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Post by swurveman on Nov 28, 2016 13:03:04 GMT -6
So I got this Slate Rock Mix Tutorial that has 33 Virtual Tape Machine (VTM) instances on the channels and Mix Bus.
Can you tell which Mix has the VTM's?
Mix A
https%3A//soundcloud.com/songflowerrecording/slate-the-bottle-mix-a-1
Mix B
https%3A//soundcloud.com/songflowerrecording/slate-the-bottle-mix-b
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 28, 2016 13:17:24 GMT -6
Without listening, I would guess B.  |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 28, 2016 13:18:55 GMT -6
...uhhhh...Mix A has no bass.
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Post by ragan on Nov 28, 2016 13:20:21 GMT -6
Without listening, I would guess B. Heh, yeah that waveform is a giveaway. But it's pretty easy to hear too if you've used VTM. Which reminds me.... illacov gimme that Zulu! |
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Post by ragan on Nov 28, 2016 13:21:17 GMT -6
...uhhhh...Mix A has no bass. Doh! Not just like, no low end, but no bass guitar at all. |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 28, 2016 13:37:37 GMT -6
...uhhhh...Mix A has no bass. Doh! Not just like, no low end, but no bass guitar at all. It's there.However, since Pro Tools kept stopping because the software (PT11)said I'd run out of CPU (Intel i7) I had to bounce offline. So, I couldn't hear it and PT didn't bounce it. Shoulda done it in Cubase. Sorry, I'll keep trying.... Fixed now..... |
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Post by M57 on Nov 28, 2016 14:16:20 GMT -6
I was going to mention this in another thread, but I just threw VTM across some 30 some odd channels (and VMR) and I noticed that they're not easy on my machine. I always bounce off-line because once in, I'm entirely ITB, but I'm going to say it took triple the time for my iMac to crunch through a bounce - maybe even longer. Also, I'm real glad that I just threw 8 more GB of RAM on my machine, bringing it to 16 RAM, because it chews into that too.
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Post by swurveman on Nov 28, 2016 15:46:16 GMT -6
I was going to mention this in another thread, but I just threw VTM across some 30 some odd channels (and VMR) and I noticed that they're not easy on my machine. I always bounce off-line because once in, I'm entirely ITB, but I'm going to say it took triple the time for my iMac to crunch through a bounce - maybe even longer. Also, I'm real glad that I just threw 8 more GB of RAM on my machine, bringing it to 16 RAM, because it chews into that too. I don't have any problems processing it in Cubase. I don't know what the deal is with PT. Even if I don't have a lot of plugin instances it will sometimes stop and tell me I'm overloading the CPU when I"m clearly not. It is interesting to see how Slate uses it. He hits the vocals guitars and bass right near the red, but the drums get about half the way there at the hardest hit. He also uses 30 ips for individual channels and 15 ips for the Mix Bus. |
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Post by wiz on Nov 28, 2016 15:57:34 GMT -6
B tape?
cheers
Wiz
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Post by illacov on Nov 28, 2016 17:43:53 GMT -6
I'm doing everything I can to give Zulu to the world right now Ragan. LOL
Interesting thread. That's all I can professionally comment since its not about my product.
Thanks
-L.
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Post by swurveman on Nov 29, 2016 9:11:59 GMT -6
109 visits and only two votes.I don't know if that speaks to apathy about Virtual Tape or people not really hearing a difference or being unsure and not wanting to be wrong.
The 33 instances are on Mix B.It's not a huge difference, but imo it improves the sound.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 29, 2016 9:20:20 GMT -6
109 visits and only two votes.I don't know if that speaks to apathy about Virtual Tape or people not really hearing a difference or being unsure and not wanting to be wrong. The 33 instances are on Mix B.It's not a huge difference, but imo it improves the sound. Not huge? I think it's absolutely huge. Much bigger difference here than the difference between most hardware and their plugin emulations. |
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Post by M57 on Nov 29, 2016 10:32:12 GMT -6
B is much louder and I'm not doing any level matching, but I'm picking A. Mind you, I'm a hack - but I do have VTM, so..
