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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 23, 2016 3:39:58 GMT -6
Having a great preamp built in like that and "tuned" to the microphone makes the price tag MUCH more reasonable... I think of it as half the price since you are getting that great preamp too... Very cool! The problem is that it's a preamp that you can't plug another mic into. |
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Post by M57 on Nov 23, 2016 5:08:13 GMT -6
So what are the advantages of putting the pre-amp in the microphone? Are there any disadvantages? It's not inherently disadvantageous to the Redd47 to not be able to plug another mic into it, but then it could be if you want a different pre-amp flavor and can't bypass the pre-amp???
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Post by spock on Nov 23, 2016 10:10:38 GMT -6
So what are the advantages of putting the pre-amp in the microphone? Are there any disadvantages? It's not inherently disadvantageous to the Redd47 to not be able to plug another mic into it, but then it could be if you want a different pre-amp flavor and can't bypass the pre-amp??? - Less gear in the path - plug directly into your converter from the mic
- Having the close proximity of the mic to the preamp and driving the line from there
- You can turn down the preamp gain and plug into your favorite external preamp, it's basically like any other tube mic at the point, only with the REDD.47 as the mic's internal amplifier
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Post by EmRR on Nov 23, 2016 12:05:25 GMT -6
So what are the advantages of putting the pre-amp in the microphone? Are there any disadvantages? It's not inherently disadvantageous to the Redd47 to not be able to plug another mic into it, but then it could be if you want a different pre-amp flavor and can't bypass the pre-amp??? Every condenser mic HAS a preamp section. Most to none have a gain control built into the picture. Some are designed with no gain at all, just buffering, and some have gain. In the old old days the introduction of the dedicated mic preamp came about as condensers went out of style and ribbons took over; you needed a preamp to equal the output level of the previously used condensers. So there's not a dedicated front end buffer/preamp with the mic, which then feeds a REDD.47? Which would mean it's a REDD.47 circuit adapted to act as a hi-Z input pre mated directly to a capsule, and just a single transformer, that being the output? Or said another way, it's a capsule mated to a modified REDD.47 circuit? |
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Post by roundbadge on Nov 23, 2016 16:16:30 GMT -6
So what are the advantages of putting the pre-amp in the microphone? Are there any disadvantages? It's not inherently disadvantageous to the Redd47 to not be able to plug another mic into it, but then it could be if you want a different pre-amp flavor and can't bypass the pre-amp??? Every condenser mic HAS a preamp section. Most to none have a gain control built into the picture. Some are designed with no gain at all, just buffering, and some have gain. In the old old days the introduction of the dedicated mic preamp came about as condensers went out of style and ribbons took over; you needed a preamp to equal the output level of the previously used condensers. So there's not a dedicated front end buffer/preamp with the mic, which then feeds a REDD.47? Which would mean it's a REDD.47 circuit adapted to act as a hi-Z input pre mated directly to a capsule, and just a single transformer, that being the output? Or said another way, it's a capsule mated to a modified REDD.47 circuit? I think that's the idea.straight forward, capsule to Redd amp. |
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Post by Ward on Nov 24, 2016 16:50:24 GMT -6
I've been trying to get my head around this for a few days now... and wondering if it's genius or lunacy. Then again, I wonder about myself quite often too. This is revolutionary, to say the least... it challenges so many conventions! Well done spock and Wade. I remain flabbergasted by your ingenuity and courage. |
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Post by Guitar on Nov 27, 2016 9:30:20 GMT -6
So what are the advantages of putting the pre-amp in the microphone? Are there any disadvantages? It's not inherently disadvantageous to the Redd47 to not be able to plug another mic into it, but then it could be if you want a different pre-amp flavor and can't bypass the pre-amp??? Every condenser mic HAS a preamp section. Most to none have a gain control built into the picture. Some are designed with no gain at all, just buffering, and some have gain. In the old old days the introduction of the dedicated mic preamp came about as condensers went out of style and ribbons took over; you needed a preamp to equal the output level of the previously used condensers. So there's not a dedicated front end buffer/preamp with the mic, which then feeds a REDD.47? Which would mean it's a REDD.47 circuit adapted to act as a hi-Z input pre mated directly to a capsule, and just a single transformer, that being the output? Or said another way, it's a capsule mated to a modified REDD.47 circuit? I would definitely like to hear some more technical details about the specifics of this microphone/preamp design, what's going on inside. Just out of curiosity. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 1, 2016 21:09:06 GMT -6
