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Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 17, 2016 20:07:55 GMT -6
So cowboy, what filters were you using? Cheers, Geoff Well I was always using HPF. But usually used a slight roll off (if any) on the highs such as a pultec. I've found lately that a steep 48db per octave LPF works well for my stuff. It's mix between finding the right roll off between the lows and the highs. Change one, and then change the other until it comes into focus. Back and forth.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 17, 2016 20:35:32 GMT -6
This makes me miss my CAPI 528's
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,943
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Post by ericn on Aug 17, 2016 21:14:55 GMT -6
This makes me miss my CAPI 528's Pageing Jeff !
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 17, 2016 21:32:22 GMT -6
Good suggestion Cowboy, I'll try to LPF some tracks. perhaps that's a good part of why my mixes bug me a lot.
I've taken the general advice online and typically roll off the lowest frequency range on some instruments, including the vocal.
But lately, I'm having second thoughts about cutting too much low end. here's why, in my home stereo system I have a small REL subwoofer. It connects differently than most subs. Although you can use a cable, REL also give you these skinny speaker wires that piggyback on your main speaker out wires. It's getting the signal direct, not passing through any processing, and does sound better. REL doesn't call their subwoofers subwoofers, they call them ambient retrieval systems. At one time I had a bigger system, with a bigger REL sub, and the difference in soundstage, depth, width, height was tremendous with the sub on, with it off, quite flat sounding. It was in fact, an ambience retrieval system, I could feel the space in 3D.
So, something about spatial clues seems to reside in the very low frequencies. It can be confusing though. I used a Soyuz 0-17 mic a few months back. It's quite similar to a U67 in size and heft, it's warm, round and big, but when I look at the frequency analyzer, there's hardly anything below 200 Hz! So, in the case of the Soyuz, it doesn't need those frequencies to sound lush.
Cowboy, are there any particular instruments that you recommend cutting the upper highs on? As for vocals, what frequency do you like to begin cutting at?
I'd love to try an analogue EQ on the 2 bus, but for now, I have to use a plug. What do you guys recommend? I have a huge Waves bundle, UAD's Massive Passive and Pultecs, Elysia's mastering EQ, and probably a half dozen I can't think of right now. I can also just use Logic's track EQ too.
I do have the Warm Audio EQP-WA, so is it an even better idea to just cut the highs right then and there when I'm tracking?
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Post by geoff738 on Aug 17, 2016 23:36:54 GMT -6
So cowboy, what filters were you using? Cheers, Geoff Well I was always using HPF. But usually used a slight roll off (if any) on the highs such as a pultec. I've found lately that a steep 48db per octave LPF works well for my stuff. It's mix between finding the right roll off between the lows and the highs. Change one, and then change the other until it comes into focus. Back and forth. Wow, 48 db sounds pretty extreme to me. Anything above 12 gets me a bit, well, questioning things. But I'll admit it may be a bit of a case of going with the perceived notion that the steeper the filter, the more wonky the artefacts. Does the steeper the filter alter the amount of the bump at the corner frequency? And Cowboy, are you using filters in your DAW, plugs, outboard? Great topic. I definitely will be listening to the top octave with a more critical lens. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 18, 2016 8:12:13 GMT -6
48db at 19k is not nearly as extreme as 12db at 10k. It's all relative to position. I like steep filters on the low end sometimes too. I find steep filters allow more of the natural sound through. Probably because we don't have to go up or down nearly as far to get the result. It lets more of the mic through.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Aug 18, 2016 13:02:24 GMT -6
Always whack the shit out of the tops on synth pads, synth strings, hi hats, bass, open hats, & crashes. I usually LPF to around 15-18 kHz with Pro Q 2 and depending on the individual sound or how it fits in the mix. I usually set a 15khz 6db-12db octave lpf on most vox takes, I find this gets rid of unwanted sizzle or edge that isn't needed. Plus once the crap is removed, if the need to boost hi end is warranted the hi end is now "clean" and air boosts sound more natural like it's apart of the original sound not slapped or layered on. Most (95%) mixes get Hpf around 29-34 hz , slope/ db per octave varies per mix, as well as most instruments/ sounds in the mix. I mainly work in rap, trap, Pop, R and B, Trapsoul and most music from these genres is either really mixed and produced well, or literally horribly produced and mixed! I mean people are talking in the vox takes, phones going off, jewelry rattling into the mic after being recorded in a 2x2 egg carton closet, I mean resonances from hell even had dogs barking in some stuff I have mixed before Filtering is a very important tool for me in these situations, and yes sometimes 72db LPF is needed to get ringing out of recorded tracks. I mix rock type stuff less, however same principles apply, I find myself lpf reamp gtr tracks, reamp bass tracks, lead vox, bgv, bass, lead gtr, power chords or chugging gtrs gets Hpf and Lpf. Haven't had my ears tested but I'm under 30 and my room is heavily treated, I have been around loud loud music since 5 yrs old.. Also, I have had sub bass systems in every car I owned, and I just learned about ear plugs about 3 years ago for clubs, events and concerts. I highly doubt I hear 20hz-20khz. Is using a signal generator in the daw a real world way of testing what you hear? Edit*** see below onlinetonegenerator.com/hearingtest.htmlUsing this on my iPhone at full volume, no earbuds, I can get up to 16,770. With iPhone earbuds, volume 3 clicks down from max volume, I almost made it to 17,000. 2nd test I turned the volume up to max after 10khz and still barely got past 17,000. Starting with earbuds and volume at max was not pleasant. Also it seems as if loudness/ amplitude changes as the sweep gets higher in frequency. Sorry for the long post, Great thread here:)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 13:19:29 GMT -6
When i owned the Apogee Symphony my mixes required way more LPF.
The range i guess on modern converters go way up..
I've since plugged back in my 16x's , they seem to work better for me..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 18, 2016 13:50:32 GMT -6
ChaseUTB, 17k is very high, if you're hearing that, you're OK. I just about made it to around 1450 on a good day. The ultra high's are probably felt somehow, not necessarily heard, but this LPF idea is something I'm looking forward to trying soon.
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Post by M57 on Aug 18, 2016 14:26:54 GMT -6
If you want to blow your mind (actually someone else's) try this the next time you have a couple of 15 year old kids in the studio: Throw up a 15k tone on the monitors and bring up the volume just until you can hear it softly. - Now look around and watch and listen to those teenagers scream as they cover their ears like they're trying to keep their brains from exploding out of their heads.
Speaking of exploding heads, anybody here watching the new "Braindead" series? My wife and I howl when we watch it. The basic premise is that alien bugs the size of ants land on earth and make their way to Washington where they get inside the brains of a number of senators, house leaders, staff and people from various other gov. agencies etc. and then do their best to bring the government to a standstill as part of their plan to take over the world. It takes place NOW, with current TV clips of Trump and Clinton, etc running on the TVs in the scene's backgrounds. It would be even funnier except we keep on telling each other it could actually be true.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 18, 2016 14:31:06 GMT -6
Whe I was a boy, I used to complain to my parents when we went shopping at the big department stores. I used to say I kept hearing a sound and it hurt. We eventually went to the office to ask about it, and discovered I was hearing an ultra high frequency tone generated by their surveillance systems.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 18, 2016 15:44:08 GMT -6
I think I could hear up to 15 maybe 16K last time I checked. I'm 33 and try not to do as much loudness abuse as I used to. I can still hear pretty well all things considered. Always wear ear plugs to concerts, etc.
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