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Post by rowmat on Oct 12, 2016 17:30:19 GMT -6
Okay just for starters whether or not you were a fan of 'The Carpenters', Karen Carpenters recorded vocal sound was sublime. I believe her main mic was a Neumann U87 but I don't know if it was modified or what her usual preamp/EQ/compressor chain was.
There is no doubt much of the quality of the sound could be attributed to her supreme vocal control and understanding of how to interact with a microphone to elicit the best possible recorded sound with none of the common sibilance or plosive issues that often require correction in post which compromise the end product.
What about some other great vocal recordings?
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Post by Randge on Oct 12, 2016 19:35:50 GMT -6
Merle Haggards Capital recordings are about as good as it gets. The tracks aren't my favorite, but his vocal sound sure is.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 12, 2016 20:05:48 GMT -6
There are voices that are so great a $20 POS mike sounds incredible.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 20:38:18 GMT -6
I lean toward the American Songbook recordings of Ella Fitzgerald. I have no idea what mics were typically used (49 perhaps?) but they worked so well with her enviable diction and obvious musicianship.
A close modern take would be the Brazilian Duo recordings of Luciana Souza. Again, I have no idea of the signal chain, but it really captures every syllable of one of the most nimble singers you're likely to hear. There's no hype at all in the sound, She's simply in the room with you.
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Post by rowmat on Oct 12, 2016 20:42:21 GMT -6
There are voices that are so great a $20 POS mike sounds incredible. Of course no signal chain can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. From time to time in the studio I hear a great voice that make me sit up but the biggest battle I usually encounter with singers who haven't done a lot of recording is poor mic technique and dynamic control. When you encounter a great voice combined with good mic technique it's a bonus.
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Post by donr on Oct 12, 2016 20:51:52 GMT -6
Okay just for starters whether or not you were a fan of 'The Carpenters', Karen Carpenters recorded vocal sound was sublime. I believe her main mic was a Neumann U87 but I don't know if it was modified or what her usual preamp/EQ/compressor chain was. There is no doubt much of the quality of the sound could be attributed to her supreme vocal control and understanding of how to interact with a microphone to elicit the best possible recorded sound with none of the common sibilance or plosive issues that often require correction in post which compromise the end product. What about some other great vocal recordings? I agree. Karen Carpenter's vocals were seductively compelling despite the saccharine overall sound of the Carpenters. I don't think she sang very loud, and had great control over what she presented to the mic. She was also a decent drummer. Her version of Leon Russell's "Superstar" remains my favorite.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 12, 2016 20:57:58 GMT -6
Lyle Lovette's "Road to Ensenada". I wrote to Nathaniel Kunkle, and he kindly responded to my request for info about the recording. He said, "It was Conway Studios Black U-67 -> GML mic pre -> GML eq -> GML 8900 series 3 limiter -> tape in. But you must remember that Lyle plays guitar and sings at the same time, so that leakage is a huge component of the vocal sound. The guitar mic then was a stereo C24 in MS, and that contributed to the sound greatly".
Just about anything Johnny Mathis sang sounded great. I'm partial to Sinatra's sound, and enjoy Chris Isaak's sound too. There's probably a lot of U47's on those recordings, and likely some M49's, but I have no idea of the signal path. The vocal sound on Dierk's Bentley's "Home" is excellent too. Etta James' "At Last" wasn't too shabby either.
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Post by rowmat on Oct 13, 2016 10:50:14 GMT -6
Okay just for starters whether or not you were a fan of 'The Carpenters', Karen Carpenters recorded vocal sound was sublime. I believe her main mic was a Neumann U87 but I don't know if it was modified or what her usual preamp/EQ/compressor chain was. There is no doubt much of the quality of the sound could be attributed to her supreme vocal control and understanding of how to interact with a microphone to elicit the best possible recorded sound with none of the common sibilance or plosive issues that often require correction in post which compromise the end product. What about some other great vocal recordings? I agree. Karen Carpenter's vocals were seductively compelling despite the saccharine overall sound of the Carpenters. I don't think she sang very loud, and had great control over what she presented to the mic. She was also a decent drummer. Her version of Leon Russell's "Superstar" remains my favorite. Yeah she didn't abuse the mic that's for certain.
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Post by rowmat on Oct 13, 2016 11:00:11 GMT -6
Lyle Lovette's "Road to Ensenada". I wrote to Nathaniel Kunkle, and he kindly responded to my request for info about the recording. He said, "It was Conway Studios Black U-67 -> GML mic pre -> GML eq -> GML 8900 series 3 limiter -> tape in. But you must remember that Lyle plays guitar and sings at the same time, so that leakage is a huge component of the vocal sound. The guitar mic then was a stereo C24 in MS, and that contributed to the sound greatly". Just about anything Johnny Mathis sang sounded great. I'm partial to Sinatra's sound, and enjoy Chris Isaak's sound too. There's probably a lot of U47's on those recordings, and likely some M49's, but I have no idea of the signal path. The vocal sound on Dierk's Bentley's "Home" is excellent too. Etta James' "At Last" wasn't too shabby either. I find myself often gravitating towards the mid 1950's to mid 1960's where the combination of some great singers along with the U47/M49 and the pinnacle of tube amplification design seemed to produce many magical vocal recordings. Not forgetting of course the likes of Rudy Van Gelder and others who raised the sonics bar several notches throughout that period.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 13, 2016 12:06:15 GMT -6
Prior to the late '60s a singer had to know how to "work" a mike in order to be heard on stage and they needed to impress financial backers on stage in order to get any opportunity to record.
