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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 5, 2017 18:00:04 GMT -6
Have a friend that's looking at a Mac mini. Just wondering if - with an ssd boot drive and 16gb ram the i7 is necessary?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 18:03:04 GMT -6
Have a friend that's looking at a Mac mini. Just wondering if - with an ssd boot drive and 16gb ram the i7 is necessary? Are they using it for music? If the answer is yes then an I7 would be ideal if not then an I5 will suffice for most things..
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 5, 2017 18:12:13 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 5, 2017 18:12:20 GMT -6
Yes. Music
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 5, 2017 18:14:18 GMT -6
Huh. So the i5 iMacs score way higher than my 2012 Mac mini.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 5, 2017 18:27:26 GMT -6
quad vs duo core ?
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 5, 2017 23:32:30 GMT -6
If it's a Mac mini then quad core all the way, or even a iMac for music I recommended quad core i7... I am anxiously awaiting a new Mac Pro... however a suped up iMac will definitely put in some work and handle most work loads...
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Post by mjheck on Jan 6, 2017 8:43:28 GMT -6
I'm sure you've probably already read this, but my understanding is the I7 chip allows for hyper threading, essentially turning a quad core into an eight core machine. This helps given the way a DAW (or at least Logic) handles channel strips. The I5 does not, as far as I know.
MJH
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Post by popmann on Jan 6, 2017 16:42:56 GMT -6
the answer is with the current mini model options, it's mostly irrelevant. Whereas the difference in that same $200 upgrade "i5 vs i7" in a 27" iMac is nearly twice the horsepower, so really only a tech fool would choose the stock i5.
Minis use "mobile versions" of the processors. Nearly everything said in this thread relates to desktop CPUs. They are both dual cores....they BOTH have hyperthreading. There's only a tiny 5-10% difference in CPU horsepower--spend in on the PCIe drive whee it will make a BLINDING difference over a 5400 rpm magnetic, which is all they use now in those. In fact--another bit of advice? If he can't spend on the PCIE, skip the "fusion" bullshit. Why? Because for music application, Fusion drives ARE 5400 rpm old drives other than launching the app itself....the random reads of VI samples or the big streaming of different audio files from project to project will NOT land in a Fusion drive's small SSD "cache"--but, the bigger reason is that if you get the PCIe, you're cooking with gas--and can add a SECOND standard SATA SSD....if you buy the "regular" drive, you can replace IT with a standard SSD but can only have the one internal drive....if you buy a Fusion, you're fucked--because that uses BOTH the PCIe slot AND the SATA bay and marries then at the BIOS level--so, when it fails, and it will, you have to take it to apple to revive....and you can't upgrade the drive ever.
This is a BIG deal with Apple's current line, because everyone I know is doing a quick web search and buying the "fusion" because in benchmarks it looks like "close to SSD performance but as big as a magnetic"---bullshit. For music its' the WORST of the three options.
MINI= i5/16gb/512gb PCIe SSD= $1800-2k or something....add a couple hundo for another standards SATA SSD if he needs more storage.
Personally, and I know no one wants to hear an upsell, but once I'm payin' $2k for a computer, I'd rather pay $3200 and get a 4ghzx8 i7/16gb/1tb PCIe SSD iMac. I mean $2k for a little (relative to market) low powered computer is SUPER expensive--at least the iMac has dedicated GPU, desktop CPU, and Samsung's faster than retail PCIe SSD chips....and it COMES with the mouse and keyboard....ehm....and.....gorgeous Retina display. YMMV.
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Post by wiz on Jan 6, 2017 16:45:11 GMT -6
I run 3.2Ghz i5 iMac with 8 GB of ram
I don't run Virtual Instruments though... or shedloads of plug ins...
I do edit HD video from time to time...
works for me (just a differing opinion from my side of the fence)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 6, 2017 17:11:27 GMT -6
I have the 6,2 Mac Mini.
Quad i7, 2.6Ghz, 16GB Ram (that I installed later myself), and SSD
Works great for me. Lots of my plugins are handled with the Uad hardware, but even without it I haven't had issues with plugin instances etc.
I hardly ever use any software instruments besides Superior Drummer though, and if I do I've usually printed the drums to audio tracks before plugins start going on anything.
