clean sounding compressors out there. What I look for is what influence the components have on the tonal balance, dynamics, harmonic overtones, etc. I haven't found any modern options to sound a whole lot like the UTCs (relatively speaking), and even the UTCs vary from each other depending whether you're using the HA-100x (and which era), A10, older black-can versions of the A10, etc, etc. But, the Sowters are very nice in their own regard. Your output cap is another area of tonal influence (the original choice can be improved upon, IMO), amplifier section tubes, and so on. I'm always skeptical when things are claimed to be "just like the original", because they're usually not. However, that doesn't mean they can't be as good or better. I don't build mine to sound just like the originals because I feel there are positive ways to change the sound, in one direction or the other. Some of those old parts sound glorious, others not so much.
I think, what people should should be asking is not so much what the "best" ones is, because there are a lot of different, yet correct answers to that question. But rather, is this particular LA-2A version doing what I want an LA2A to do? Every time I've built one I've made it sound different from the last, yet I've liked them all in their own ways. I've talked to many people who have bought or even BUILT them without even knowing exactly what an LA-2A sounds like before hand. Find out which clone one does what you're looking for. I had a partner who LOVED it on snare because of the way it missed the transient and bloomed on the room reflections. Everyone has their own idea of what sounds good to them.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 14, 2017 18:22:25 GMT -6
The compression characteristic isn't hard to get right if you have a decent T4 (thank you Bill at Kenetek). And, FWIW, I don't think LA2As are even great as compressors. They don't handle much GR without choking and offer little control. Most people I know use them because of the polish, the finished, "radio-ready" feel they add. That's where they're absolutely brilliant, IMO. It's common to use them with little to no gain reduction just for "that sound" of running through the circuit. That's my fascination with the LA2A, getting that sweetness and gloss to come through. It's hard to explain sound, but choking as I understand it sounds nothing like my UA LA-2A reissue. I often have 20 db of gain reduction and don't feel a choking sound at at all. What I hear on a vocal sounds like a rubber band stretching, but in a wonderfully pleasing way. It has a wonderful interplay with the dynamic range of the singer.
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Post by bowie on Jan 14, 2017 18:43:26 GMT -6
The compression characteristic isn't hard to get right if you have a decent T4 (thank you Bill at Kenetek). And, FWIW, I don't think LA2As are even great as compressors. They don't handle much GR without choking and offer little control. Most people I know use them because of the polish, the finished, "radio-ready" feel they add. That's where they're absolutely brilliant, IMO. It's common to use them with little to no gain reduction just for "that sound" of running through the circuit. That's my fascination with the LA2A, getting that sweetness and gloss to come through. It's hard to explain sound, but choking as I understand it sounds nothing like my UA LA-2A reissue. I often have 20 db of gain reduction and don't feel a choking sound at at all. What I hear on a vocal sounds like a rubber band stretching, but in a wonderfully pleasing way. It has a wonderful interplay with the dynamic range of the singer. The character starts to change past 6db GR. I've heard many describe it as being darker but to me it's something more. It's a bit "pinched" and smaller than if I were using an 1176, StaLevel, etc at something like 15dB GR. I get the impression that's why a lot of engineers use an 1176 and LA2A together. The 1176 to handle the heavy gain reduction and shave peaks, followed by an LA2A for the tonal enhancements, and to massage just a little more gain reduction onto the source. Not discrediting your opinions at all, just explaining my previous post.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 19:58:13 GMT -6
It's hard to explain sound, but choking as I understand it sounds nothing like my UA LA-2A reissue. I often have 20 db of gain reduction and don't feel a choking sound at at all. What I hear on a vocal sounds like a rubber band stretching, but in a wonderfully pleasing way. It has a wonderful interplay with the dynamic range of the singer. The character starts to change past 6db GR. I've heard many describe it as being darker but to me it's something more. It's a bit "pinched" and smaller than if I were using an 1176, StaLevel, etc at something like 15dB GR. I get the impression that's why a lot of engineers use an 1176 and LA2A together. The 1176 to handle the heavy gain reduction and shave peaks, followed by an LA2A for the tonal enhancements, and to massage just a little more gain reduction onto the source. Not discrediting your opinions at all, just explaining my previous post. I've probably never run into any issues because as long as I can rember I've always stacked compressors for vox. I read something about it on a CLA article years back / tried it and never looked back. Works surprisingly well with ITB compressors too.! I just bought a WA2A to stack it over an LA2A re-issue, so that'll be interesting to see what happens. If nothing else the LA2A's smooth out vocals really well, whereas a 1176 seems to drag out the worst quality's of some mic's if you push your luck.. 1176's and API's are my goto for drums, whether ITB / OTB they really handle snappy transients well. Ultimatley I'm wondering how an LA2A / LA3A (like GAP's 3A) would sound? Might be an interesting experiment, I'll try it ITB first me thinks.. I understand it won't be like for like, but it'll give me a ballpark to work form.
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Post by popmann on Jan 14, 2017 20:18:52 GMT -6
I think you should definitely buy an La3a before the prices become unobtanium. If only we knew someone willing to sell. Ha.
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