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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 18, 2016 12:55:28 GMT -6
Hey All, Here's the deal. I mixed this tune and wanted to have some fun with 2-buss compression. I recently got a Stam Audio SA-4000 and wanted to do some comparisons with my RJR SSL Style Compressor. Since I had the tune up and everything ready to go, I figured that I might as well run it through some other stuff too. Here's the process... Also, I'm aware that I'm going to hear a bunch of whining about how this isn't scientific, or there are too many files, or the mix sucks, or the comparison is flawed, etc. If you don't like how I did it, sorry, it is what it is. Doing my best to post something useful to people. Using Pro Tools, I sent my captured mix (without anything on the 2-buss) out through my Svartbox DA and back in through the Svartbox AD. I captured that. That is the uncompressed file and what I used for all of the plugins (so they would experience the same DA/AD loop, to take that out of the equation). Using the same DA/AD loop, I inserted each piece of hardware and tried my best to set the settings accordingly. The basic settings were 4:1 Ratio 10ms Attack .3s (300ms) Release Stereo Linking On (except on the Aphex and Alta Moda) No Sidechain Filters ~4dB Gain Reduction From here, I inserted a 1-band eq with the phase flipped on each track, and set the output level as close to canceling as I could (by ear) to try to get close to level matched. Feel free to import to your DAW and level match however you would like if you're interested in getting it closer. Once I had all the files ready to go, I ran an offline bounce of each track so the hardware and plugs would all experience the same bounce process. Here is the alphabetical listing of the compressors used for the comparison. Plugins are in red. Alta Moda AM-10 Aphex Expressor 651 Brainworx Vertigo VSC-2
Brainworx Elysia MpressorBSS DPR-402 Cytomic The Glue
FabFilter Pro-CRJR Sick Sick Sick Slate FG-GreyStam SA-4000 Thermionic Culture The Phoenix Mastering Compressor Tonelux TX5C Waves API 2500The files are blind. If you don't like blind stuff, wait a week or so and I'll post the key. Here is the link to the files. Both .wav and .mp3 files are available. drive.google.com/open?id=0Bym1m85ha75RRGZFTGtuMVNIWG8Have fun!
P.S. Results are further down on this page. If you don't want it spoiled, don't read on! |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 18, 2016 20:15:06 GMT -6
Wav files aren't working for me to just listen with out DL, so my guesses will be based off the mp3s... listening now thanks man this is awesome  |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 18, 2016 20:17:42 GMT -6
Wav files aren't working for me to just listen with out DL, so my guesses will be based off the mp3s... listening now thanks man this is awesome The wav files don't like to playback from Google Drive in the browser. They should be available to download too if you're interested. |
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Post by wiz on Oct 18, 2016 22:01:02 GMT -6
There is a lot to digest.. .my first reaction..
I like B
hope B is the SA4000
8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by M57 on Oct 19, 2016 4:27:48 GMT -6
I downloaded the wav files and popped them in my DAW and listened last night. I left my list at home, I did like B as well, but I seem to remember liking some of the later ones... (G,I,J,M??). I found a number of them had a noticeable effect on the width of the image. How much compression did you use? I ask because though I had a little trouble level matching the uncompressed file, I have to admit I kind of liked things uncompressed for this genre. Less color, mojo, glue, whatever.. but more open and dynamic.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 19, 2016 4:34:42 GMT -6
I used about about 4dB, 5dB on the biggest peaks, according the the meters. I purposely used more than I normally would to have the compression more obvious for the comparison. The last time I did a shootout like this I only pulled down 2dB or something and got a bunch of complaints that I didn't do enough.
