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Post by keymod on Aug 20, 2016 9:24:32 GMT -6
I am considering a Mac Mini for use with virtual instruments, specifically Ivory and BFD3 among others. Is it possible for some connection to allow communication between the Mac Mini and my PC which will be running my DAW?
PC is a tricked-out ADK running Windows 7 pro 64bit.
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Post by chasmanian on Aug 20, 2016 11:12:22 GMT -6
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Post by popmann on Aug 20, 2016 19:06:13 GMT -6
I would ask why? Windows machines are FAR.....FAR more efficient for VIs. If anything, I'd go the other way. A modern MINI that you've got an SSD in can do 96khz audio production without issue....and the latent USB audio interface won't matter because you're not needing to monitor in software....where VIs are by definition monitoring software. So, Windows+RME PCIe will KILL for VIs....and be utterly overkill for audio production. But, a modern tricked out ADK box should be maybe an extra internal SSD away from handling it all inside a single box.
If you simply own the boxes already and want to use them, the best connection will be an ANALOG audio and then MIDI to trigger notes. Analog so you can run the audio sessions in the PC at 88.2/96 and keep the VIs running at their native 44. (or 48khz for some Kontakt isntruments)....you'll be able to open sessions at 44-192 with the audio box and the VIs will work and sound the same on the other box. As soon as you start doing fancy connections like Vienna Ensemble (audio and midi over ethernet) you now must keep the whol thing clocked to a single clock rate and source...thus you're going to either take a HUGE, exponential performance hit on the VI box or you're going to dumb down the audio or as I refer to it "the other 30 tracks" of a production so the VIs run ok.
I've run multiple boxes for decades. Since you HAD to (all the way back to one of those "boxes" being reel to reel analog with SMPTE stripe)....which you really don't now. I maintain a second system (A Kronos+MacBookAir) for "samples other than drums and strings"....so, anything I play live with ten fingers....because I can't stand toggling buffers and changing DSP loads and such to track a piano idea....rather just arm a track with the Kronos audio ins and hit record. But, it's really only an advantage for when you're literally playing digital instruments live to audio. It's mostly a detriment for everything else. I guess an exception being if you're doing symphonic work--something that requires you load a whole orchestra of samples (say 15+min load times)--you DO want that done once a session (on a secondary box) rather than every time you open a different project!! But, for drum programming? You want it integrated into your DAW for sample replacement....relative timing and tempo manipulation....
But, I've tried to do full production just using the Kronos as a controller and NOT using the Windows box--so all iwth the low rent MBAir....there are clunky bits--the VIs are more latent....Addictive Drums seems to spike the CPU a lot for some reason....but, it's all workable. And this is at 88.2, FWIW....and again-it's a low rent "Air"....so, I'm sure the Mini would have no issue and imagine the new ADK box with a PCIe interface (not trivial-you need PCIe for VI latency) will chew both up and spit them out at handling all facets at once.
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Post by keymod on Aug 21, 2016 5:40:50 GMT -6
Thanks for both replies. I will certainly install any VIs on the currently-running ADK, which is in my control room. The room where I have my keyboards set up is about forty feet away, and my Roland Vdrum set is about thirty feet away. I want to be able to use the software "standalone" so as to play the instruments live in the rooms, but have the ability to record back midi tracks if needed into the DAW. Based on my history with ADK ( I own two rack-mount ) , I would prefer to purchase one of their laptops for this use. But the Mac Mini fits a little bit easier into budget planning right now. Whichever one I choose, I want the ability to have a small mobile rig in the event I ever want to/find the time to play out anywhere again.
The other issue is then which interface to choose. The keys only need stereo out, but I would want at least six for the drums.
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Post by popmann on Aug 21, 2016 13:22:52 GMT -6
RME has by far the only USB drivers that go near PCIe latency.... I'd suggest that a remote desktop session on any laptop is a solution for needing to interact with the instrument UI from another room. Live rig, obviously a different thing all together....but, I'd point out that what makes a great articulate piano in the studio doesn't always translate into a great live sound. Why you still see guys who HAVE laptops sitting there using the DP they're sitting on rather than the software. They're using the software for non bread and butter sounds....I get the desire....but, also a Mini? You gonna hook up a keyboard and mouse and monitor along with the USB audio box? You want a SSD loaded MacBook. Surface Pro. Something you can have the unit and the audio "dongle" (IO box)....MIDI cable to it....Kronos can just plug in and BE the audio IO--audio/midi over USB to the Macbook. Sound of the software comes out the same outputs as the internal sounds. Talk about pimp modern keyboard rig. But, I WOULD think that....  |
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Post by Ward on Aug 21, 2016 18:10:41 GMT -6
popmann, you are both passionate and convincing when it comes to explaining your preference for a PC with regards to Virtual Instruments... which I use a fair bit of and would like to use more of. So, consider this... would it be beneficial to a studio production guy like me to run all my pro tools on my Mac Pro and have a PC tower for virtual instruments? And if so, what's the best synchronization solution today to lock two machines together? Many thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions you can provide. Ward
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Post by popmann on Aug 22, 2016 9:42:18 GMT -6
I wouldn't recommend a second machine of any OS unless you're having some performance troubles.
But, if you do, there's no need to "sync" at all....the second machine simply hosts VIs and acts like a multitibral MIDI module. To list out advantages:
--load the VIs once per session for similar sound sets....like doing orchestral work--you load up your orchestra once when you sit down and then you can flip between audio/midi projects on the main computer quickly without having to reload.
--financially, I can do 24/96 audio OR run VIs on relatively low rent and old machines without much regard to the config, but if it needs to do BOTH well, you need to get pickier about the config and spend more than twice as much.
--run the VIs at their native sample rate, which is the best sounding and performing independent of the "other 30 tracks".
If you're running an old Pro with a PCIe interface and multiple internal SATA SSDs, there's not going to be enough improvement with a Windows box to care about other than the advantages of any secondary machine. Which also complicates that whole scenario logistically--which is why I don't recommend in unless you NEED it.
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