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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 28, 2016 6:28:03 GMT -6
In my smaller rom with its odd nodes I have started to find my one eighteens a little big voiced I got in some one 15's yesterday to re-demo ( I had had them before).
Basic difference is larger and smaller bass speaker and passive radiator.
The one 15s tend to sound tighter and faster,at first a little more mid forward and not as deep and full, same tweeter and surround but the top end sounds a little clearer, probably due to lesser bass response and air moving around ?
I have been remeasuring my room using REW and with the help of MrHolmes and others here interpreting the freq graphs and have moved my monitors back close to the front wall. Good news is above 1,000 cycles, I have pretty consistent .400 decay, below bit of a dog's breakfast with the nodes and cancellations although moving the monitors has brought the nodes up.
But the one fifteens on my iso-acoutics stands are certainly sounding good (better) tighter and clearer.
I'll keep experimenting but I think next summer I will move the right hand wall (its the end of an interior garage) so grabbing a few feet is no big deal.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 28, 2016 6:59:43 GMT -6
Ha! Exactly what I did. Had both the 18's and 15's initially, kept the 18's. A year later got the 15's back in to demo and found the 15's to sound tighter, more forward, and better separation between notes. The ah-ha moment was listening to the bgv's on a couple tracks (Pink Floyd, The Black Keys). On the 18's, they sounded lush and full and like a wall of sound. But on the 15's, I could actually pick out the individual voices! I'm sure my room was the deciding factor, but I've read so many other confirming opinions that the 15's are where it's at for mixing speakers. The 18's have a touch more extension in the highs and lows, are more laid back compared to the slightly more forward 15's. Reverb tails were more noticeable on the 18's. But the 15's give you enough of everything and doesn't let anything else get in the way. I think most are even not using subs with their 15's to mix. They go surprisingly loud and low. You can read the woofer excursion to judge low end as well.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 28, 2016 8:29:19 GMT -6
I get how the one 18s would really work in a bigger room though: its just energy and physics  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 28, 2016 8:54:18 GMT -6
I thought the 15s "sounded" a little better too...just seemed like the speakers were moving more air and had more dimension. I ultimately chose the 18s because I was concerned about volume when I needed it. And the fact that the 15s look like computer monitors - they're tiny lol. Guess I'm compensating for something. But now you're haunting me.
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Post by reddirt on Dec 29, 2016 15:39:47 GMT -6
Just to give you more second guessing John; I've got a pair of one 15's in at the mo and whilst the biggest determinant is my treated heavily but still rubbish room, I think they are a fine speaker and appear to be slowly getting better as they break in.
My one query is the 120 - 200 cycles region which appears a little dominant on voices but am hoping break in and better placement will fix that.
Obvious plusses are the stereo placement and generally believable presentation. To my surprise, the bass is actually very good and the separate amp 100 would appear to be doing it's job very well.
A great bonus is they marry well with my Grado PS 500 cans (similar voicing) so changes made on one readily reflect on the other.
Also got the Amphion cables at a reasonable discount as I didn't want to 2nd guess that one. (Even though the distributor said he couldn't hear any diff with Mogami.)
Didn't try the 18's as I'm miles from anywhere and can't afford return transport let alone the pricier spkr.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 29, 2016 15:43:50 GMT -6
I gave up my Amp100 in favor of a Parasound A21.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 29, 2016 18:11:17 GMT -6
I use a modded (Jim Williams) adcom, very nice !
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Post by pope on Dec 29, 2016 18:17:52 GMT -6
Hmm, it looks like you guys like the amphions. Never tried them myself but I had the impression that 90% of their reputation is based on the hype in the purple forum |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 29, 2016 19:05:52 GMT -6
I won't comment on the hype but I will say I am very pleased with them. I would certainly recommend you audition them if you are in the market. They are very well designed and executed but monitors are very personal so only you can say what works for you.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 29, 2016 20:07:10 GMT -6
You should try them
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Post by pope on Dec 29, 2016 20:09:37 GMT -6
Will try them sooner or later. It's just that I have the feeling I can get something better in that price range (inc. the amp) And generally speaking I'm a fan of active speakers for some reason. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 29, 2016 21:00:31 GMT -6
I re did my REW measurements with the Amphion One fifteen and after discussing the measurements extensively with Mrholmes , who has kindly reviewed a number of graphs and helped critique the current room's sonic behaviour, he recommended I move the monitors back up against the front wall to re baseline things and to see what happens to the room nodes etc. The good news is that above about 800 cycles the room performs pretty consistently but below 800 I have a number of nodes and cycles that are problematic. The top right had side of the waterfall graphs show duration by frequency in milliseconds, closer toward the front of the graph shows notes that the room is holding onto: not good, look at about 100, 200ish, 300 adn 400, but I used to have a huge trough at about 100 screwing up the kick and lower bass and this has move up to around 500 and is lessoned in severity. l So the solution is more bass trapping. I bought 3 12 x33 x70 inch book cases on sale today and I will build a wall of absorption behind my monitors 12 inches deep to slay these room nodes or at least that is the idea. I will re position absorbers from 70 inches up to the ceiling behind the monitors too. See Waterfall graph 20-800 cycles, this is of the one fifteens, 32 inches apart and on iso-acoutics stands,  |
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Post by swurveman on Dec 30, 2016 9:41:04 GMT -6
Ha! Exactly what I did. Had both the 18's and 15's initially, kept the 18's. A year later got the 15's back in to demo and found the 15's to sound tighter, more forward, and better separation between notes. The ah-ha moment was listening to the bgv's on a couple tracks (Pink Floyd, The Black Keys). On the 18's, they sounded lush and full and like a wall of sound. But on the 15's, I could actually pick out the individual voices! I'm sure my room was the deciding factor, but I've read so many other confirming opinions that the 15's are where it's at for mixing speakers. The 18's have a touch more extension in the highs and lows, are more laid back compared to the slightly more forward 15's. Reverb tails were more noticeable on the 18's. But the 15's give you enough of everything and doesn't let anything else get in the way. I think most are even not using subs with their 15's to mix. They go surprisingly loud and low. You can read the woofer excursion to judge low end as well. How big is your mixing room? |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 30, 2016 17:57:59 GMT -6
Plan A or B ? Kcat's wall of no sound So, I have 2 of the 3 book cases built and stuffed but not covered yet. They are roughly 3x6x1 and now have 12 inches of roxal safe and sound insulation in them. Basically, I took apart some absorbers I had made and cut things to fit and put them in in three overlapping layers so none of the cut joints align. front to back. There is about an inch left at the front so I may buy some rigid roxul sheet as it makes a nice finish face and will add even more depth for coefficients. They are a cherry veneer so I will use either white or black covering, so they won't look too bad either. I got some black 12 inch shelving cut so I can make boxes for the tops of each unit, so when finished they will be almost floor to ceiling and they are all mounted on small rubber wheeled casters to ease moving them around. The additional height will take care of the nasty wall ceiling joint, just another bad corner. With removing some absorbers and building up these deeper ones, I can already hear that the sound in the room is moving around differently and sounds better to me. Will be interesting to redo the REW tests.  |
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