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Post by wiz on Nov 29, 2016 14:48:45 GMT -6
109 visits and only two votes.I don't know if that speaks to apathy about Virtual Tape or people not really hearing a difference or being unsure and not wanting to be wrong. The 33 instances are on Mix B.It's not a huge difference, but imo it improves the sound. I think people are just forgetting the amount of effort it takes to do this sort of stuff... If you do listen, take the time to post, comment or at least like... Otherwise its like eating at someones house and not saying thank you ... You don't have to like the food, but always be gracious... cheers Wiz |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 29, 2016 16:42:58 GMT -6
109 visits and only two votes.I don't know if that speaks to apathy about Virtual Tape or people not really hearing a difference or being unsure and not wanting to be wrong. The 33 instances are on Mix B.It's not a huge difference, but imo it improves the sound. I think people are just forgetting the amount of effort it takes to do this sort of stuff... If you do listen, take the time to post, comment or at least like... Otherwise its like eating at someones house and not saying thank you ... You don't have to like the food, but always be gracious... cheers Wiz It was actually pretty easy, given that Slate had the session all done. All I had to do was bounce it and post it. I was pleasantly surprised at how the cumulative effect did make a difference. Always happy to try to share music. Thanks for participating. |
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Post by popmann on Nov 29, 2016 17:15:45 GMT -6
As a long time user of VTM, I knew immediately which is which. And prefer A by a long shot.
Using 33 instances and even one on the mixbuss is functionally absurd. OF COURSE that makes a huge difference. Now run that down with everything (VTM) bypassed other than the drums and electric guitars. Vocals will be pretty mic/pre dependent. Bass will be the same. For goodness sake lose the one on the two buss. Anyway--use your ears to figure out which pieces it's adding and which it's taking away from.
The key to successful digital mixing is using analog saturation stuff where it's actually better than "straight functional digital". Not slathering limitations all over everything from minute one. And, mind you--I'm giving you feedback, not chastising you. Experimenting is how you learn. If you love that sound of 80s tape machines all over everything....you go, girl....but, I'm pointing out that IME, again--it's about the channel. If the acoustics sound bitchin' with the Trident....and the snare loves MPX's tube and tape saturation--kick loves the La3a'a tranny....and the electrics love VTM....and the bass loves the RCA....and the piano loves NOTHING....and the B3 and vocal loves NOTHING....then THAT result is potentially better than a REAL (pick only one of those) on everything.
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Post by swurveman on Nov 30, 2016 8:28:31 GMT -6
As a long time user of VTM, I knew immediately which is which. And prefer A by a long shot. Using 33 instances and even one on the mixbuss is functionally absurd. OF COURSE that makes a huge difference. Now run that down with everything (VTM) bypassed other than the drums and electric guitars. Vocals will be pretty mic/pre dependent. Bass will be the same. For goodness sake lose the one on the two buss. Anyway--use your ears to figure out which pieces it's adding and which it's taking away from. The key to successful digital mixing is using analog saturation stuff where it's actually better than "straight functional digital". Not slathering limitations all over everything from minute one. And, mind you--I'm giving you feedback, not chastising you. Experimenting is how you learn. If you love that sound of 80s tape machines all over everything....you go, girl....but, I'm pointing out that IME, again--it's about the channel. If the acoustics sound bitchin' with the Trident....and the snare loves MPX's tube and tape saturation--kick loves the La3a'a tranny....and the electrics love VTM....and the bass loves the RCA....and the piano loves NOTHING....and the B3 and vocal loves NOTHING....then THAT result is potentially better than a REAL (pick only one of those) on everything. What about Mix A did you like better? |
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Post by popmann on Nov 30, 2016 15:26:53 GMT -6
It didn't have that wooly "snot in the throat" sound that 80s tape machines (and VTM) have. We used to do all kinds of over compensation with EQ going and coming from tape to minimize that. MixA sounded more processed.
Think of that tone like brightness....if everything is bright, nothing is bright because our ears or volume/tone knob will be adjusted. I own a love VTM, but only because it accurately brings back THAT sound of my youth--only now I can ONLY apply it where it's positive. Which is why I suggested you put it on some sub groups or elements where it IS a winner. If you have a Jazz bass DI'd tape is a godsend. A P or Stingray? it's a detriment, because they already have the throaty thing.
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