I have it in a 1RU enclosure that can hold 2 of them side by side. Case is in a rack with my Apollo, D-Box, hard drives, and a few other things. I have another tall rack case on wheels with my preamps and comps. I can load up my car with my gear for a mobile gig in about ten mins. When I get there, take off the front and backs of the rack, plug in a few DB25 cables and I'm all ready to rock and roll. That was my main reasoning behind the Mini - its just super portable, and I can plug it in to anybody's TV or computer screen with an HDMI (or just bring my own if need be).
A buddy of mine did tell me that when they did the last upgrade they actually slowed the Mini down for some reason. Not sure if that is true or not.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 17:43:22 GMT -6
the answer is with the current mini model options, it's mostly irrelevant. Whereas the difference in that same $200 upgrade "i5 vs i7" in a 27" iMac is nearly twice the horsepower, so really only a tech fool would choose the stock i5. Minis use "mobile versions" of the processors. Nearly everything said in this thread relates to desktop CPUs. They are both dual cores....they BOTH have hyperthreading. There's only a tiny 5-10% difference in CPU horsepower--spend in on the PCIe drive whee it will make a BLINDING difference over a 5400 rpm magnetic, which is all they use now in those. In fact--another bit of advice? If he can't spend on the PCIE, skip the "fusion" bullshit. Why? Because for music application, Fusion drives ARE 5400 rpm old drives other than launching the app itself....the random reads of VI samples or the big streaming of different audio files from project to project will NOT land in a Fusion drive's small SSD "cache"--but, the bigger reason is that if you get the PCIe, you're cooking with gas--and can add a SECOND standard SATA SSD....if you buy the "regular" drive, you can replace IT with a standard SSD but can only have the one internal drive....if you buy a Fusion, you're fucked--because that uses BOTH the PCIe slot AND the SATA bay and marries then at the BIOS level--so, when it fails, and it will, you have to take it to apple to revive....and you can't upgrade the drive ever. This is a BIG deal with Apple's current line, because everyone I know is doing a quick web search and buying the "fusion" because in benchmarks it looks like "close to SSD performance but as big as a magnetic"---bullshit. For music its' the WORST of the three options. MINI= i5/16gb/512gb PCIe SSD= $1800-2k or something....add a couple hundo for another standards SATA SSD if he needs more storage. Personally, and I know no one wants to hear an upsell, but once I'm payin' $2k for a computer, I'd rather pay $3200 and get a 4ghzx8 i7/16gb/1tb PCIe SSD iMac. I mean $2k for a little (relative to market) low powered computer is SUPER expensive--at least the iMac has dedicated GPU, desktop CPU, and Samsung's faster than retail PCIe SSD chips....and it COMES with the mouse and keyboard....ehm....and.....gorgeous Retina display. YMMV. If someone must insist on going MAC for reasons I can't seem to grasp, I always recommend the older model I had with a quad I7 2.3GHZ / 2.6GHZ and a dedicated SSD (seen quite a few about).. I gather the decent MAC mini's they used to make were a little too good, they didn't like it and decided they'd gimp it so people would pony up for the IMAC. Or they could just get a PC that would cost about the same as an I7 Mac Mini but would obliterate it (and any IMAC) in terms of overall performance. If they're looking for a MAC mini, I gather its due to budget. There's some really great interfaces that work with PC's nowadays which is nice.. That wasn't always the case..