You know, spock, I'd be more than happy to do a bunch of sound files for you while a unit stays for a 2 month residency... |
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Post by ericn on Dec 1, 2016 21:46:58 GMT -6
You know, spock, I'd be more than happy to do a bunch of sound files for you while a unit stays for a 2 month residency... I'll pick it up at the factory and deliver it to JK, it might take a week, no charge !😎 |
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 1, 2016 22:33:55 GMT -6
Having a great preamp built in like that and "tuned" to the microphone makes the price tag MUCH more reasonable... I think of it as half the price since you are getting that great preamp too... Very cool! Erm.... NOPE! Doesn't make the price "more reasonable" by one tiny bit. Problem is that you can't use that "great mic pre" with any other mic. Kinda seriously limits it usefulness and value in my book. When I put money into a mic pre I want to be able to use it with any source I want, not have it tied inextricably to one single mic. Hype, hype hype. There are many other mics that can put out a line level signal. I'm not doubting it's a very good mic - but when you have a quality product you shouldn't feel the need for stupid hype in order to sell it. |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 1, 2016 23:19:08 GMT -6
you can't use that "great mic pre" with any other mic. Kinda seriously limits it usefulness and value in my book. When I put money into a mic pre I want to be able to use it with any source I want, not have it tied inextricably to one single mic. There are many other mics that can put out a line level signal. I'm not doubting it's a very good mic - but when you have a quality product you shouldn't feel the need for stupid hype in order to sell it. By all evidence this would be akin to screwing the capsule off a KM84 and calling the remaining body a 'mic pre'. Well, it is, but that's not what people think when they hear that. It couldn't be used with another mic anyway, it's an essential incorporated element beyond the mere physical assemblage, which means it's not really a REDD.47, but is based on the REDD.47. You could maybe mate a different capsule to it, but not another mic. You plug that 'mic pre' into another 'mic pre', same as with almost any condenser. You can break that down into two categories: The condensers that put out line level with loud signals, like many modern Neumann TLM mics. The really need a phantom supply only, or maybe also a line amp. Hardy M-1/2's are great for this, since their minimum gain is something like 6dB, they have high input headroom (+12) and they load the majority of mics correctly, unlike an actual line amp which may do the basic job but require a load resistance on the input to make the mic happy. This category of mics are tough to use with any vintage mic preamp, you have to pad their outputs heavily to avoid overload, reducing S/N greatly. The condensers that use their 'mic pre' as an impedance buffer with little or no gain, which require a traditional 'mic pre' to raise levels. This mic has the gain control (is it unique?), and can work stand-alone or with another mic pre. The option to use another mic pre is probably about 2 things: times when the built in max gain isn't enough, and to satisfy those who want to daisy chain a bunch of stuff just because they want to, like Asian Hi-Fi guys daisy chaining 6 rare vintage Western Electric preamps in their system with 40 dB pads between each one so they can say they 'used it all'. The last example proves foolish people have and spend money too, and you better cater to them to collect from all slices of the pie. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 2, 2016 8:48:17 GMT -6
No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. I - for one - think it's offering a product that isn't available in the marketplace right now. It's also my understanding that the "pre" uses the tube section of the mic? I haven't read it all...Anyway, the proof is in the pudding and I've heard it - It really sounds amazing. If you're in the market for a sub $5000 mic, this should definitely be one on your list.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 2, 2016 9:13:14 GMT -6
I agree! The harping is all about the hyper-hype non-informational language.
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Post by ericn on Dec 2, 2016 9:20:13 GMT -6
Yeah it's cool to see a new product that isn't just another me to clone, want to try it just cause it's different !
Hats off to Wade, Adam and the only reason I can think of worth not driving straight through IA for thinking different!
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 2, 2016 9:28:04 GMT -6
I agree! The harping is all about the hyper-hype non-informational language. Yeah, I get it...marketing is a funny thing. You don't hype enough and people don't pay attention...Hype too much and you're Slate lol. Hey - if you don't say it about yourself, who else is gonna say it? Toot that horn...Perception is often reality. |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 2, 2016 9:42:15 GMT -6
I think they could tell a much more interesting story with the facts. As-is they are advertising a mic pre people aren't getting, which leads to complaints about the inability to use it elsewhere. It's not a thing to advertise as a 2-in-1 combo because of that misled complaint.
