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Post by swurveman on Oct 9, 2016 7:18:45 GMT -6
I often see posts by people who use drum loops and dedicate an Group channel for drum loops. I also know that in the early days of digital recording, on albums like "Jagged Little Pill", drum loops were used extensively throughout entire songs.
So, I'm wondering why people today use drum loops today, with all the VST software available. I can see a drum loop in a section to give the drum sound a different flavor, perhaps a break with an entire different sound, but throughout the entire song? Is it used as a replacement for a click track? Trying to understand the usage....
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Post by Ward on Oct 10, 2016 9:42:12 GMT -6
Drum loops, like a lot of samples, sound quaint, old, died, timely, old timey, tacky, cheesy and even funny at times.
They're great for that kind of application.
(And yes, they work VERY well as a click track for drummers who have difficulty with standard click tracks.)
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Post by swurveman on Oct 10, 2016 17:27:28 GMT -6
Drum loops, like a lot of samples, sound quaint, old, died, timely, old timey, tacky, cheesy and even funny at times. They're great for that kind of application. (And yes, they work VERY well as a click track for drummers who have difficulty with standard click tracks.) The more I read bout it, and specifically about Glenn Ballard and his use of "drum loops" on Jagged Little Pill- which are Akai MPC 2000 MPC samples - the more I think it was just a good marriage of her style with the technology of the time. Here's a song that, according to the session drummer on the album, was mostly the MPC. A lot of that album doesn't sound dated to me, but decades go by quickly for me LOL. I think the samples from the programmed MPC sound great in the context of those songs. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 10, 2016 19:00:54 GMT -6
Drum loops, like a lot of samples, sound quaint, old, died, timely, old timey, tacky, cheesy and even funny at times. They're great for that kind of application. (And yes, they work VERY well as a click track for drummers who have difficulty with standard click tracks.) The more I read bout it, and specifically about Glenn Ballard and his use of "drum loops" on Jagged Little Pill- which are Akai MPC 2000 MPC samples - the more I think it was just a good marriage of her style with the technology of the time. Here's a song that, according to the session drummer on the album, was mostly the MPC. A lot of that album doesn't sound dated to me, but decades go by quickly for me LOL. I think the samples from the programmed MPC sound great in the context of those songs. When I was learning to play the kit, I used to play along with this album all the time, just because the time was so tight. It was like practicing with a metronome without the monotony. |
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Post by swurveman on Oct 10, 2016 19:46:17 GMT -6
The more I read bout it, and specifically about Glenn Ballard and his use of "drum loops" on Jagged Little Pill- which are Akai MPC 2000 MPC samples - the more I think it was just a good marriage of her style with the technology of the time. Here's a song that, according to the session drummer on the album, was mostly the MPC. A lot of that album doesn't sound dated to me, but decades go by quickly for me LOL. I think the samples from the programmed MPC sound great in the context of those songs. When I was learning to play the kit, I used to play along with this album all the time, just because the time was so tight. It was like practicing with a metronome without the monotony. Yeah, I would think any young drummer starting out would/should work with songs like this to learn to keep time. Nevertheless, I get tons of people who refuse to play to a click track or a simple Superior Drummer Kick/Snare/hiHat pattern. One other tidbit: Ballard used a Linn 9000 as his MPC (it grooved better for him) which he used to trigger the Akai MPC2000. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 10, 2016 20:06:17 GMT -6
I piece together drum loops from Superior Drummer for my demos. I only tweak them a little and have no patience to work hard to get a "human feel". They never quite fit though, so every time I've been able to replace the track with a real drummer, it's been a big improvement.
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Post by kilroyrock on Oct 11, 2016 10:38:57 GMT -6
I piece together drum loops from Superior Drummer for my demos. I only tweak them a little and have no patience to work hard to get a "human feel". They never quite fit though, so every time I've been able to replace the track with a real drummer, it's been a big improvement. I do the same with EZ Drummer, but trying to get real good stuff does take time, taking their midi, cutting it in half and appending to other loops. People are amazed that it isn't a real drummer. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 11, 2016 13:32:35 GMT -6
I know you're right, and with care, it can be done well, but I get the shakes after more than 20 minutes if futzing with programming and editing.
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Post by swurveman on Oct 11, 2016 16:46:00 GMT -6
I know you're right, and with care, it can be done well, but I get the shakes after more than 20 minutes if futzing with programming and editing. Have you tried using the pre programmed grooves and then tweaking for only the most important transitions? It won't sound as good as a drummer, but it will have more of a drummer's feel and you'll work less. |
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Post by Guitar on Oct 11, 2016 16:48:50 GMT -6
Looped drums have worked for me a handful of times. Either a drum machine playing patterns, or a pre-recorded sample. If you chop them up and manipulate them in the track it can keep them from getting monotonous, or even sound exciting in the track. More often than not I need a live track of some sort, whether a real trap set with mics, or smashing out beats on an MPD 32 with my fingers.
I think that Alanis track is a great example of what a well executed drum loop rhythm track can sound like. Somewhere in between a real drummer and a metronome, speaking for the emotional vibe that comes across.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 11, 2016 17:37:33 GMT -6
I know you're right, and with care, it can be done well, but I get the shakes after more than 20 minutes if futzing with programming and editing. Have you tried using the pre programmed grooves and then tweaking for only the most important transitions? It won't sound as good as a drummer, but it will have more of a drummer's feel and you'll work less. Sure, but the tone of the room the drums were recorded in rarely fit the rest of my tracks. I've tried some other drum kits, but somehow, they're still not quite right. The thing that bugs me the most is velocity. Despite sometimes adjusting levels beat by beat, it always feels like the drum's being hit too hard in some places. |
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Post by swurveman on Oct 11, 2016 18:39:49 GMT -6
Have you tried using the pre programmed grooves and then tweaking for only the most important transitions? It won't sound as good as a drummer, but it will have more of a drummer's feel and you'll work less. Sure, but the tone of the room the drums were recorded in rarely fit the rest of my tracks. I've tried some other drum kits, but somehow, they're still not quite right. The thing that bugs me the most is velocity. Despite sometimes adjusting levels beat by beat, it always feels like the drum's being hit too hard in some places. I mult out every channel from Superior Drummer or Addictive Drums into my Daw's mixer. Then I create a "Close Drum Group, an "Overhead Group" and an"Ambiance Group" that all output to my "Drum Group". If the snare sounds like it's hitting too hard I EQ at the snare, overhead and ambiance levels to get rid of the "pop" and blend them to get the snare sound I want. Yes, it is a different room than where you recorded your tracks. I've often wondered why Toontrack/Addictive Drums and others don't give impulses of the room so that if you wanted to use the tone of the room you could. Nevertheless, I often send a bit from each of the Groups-or the channels outputting to the Groups- to a Bricasti Room to even things out with the instruments that I'm sending to the Bricasti. |
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