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Post by M57 on Oct 19, 2016 4:41:17 GMT -6
I used about about 4dB, 5dB on the biggest peaks, according the the meters. I purposely used more than I normally would to have the compression more obvious for the comparison. The last time I did a shootout like this I only pulled down 2dB or something and got a bunch of complaints that I didn't do enough. Hah, You just can't win for losing..  I didn't spend a lot of time listening, and it's obvious my ears are not that good because I found the differences to be incredibly subtle. In some cases, I'm not sure I even heard a difference. I'll probably go back in tonight with notes in hand and give it another shot. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 19, 2016 4:50:31 GMT -6
I used about about 4dB, 5dB on the biggest peaks, according the the meters. I purposely used more than I normally would to have the compression more obvious for the comparison. The last time I did a shootout like this I only pulled down 2dB or something and got a bunch of complaints that I didn't do enough. Hah, You just can't win for losing..  I didn't spend a lot of time listening, and it's obvious my ears are not that good because I found the differences to be incredibly subtle.  In some cases, I'm not sure I even heard a difference. I'll probably go back in tonight with notes in hand and give it another shot. I agree that it's subtle. You would think the difference between a $7000 tube compressor, an $800 pair of FET compressors, and a $50 plugin VCA compressor would be greater. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 19, 2016 4:56:34 GMT -6
I thought about breaking the compressors into categories to shrink the group and have them compartmentalized, but because the tones were so similar, I was curious if anyone would obviously pick the tube, vs fet, vs vca.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 6:56:10 GMT -6
I like these comparisons - it's really teaching me to listen constructively (I think). Through my cheapie headphones i check bass with accompanied by my amateur earholes .... I made these notes, a just flat b still generally mushy c flat / horrid d Opened up low end but higher up squished e interesting distortion low end, top end nothing special f mids really squashed sounds flat g horrid h Mushy generally i opening up here - nice low end - not bad j seems to lose lower end k mushy l squash! m nicely balanced clear and dynamic. For me, through these phones, M is the easy winner (although it may be a tad louder?). Please tell me M is not a plug -in  |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 19, 2016 7:21:30 GMT -6
I like these comparisons - it's really teaching me to listen constructively (I think). Through my cheapie headphones i check bass with accompanied by my amateur earholes .... I made these notes, a just flat b still generally mushy c flat / horrid d Opened up low end but higher up squished e interesting distortion low end, top end nothing special f mids really squashed sounds flat g horrid h Mushy generally i opening up here - nice low end - not bad j seems to lose lower end k mushy l squash! m nicely balanced clear and dynamic. For me, through these phones, M is the easy winner (although it may be a tad louder?). Please tell me M is not a plug -in So your preference is M then I. Based on the feedback though, it's probably more that you don't like my mix than you disliking pretty much EVERY compressor. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 7:35:55 GMT -6
lol I am an amateur - I haven't got much of a clue.... but a lot of the examples just seem to suck more life out of the mix except the couple I chose - especially M which seemed to open it all up in a nice way - but listening to the original mix - it already sounded compressed ?? my milage probably varies and has taken a wrong turn btw I did listen using the MP3's not WAV's - maybe that has some bearing? |
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Post by wiz on Oct 19, 2016 14:55:19 GMT -6
I listened again first thing whilst having my morning cup of tea..
B is still my favourite.. I do like M though as well... it as cool.. followed by K
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 5:08:54 GMT -6
Not many people throwing their hats in the ring here - I now wondering if it is really harder to tell the difference between plug ins and hardware than some people will have us believe. Years ago you wouldn't consider anything other than valves for anything audio Now some of the highest rated outboard gear is valve free, and the digital domain is the "sterile" world. Question is - is it really true? BTW I've got a foot in both camps - you can't lick a plug-in or smell lovely hot solder when using them ..... |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 20, 2016 8:11:50 GMT -6
I have my notes i took last night during a break of mixing Wiz song... I am going to post the notes a little later this evening as I only got to G and at that point I was tired and worn out.... I defintely was enjoying myself thanks |
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Post by wiz on Oct 20, 2016 14:55:35 GMT -6
I just wanted to say that I really appreciate the work done here....
Its a HUGE amount of time put in....