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 6, 2017 18:23:56 GMT -6
the answer is with the current mini model options, it's mostly irrelevant. Whereas the difference in that same $200 upgrade "i5 vs i7" in a 27" iMac is nearly twice the horsepower, so really only a tech fool would choose the stock i5. Minis use "mobile versions" of the processors. Nearly everything said in this thread relates to desktop CPUs. They are both dual cores....they BOTH have hyperthreading. There's only a tiny 5-10% difference in CPU horsepower--spend in on the PCIe drive whee it will make a BLINDING difference over a 5400 rpm magnetic, which is all they use now in those. In fact--another bit of advice? If he can't spend on the PCIE, skip the "fusion" bullshit. Why? Because for music application, Fusion drives ARE 5400 rpm old drives other than launching the app itself....the random reads of VI samples or the big streaming of different audio files from project to project will NOT land in a Fusion drive's small SSD "cache"--but, the bigger reason is that if you get the PCIe, you're cooking with gas--and can add a SECOND standard SATA SSD....if you buy the "regular" drive, you can replace IT with a standard SSD but can only have the one internal drive....if you buy a Fusion, you're fucked--because that uses BOTH the PCIe slot AND the SATA bay and marries then at the BIOS level--so, when it fails, and it will, you have to take it to apple to revive....and you can't upgrade the drive ever. This is a BIG deal with Apple's current line, because everyone I know is doing a quick web search and buying the "fusion" because in benchmarks it looks like "close to SSD performance but as big as a magnetic"---bullshit. For music its' the WORST of the three options. MINI= i5/16gb/512gb PCIe SSD= $1800-2k or something....add a couple hundo for another standards SATA SSD if he needs more storage. Personally, and I know no one wants to hear an upsell, but once I'm payin' $2k for a computer, I'd rather pay $3200 and get a 4ghzx8 i7/16gb/1tb PCIe SSD iMac. I mean $2k for a little (relative to market) low powered computer is SUPER expensive--at least the iMac has dedicated GPU, desktop CPU, and Samsung's faster than retail PCIe SSD chips....and it COMES with the mouse and keyboard....ehm....and.....gorgeous Retina display. YMMV. That would actually be much cheaper...$699 for mid level i5 mac mini. $150 for Samsung SSD. $79 for two 16GB sticks. Equals $928...I would actually just spring for the i7 $300 more.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 6, 2017 18:46:14 GMT -6
the answer is with the current mini model options, it's mostly irrelevant. Whereas the difference in that same $200 upgrade "i5 vs i7" in a 27" iMac is nearly twice the horsepower, so really only a tech fool would choose the stock i5. Minis use "mobile versions" of the processors. Nearly everything said in this thread relates to desktop CPUs. They are both dual cores....they BOTH have hyperthreading. There's only a tiny 5-10% difference in CPU horsepower--spend in on the PCIe drive whee it will make a BLINDING difference over a 5400 rpm magnetic, which is all they use now in those. In fact--another bit of advice? If he can't spend on the PCIE, skip the "fusion" bullshit. Why? Because for music application, Fusion drives ARE 5400 rpm old drives other than launching the app itself....the random reads of VI samples or the big streaming of different audio files from project to project will NOT land in a Fusion drive's small SSD "cache"--but, the bigger reason is that if you get the PCIe, you're cooking with gas--and can add a SECOND standard SATA SSD....if you buy the "regular" drive, you can replace IT with a standard SSD but can only have the one internal drive....if you buy a Fusion, you're fucked--because that uses BOTH the PCIe slot AND the SATA bay and marries then at the BIOS level--so, when it fails, and it will, you have to take it to apple to revive....and you can't upgrade the drive ever. This is a BIG deal with Apple's current line, because everyone I know is doing a quick web search and buying the "fusion" because in benchmarks it looks like "close to SSD performance but as big as a magnetic"---bullshit. For music its' the WORST of the three options. MINI= i5/16gb/512gb PCIe SSD= $1800-2k or something....add a couple hundo for another standards SATA SSD if he needs more storage. Personally, and I know no one wants to hear an upsell, but once I'm payin' $2k for a computer, I'd rather pay $3200 and get a 4ghzx8 i7/16gb/1tb PCIe SSD iMac. I mean $2k for a little (relative to market) low powered computer is SUPER expensive--at least the iMac has dedicated GPU, desktop CPU, and Samsung's faster than retail PCIe SSD chips....and it COMES with the mouse and keyboard....ehm....and.....gorgeous Retina display. YMMV. That would actually be much cheaper...$699 for mid level i5 mac mini. $150 for Samsung SSD. $79 for two 16GB sticks. Equals $928...I would actually just spring for the i7 $300 more. Drive and RAM soldered in on those, or nah?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 18:54:59 GMT -6
That would actually be much cheaper...$699 for mid level i5 mac mini. $150 for Samsung SSD. $79 for two 16GB sticks. Equals $928...I would actually just spring for the i7 $300 more. Is that for the new gen or previous gen? Again, with only a dual core I7 in the new gen you'd be much better off picking up a previous gen with a dedicated SSD for the main stuff and a 1TB standard drive for samples etc.
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Post by popmann on Jan 6, 2017 19:00:54 GMT -6
Do your pricing on Apple's site.....you can't upgrade the RAM on MINIs. And there's now only ONE drive bay--which is why I said NOT getting the fusion was a big deal. the only way that machine will have TWO drives, is if you buy the PCIe stock from apple and THEN put an aftermarket 2.5" SATA into the empty bay.
