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Post by mrholmes on Nov 28, 2016 12:30:56 GMT -6
Her is the issue.
If I get files or even just with sample drums all the kick drum are so big that I have hart time to mix them short and dry.
Most of the time I end up using a trigger sample and I mix the real kick under that.
It fast, its easy and the kick makes a dry impression.
Now I have rock blues ballad and all my AB files of my favorite songs from the 80s have more dry kick drum...
Is that just me or have they done it already in the 80s?
And if they have done it how was the sample triggered?
I have to ask because I was just 5 back in the days....
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Post by svart on Nov 28, 2016 15:26:36 GMT -6
In the 80's they were more fond of dry drum sounds, and typically padded the kick to little more than a POOF sound.
You might try multing the kick to two tracks, then EQing each track into a high or low kick track then compress and gate each separately. That way you can tailor the sound for the mix by changing levels. You'd be surprised how different kick drums sound, in good mixes, when solo'd.
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Post by schmalzy on Nov 28, 2016 15:33:35 GMT -6
I wasn't going to suggest splitting the tracks but gating is my go-to for this sort of thing, as well.
That said, I definitely think splitting into frequency ranges then gating is a great idea. You can retain the roominess in the attack and tighten up the low end (or vice versa) by splitting it out like that. Good suggestion, Svart!
You could also try to tackle this problem with a transient designer. To piggyback off of Svart's idea, there are a few different multiband transient designers that could really help sort this thing out. Melda has one. JST has one. Waves has one. You could demo those and see if they do anything for you! Reduce the sustain significantly in the regions you want to tighten up and it might give you exactly what you want.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 28, 2016 17:53:06 GMT -6
There was a lot of sampling going on back then too. I've heard standard methods resembling:
pay drum tech to get killer sound out of each drum
record 5 individual hits of each drum ("because those are the good sounding hits, man")
put those in samplers with the samples rotating
let band record songs, with triggers and mics on the drums
replace or parallel all drums with those original 5 hits
Labor intensive pursuit form the days of budgets!
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Post by Ward on Nov 29, 2016 7:33:18 GMT -6
Things were WAY more complicated than what any of the given answers indicated and most times, like everyone else I knew or worked with, I just worked on getting a great drum sound from the drums present, making lots of notes, replacing drums as needed with individual pieces until everything sounded as great as possible.
Still doing it that way today. Drum samples, re-amping and auto-tuning are all fake ways of doing great work. Necessary perhaps, but not exactly authentic. IMHO.
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Post by jjinvegas on Nov 29, 2016 12:25:58 GMT -6
Personally, I thought the eighties were really annoying in terms of kick drums. Brighter and thinner until the snare had more bottom, and for certain genres this is still the predominant mode. When even German microphone companies ditch your second favorite in-the-kick mic for a clicky-sounding ostrich egg, well it really made me mad when my D12E decided to get stretched and finally failed. They still make my favorite, but as studio rates have gone into a deep sleep it is hard to justify having an RE-20 on hand, as it is not that useful anywhere else. But it has the dry thunk I associate with my favorite drum recordings. Surprisingly, well, sort of, if you work enough swap meets and off-beat stores you are eventually going to come across an RE-15, or 16, or even 10. For peanuts, and it does a very nice job of that same thunk. Put some kind of LDC in front for some air, where my U-47 FET used to be parked as it was not very highly regarded back when. Lots of people don't seem to consider tempo when they are making microphone choices down there, and placement. HPF fixes some of the issues, but also strips all the visceral punch.
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Post by joseph on Nov 29, 2016 13:20:29 GMT -6
I'm really not a fan of this trend toward ultra fat kick drums.
It works on some slower tempo songs but generally gets in the way with any driving beat.
Plus you lose the sense of space around drum, the 2nd harmonic and its phase with room mics, and overall kit cohesion.
I used to experiment with inside/outside/batter etc, but 9 times out of 10 for me, a Beyer M88 by itself in the right spot with a little eq will give me the sound I want.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 29, 2016 14:35:05 GMT -6
Cut some tracks recently with EV 666, it automatically does that thinner thing, no real bottom octave but very clear and full sounding. Kinda thinner RE-20 thing, maybe better in some ways.
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Post by jjinvegas on Nov 29, 2016 17:39:05 GMT -6
Cut some tracks recently with EV 666, it automatically does that thinner thing, no real bottom octave but very clear and full sounding. Kinda thinner RE-20 thing, maybe better in some ways. Although not the first Variable D the 666 is really the first of that design to really popularize the concept. I used to see them basically being thrown away, they were sort of clunky and had their own connector that didn't match anything else, and it seemed that every school and Elks lodge and armory had one laying around. Wish I would have grabbed every single one. Replaced with the RE 15, Frank Sinatra's favored live mic, one of which sits permanently mounted in my converted floor tom/kick drum.... |
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Post by Guitar on Nov 29, 2016 17:51:40 GMT -6
I use a DIY subkick for the beef. Sometimes, it's too much beef. Must be added in small doses to the main drum sound.
I also like the M88TG for general kick sounds.
I was having trouble getting my kick to sit in the last recording I did, I used the UAD Little Labs Vog to get the low frequency that I wanted, and compressed with the NI VC 160 which is my favorite in the box DBX 160 emulation.
Not sure if that helps just some things I'm working with.
I also use an old EV 660 for kick beater sounds sometimes, which fits the cheap, not RE20 description. I did sell my PL20 after a while of it sitting around.
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 29, 2016 18:03:51 GMT -6
If they record a long, sustaining kick sound then I'd assume that's what they want?
The issue is that people often want a bit of room around the kick, and sustain can certainly improve that perception. I'd usually go for something along what schmalzy says - try and emphasize the midrange of the kick in the room mics and then use a more scooped sound up close. You still get the sense of transient and the low end of the kick but you know also have a room impression that's less likely to cause masking issues.
If the sustain of the kick on the close mic is way too much I'd usually opt for a transient designer over a gate. Just bring up the attack and the drum will seem to decay faster.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 29, 2016 18:07:36 GMT -6
Although not the first Variable D the 666 is really the first of that design to really popularize the concept. I used to see them basically being thrown away, they were sort of clunky and had their own connector that didn't match anything else, and it seemed that every school and Elks lodge and armory had one laying around. Wish I would have grabbed every single one. Replaced with the RE 15, Frank Sinatra's favored live mic, one of which sits permanently mounted in my converted floor tom/kick drum.... The 666 doesn't really sound like the RE-20, nor like the RE-15/16. It's kinda unique in tone. Yes, gotta have that UA connector with it. 666 on kick and a second on bass amp is an easy mix. |
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