sooooo..... If you have downloaded and listened, or even just appreciate the effort that has been put into this.. a little reply goes a long way 8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 22, 2016 0:47:15 GMT -6
Ok I want to provide feedback because the OP did a lot of work to provide this for our education.... A: guitars stick out but in a highlight type of way not intrusive. Horns seem more compressed and more centered. Vox subdued during chorus... compression bringin up the brighter elements ... good snare sound compressed but not smashed B: Horns present on the sides but louder than I would like. guitars bright and present, have a sense of width or panning enhanced, the side sounds like it not being as compressed as the mid... sibilance in vox kind of brought up... snare not smashed... more balanced than A less bright C: stood out to me but I think it's louder than the others. Loud, sax in the middle instead of sides, pushing volume which made the guitars gel with the drums more but the snare sounds squished. pokey vox D: gtr and vox pushed back in mix the sides brought up again.. vox gets lost going into the chorus, organ is buried more compression on the mid than sides again. Snare and drum fills plus bass is solid, probably the highlight on this one E: guitars subdued in the sides, like the gtr compression the best here, Vox are subdued again, maybe the horns being brought up in the center channel is drowning out chorus vocals, heard the male backup in the chorus present, wah gtr more present than others, snare sounds not as punchy as others, bass is nice in its place, chorus seem little more mid forward F: good seperation of elements, vox are more stand out here,, snare is crushed... but the snare ambience is more present than others... weird.... sax is present in center taking away from vox during build ups, the comp is eating drums and vox and letting horn, sax, and wah gtr come thru, bass is leveled but poking out during parts of verse G: sax more subdued, I like that, good balance, guitars are blended well into the sides and the vox are not buried at all, drum fills aren't squashed... I'm liking this one so far ... horns are compressed on the sides more which is good letting vox thru, bass is nice and present and balanced H: vox are legible throughout, snare is a little too compressed during chorus, ambience is not too much like the other take F... balanced horns, however during the Verse, the vox and drums are leading a little too much where the gtr, organ are lost, sibilance is edgy at times but not harsh like in another take I: sibilance on the vox, snare sounds good during fills and verses, wah gtr most present so far in the right side of mix. But kinda disappears during chorus with the Vox. I can hear the gate on the cymbals/ hats , bass firm holding the bottom down nice, most present so far, horns are bright, vox reverb brought up in this take. J: noise in intro seemed the loudest here... horns bright and overbearing in chorus, drums solid center, driving groove, toms sticking out the best here, like the snare compression. Vox are present and not buried, seems like this Comp is compressing the sides a bit more and I like it, horns are subdued but present, organ, wah all present with good balance... I like this take All I got for now will finish tomorrow and make a new post with the remaining takes and also pick the ones I like with guesses as to which compressor the takes are! Thanks again jcoutu1 Edit: fixed spelling |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 23, 2016 13:02:31 GMT -6
K: sounds pretty balanced during chorus and loudest parts snare slightly subdued. The time based fx are morenoresent so this comp is bringing up lower level details! 1/8 or slap delay more present leaning towards the right side sounds good gives space needed for LD vox. Rhythm the gets overpowered in louder parts like chorus... pretty balanced overall, everything pretty cohesive. L: snare more pushed back, cymbals and ride gets buried at loud parts. The doubled LD vox are more present in last chorus... time based fx seem to bloom a bit at certain times like the drum ambience during the fill pod out sounds interesting. The LD vox sound more flat and not as in your face as other passes/ prints..snare ghost notes are most present at times and not lost. Sibilance a little pokey during verse like on "hypnotize", "size", "shrink" to name a few M: def louder than other takes... snare/ drum verb most present... could be the loudness... wah gtr is most present in this take. Feeling/ hearing more side compression, lower level fx are brought up which is good giving vox space, male BF most present for me in this take, snare crushed when the loudnoartscomes in like the breakdown into chorus, but the drum fills without all the elements being present is punchy... def louder than other takes I have to go back through my notes and label each take as to which compressor is which so I will save that for my next post... Again, I thought more people would take advantage of this opportunity, I mean there is no right or wrong answer, no one is going to cut off your left testy if you choose B over C thanks again jcoutu1 |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 14:07:13 GMT -6
" cut off your left testy " phew thank f**k for that. Kind Regards, Oddball. P.S.thought M was a bit louder - still liked it bestest. Spill the beans man, what was "M" |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 31, 2016 20:14:53 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 31, 2016 21:27:15 GMT -6
Will listen tomorrow, looking forward to it. Thanks for putting this together Jesse. I'm hoping whichever one I like is the STAM, because I plan on getting one.
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Post by ragan on Oct 31, 2016 23:12:20 GMT -6
I'll definitely be listening and posting when I get a minute. Thanks, Jesse.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 1, 2016 8:21:23 GMT -6
Here are the results...
A Tonelux TX5C Hardware
B RJR Sick Sick Sick Hardware
C BSS DPR-402 Hardware
D Aphex Expressor 651 Hardware
E Stam SA-4000 Hardware
F Alta Moda AM-10 Hardware
G Thermionic Culture The Phoenix Mastering Compressor Hardware
H Cytomic The Glue Software
I Waves API 2500 Software
J Brainworx Vertigo VSC-2 Software
K Slate FG-Grey Software
L FabFilter Pro-C Software
M Brainworx Elysia Mpressor Software
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 1, 2016 9:13:41 GMT -6
jcoutu1 thanks for doing this! I saw this weeks ago and thought I would get to it but didn't...I'm gonna go back and listen and I'll post which I like the best...I know there's a key, but hell, my memory's not good enough to remember which is which...
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I didn't spend a lot of time listening, and it's obvious my ears are not that good because I found the differences to be incredibly subtle. In some cases, I'm not sure I even heard a difference. I'll probably go back in tonight with notes in hand and give it another shot.