Shortly after I moved to NashVegas I was invited to attend a demonstration of some new monitor speakers. After playing the usual demo round of Steely Dan and a few top ten albums, they played Sinatra at the Sands and everybody's jaw hit the floor. After a round of speculation about why this album left everything else we'd heard in the dust, I raised my hand. Wally Heider recorded that album in his truck mixing the band to two channels and the uncompressed vocal to two tracks at different levels as a safety. The mike was a Shure 546! The monitors were Altec 604s.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 13, 2016 12:13:48 GMT -6
I should add that U47s weren't used nearly as much as people assume because they were very prone to popping and sibilance which are a disaster for vinyl.
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Post by rowmat on Oct 13, 2016 12:27:49 GMT -6
I should add that U47s weren't used nearly as much as people assume because they were very prone to popping and sibilance which are a disaster for vinyl. I believe when the first Neumann's began appearing in the US there were issues with many of the ribbon era micpre's having too much baseline gain for the higher output condensers. It also seemed the propensity to 'swallow the mic' was less fashionable back then.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 13, 2016 12:35:02 GMT -6
I'm told that at United/Western it was common to plug a 47 straight into a compressor bypassing the console mike pres.
My friend Voyle Gilmore who was VP A&R at Capitol during the '50s-70s told me that virtually every picture you see of one was a publicity photo shoot and not a recording session.
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Post by M57 on Oct 13, 2016 14:09:25 GMT -6
I'm told that at United/Western it was common to plug a 47 straight into a compressor bypassing the console mike pres. My friend Voyle Gilmore who was VP A&R at Capitol during the '50s-70s told me that virtually every picture you see of one was a publicity photo shoot and not a recording session. It's hard to imagine otherwise, what with all the noise an SLR or medium format camera would have made.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 13, 2016 14:49:30 GMT -6
It was about not creating session distractions because of the thousand or more dollars being paid to the musicians.
Musicians got paid back then unlike today's hobbyists.
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Post by donr on Oct 13, 2016 15:27:42 GMT -6
I'm told that at United/Western it was common to plug a 47 straight into a compressor bypassing the console mike pres. My friend Voyle Gilmore who was VP A&R at Capitol during the '50s-70s told me that virtually every picture you see of one was a publicity photo shoot and not a recording session. I once saw a picture of a female vocalist singing into the back of a Shure 55S.
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 13, 2016 18:35:38 GMT -6
Lyle Lovette's "Road to Ensenada". I wrote to Nathaniel Kunkle, and he kindly responded to my request for info about the recording. He said, "It was Conway Studios Black U-67 -> GML mic pre -> GML eq -> GML 8900 series 3 limiter -> tape in. But you must remember that Lyle plays guitar and sings at the same time, so that leakage is a huge component of the vocal sound. The guitar mic then was a stereo C24 in MS, and that contributed to the sound greatly". Just about anything Johnny Mathis sang sounded great. I'm partial to Sinatra's sound, and enjoy Chris Isaak's sound too. There's probably a lot of U47's on those recordings, and likely some M49's, but I have no idea of the signal path. The vocal sound on Dierk's Bentley's "Home" is excellent too. Etta James' "At Last" wasn't too shabby either. I find myself often gravitating towards the mid 1950's to mid 1960's where the combination of some great singers along with the U47/M49 and the pinnacle of tube amplification design seemed to produce many magical vocal recordings. Not forgetting of course the likes of Rudy Van Gelder and others who raised the sonics bar several notches throughout that period. I love the vocal sound on records from the 50s through mid 60s too. But I think some of that is due to the context and relation of voice to band. I've been listening a lot to the early Byrds recordings lately and the vocals sound lush and huge, in part because the band tracking is much smaller and thinner sounding compared to today's records. Don't get me wrong, I love the band sound and don't find it lacking. But the way instrumental tracks are big and punchy these days it's leaves less room for the vocals to dominate and impress.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 13, 2016 18:49:59 GMT -6
I've noticed that too. Listen to a Crosby, Still & Nash album. The drums are barely there, and it's perfect. Today, every product being sold pushes how "punchy" their product makes everything. Well, everything can't be punchy in a mix, or it's all punch and not dynamic. People tune out a constant sound, today's massive volume mastering techniques are part of the reason much music has become wallpaper.
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Post by ragan on Oct 13, 2016 21:00:29 GMT -6
I've noticed that too. Listen to a Crosby, Still & Nash album. The drums are barely there, and it's perfect. Today, every product being sold pushes how "punchy" their product makes everything. Well, everything can't be punchy in a mix, or it's all punch and not dynamic. People tune out a constant sound, today's massive volume mastering techniques are part of the reason much music has become wallpaper. Wish I could 'like' this post a thousand times.
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Post by swurveman on Oct 14, 2016 6:24:53 GMT -6
The Beach Boy vocals from Western Studio 3 done with a U47 through a Putnam UA console into their echo chamber are great imo. Edit: Saw that Bob said they'd go straight into the compressor. Not sure what the compressor was.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 14, 2016 8:48:57 GMT -6
It's a good bet it's an LA2 if Bill Putnam was there.
*thanks Ragan.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 14, 2016 9:01:36 GMT -6
Some of the Dean Martin recordings sound amazing
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 14, 2016 9:02:11 GMT -6
John Kennedy's Upton 251-->CAPI VP28L-->Sta-Level is pretty amazing...
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 14, 2016 10:27:38 GMT -6
I think it was a Fairchild 660 or 670 although logic would suggest one of Putnam's designs. I've never heard anything good about the consoles from my mentor who assisted there or my friend who worked in the shop. I understand they used an Ampex mixer for vocals with the RCA 77s.
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Post by rowmat on Oct 14, 2016 10:30:44 GMT -6
$3 Radio Shack mic > Victoria's Secret IEC power cable > Whatever .... AMAZEBALLS!!!
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