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Post by ericn on Dec 2, 2016 9:55:01 GMT -6
I think they could tell a much more interesting story with the facts. As-is they are advertising a mic pre people aren't getting, which leads to complaints about the inability to use it elsewhere. It's not a thing to advertise as a 2-in-1 combo because of that misled complaint. The problem quite often with a product like this is that people pigeon hole a product like this and don't see the advantages. This is the problem with internet shopping versus dealing with a dealer, a good dealer can show you what a product like this can do, let you play and see for yourself what this can do. A couple of good reviews and this will suddenly become a fashionable mic. Adam is good at what they pay him to do & Chandleraholics are a very loyal group! |
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 2, 2016 13:13:39 GMT -6
you can't use that "great mic pre" with any other mic. Kinda seriously limits it usefulness and value in my book. When I put money into a mic pre I want to be able to use it with any source I want, not have it tied inextricably to one single mic. There are many other mics that can put out a line level signal. I'm not doubting it's a very good mic - but when you have a quality product you shouldn't feel the need for stupid hype in order to sell it. By all evidence this would be akin to screwing the capsule off a KM84 and calling the remaining body a 'mic pre'. Well, it is, but that's not what people think when they hear that. It couldn't be used with another mic anyway, it's an essential incorporated element beyond the mere physical assemblage, which means it's not really a REDD.47, but is based on the REDD.47. You could maybe mate a different capsule to it, but not another mic. You plug that 'mic pre' into another 'mic pre', same as with almost any condenser. You can break that down into two categories: The condensers that put out line level with loud signals, like many modern Neumann TLM mics. The really need a phantom supply only, or maybe also a line amp. Hardy M-1/2's are great for this, since their minimum gain is something like 6dB, they have high input headroom (+12) and they load the majority of mics correctly, unlike an actual line amp which may do the basic job but require a load resistance on the input to make the mic happy. This category of mics are tough to use with any vintage mic preamp, you have to pad their outputs heavily to avoid overload, reducing S/N greatly. The condensers that use their 'mic pre' as an impedance buffer with little or no gain, which require a traditional 'mic pre' to raise levels. This mic has the gain control (is it unique?), and can work stand-alone or with another mic pre. The option to use another mic pre is probably about 2 things: times when the built in max gain isn't enough, and to satisfy those who want to daisy chain a bunch of stuff just because they want to, like Asian Hi-Fi guys daisy chaining 6 rare vintage Western Electric preamps in their system with 40 dB pads between each one so they can say they 'used it all'. The last example proves foolish people have and spend money too, and you better cater to them to collect from all slices of the pie. Exactly. So unless you're the kind of person who has only one microphone, claiming that it's like getting both a mic and a preamp is rather disingenuous, to say the least. If I'm paying a premium to get a device based on a famous classic mic pre I'm gonna want to be able to use it with the various mics in my cabinet. |
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 2, 2016 13:17:48 GMT -6
I think they could tell a much more interesting story with the facts. As-is they are advertising a mic pre people aren't getting, which leads to complaints about the inability to use it elsewhere. It's not a thing to advertise as a 2-in-1 combo because of that misled complaint. Yes. When you have a great product you shouldn't feel the need to indulge in misaleading hype. |
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Post by spock on Dec 2, 2016 15:41:15 GMT -6
Having a great preamp built in like that and "tuned" to the microphone makes the price tag MUCH more reasonable... I think of it as half the price since you are getting that great preamp too... Very cool! Erm.... NOPE! Doesn't make the price "more reasonable" by one tiny bit. Problem is that you can't use that "great mic pre" with any other mic. Kinda seriously limits it usefulness and value in my book. When I put money into a mic pre I want to be able to use it with any source I want, not have it tied inextricably to one single mic. If it wasn't entirely made clear, this is not a microphone meant to plug other microphones into... and for that I'm sorry. It is however, a microphone with a built in preamplifier in one unit, allowing you to plug directly into your converter/daw set or a tape machine. If you want to use the microphone with an external preamp of your choice, for more tonal possibilities...simply turn down the mic's onboard amplifier. If you are looking for the REDD.47 sound to use with other microphones, we do manufacture the stand-alone REDD.47 Mic Amplifier rack mount unit. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 2, 2016 19:10:21 GMT -6
Not sure why it upsets you so much, johneppstein...Similar offerings like the Bock 251 are actually around $1000 more...AND don't have the option of using built in amplification. |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 3, 2016 7:12:04 GMT -6
Not sure why it upsets you so much, johneppstein...Similar offerings like the Bock 251 are actually around $1000 more...AND don't have the option of using built in amplification. Hey bud hope you and yours had a great thanksgiving. Since you have sang into this mic how does it compare to your 251? I read earlier you saying it was not based off any particular vintage mic, do you feel after singing into this mic you want to purchase? Did you get the same feeling singing into this Chandler mic as you did when you first sang into the Upton 251? Do you have sound clips of you singing on this new mic? If not when can we hear you in it, I think your Vox would be great audio examples for Chandler to use  |
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Post by joseph on Dec 3, 2016 8:40:20 GMT -6
Not sure why it upsets you so much, johneppstein ...Similar offerings like the Bock 251 are actually around $1000 more...AND don't have the option of using built in amplification. For me all I would care to know is the source of the capsule, to have confidence in purchase. Bock uses a custom made Haun CK12 type and parts of the highest quality. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 3, 2016 9:04:10 GMT -6
I sang in it over at Randy's place...and didn't have the Upton. I thought it actually sounded like a classic 251. Very rich, velvety midrange and beautiful top. I didn't have the two side by side to compare...but I know I freaking love the Upton and wouldn't have a second thought about adopting this one.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 3, 2016 14:45:58 GMT -6
Not sure why it upsets you so much, johneppstein ...Similar offerings like the Bock 251 are actually around $1000 more...AND don't have the option of using built in amplification. It doesn't really upset me, and the price isn't a factor. It's that I have a thing about misleading advertising hype, especially (as in this case) when it's so unnecessary. And this isn't the first condenser mic that's capable of driving a line level load (although it's the first I've ever heard of with an onboard gain control, which seems to me to be a brilliant idea.) There's too much hype in the world and I would expect people of this calibre with a product of this quality to know better. |
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