My pricing was high....I was only looking at the 1TB PCIe SSD. $1799. But, it's also not what you're estimating counting on aftermarket upgrades.
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Post by popmann on Jan 6, 2017 19:05:36 GMT -6
He won't get out under $1k. The bang for the buck will be to choose the top tier mini, 512gb PCIe, 16gb....$1399.
That config will leave open the 2.5" bay for a single HDD or SSD later (or now).
the cheapest option will be that mid tier with a stock magnetic and 16gb ($899) and someone to replace/reinstall that single drive with a $170 Samsung. So $1099.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 6, 2017 20:14:44 GMT -6
Oh - so you're saying my late 2012 i7 is more powerful than the new mac mini i7? I have a late 2012 2.6 i7 - guess it's a quad core. It's more than enough for what I do - and what he does. Are these new ones gonna be less powerful?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 20:27:07 GMT -6
Oh - so you're saying my late 2012 i7 is more powerful than the new mac mini i7? I have a late 2012 2.6 i7 - guess it's a quad core. It's more than enough for what I do - and what he does. Are these new ones gonna be less powerful? Aha, there we are ... Yes, on a decent multi-threaded DAW (which is most of them nowadays) a dual core won't keep up.. He'd be much better off with what you have.. Also as popmann said, with the new stuff they've soldered most of everything to the board so there's no way to upgrade. I did upgrade my RAM in the version you have. Also I've not seen them anywhere near the prices you mentioned.. Amazon have the 3.0GHZ version down as 1449 - taxes. Issue is, people realised that the new one's aren't as good.. So they of course went up in price, but you can still pick a decent used one up for less than 1K ..
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Post by popmann on Jan 6, 2017 21:55:47 GMT -6
Oh - so you're saying my late 2012 i7 is more powerful than the new mac mini i7? I have a late 2012 2.6 i7 - guess it's a quad core. It's more than enough for what I do - and what he does. Are these new ones gonna be less powerful? It will have less number crunching ability. By a good long shot. Audio DSP isn't a computer, though. In that time drive speed has outstripped SATA6 (thus the PCIe options) and intel really hasn't MADE faster mobile chips--they've made better integrated graphic pipelines and made them run cooler via advanced power management. So, for day to day operation, the new one should feel snappier. And if you take the rec, the PCIe drive will load VIs and apps exponentially faster. But yes....I feel like we've had this discussion....HERE.....before...Apple has intentionally cut the DSP off EVERYTHING below "Pro" and 27" iMacs since 2012. Your multicore which WAS the highest end mini in 2012, fwiw-Geekbench64: 12567 the HIGHEST END Mini (3ghz i7) today: 7308
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 6, 2017 22:03:27 GMT -6
Daaaammmnnn
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Post by popmann on Jan 6, 2017 22:18:49 GMT -6
And the 2.8 i5 that's a step down that I said don't bother iwth teh i7? 7105. Is that 3% faster, the i7? Now, the one you actually meant, which is TWO steps down is 6626. So, there's a little more....still....I personally wouldn't pay the $300 more for it....but, then I don't often hit CPU bottlenecks at 88.2 on my solid 3000 and 3500 machines....so....I'm not the one to "sell" the value of audio DSP.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 7, 2017 0:06:45 GMT -6
you can put 32GB of ram in a 2011 27" iMac i7. it also has a DVD drive that you can replace with a 2nd SSD drive. it's a solid machine if you put SSDs in it.
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Post by Quint on Jan 7, 2017 0:35:55 GMT -6
I'm selling my 2012 Mac Mini if anybody is interested? I bought it specifically for all the reasons already mentioned in this thread. That being said, I've always been a pc guy. I only bought it because I wanted to go thunderbolt with my Apollo. Now that UA has gone thunderbolt on Windows, I have no use for it (and never got around to really using it anyway). It's the 2.3ghz i7 quad everyone wants. 16gb ram and a 250gb ssd.
I need to put an ad up in the classifieds but I've been lazy. I'd let it go for a fair price. I've pretty much only used it to watch Netflix in my living room.
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Post by reddirt on Jan 7, 2017 5:24:53 GMT -6
Hey Quint, what are we talking?
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