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Post by mrholmes on Aug 11, 2016 4:20:31 GMT -6
Very very late I had the time to Demo VTM by Slate.
Holy shit this thing sounds great.
It reminds me on my M15A days....you get that smooth dynamic range move with a nice creamy low end and a nice 3d feel...
It is one of the better plug ins.
I had hope that I wont buy new plug ins.....but this one is tempting.
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Post by ragan on Aug 11, 2016 8:32:40 GMT -6
Very very late I had the time to Demo VTM by Slate. Holy shit this thing sounds great. It reminds me on my M15A days....you get that smooth dynamic range move with a nice creamy low end and a nice 3d feel... It is one of the better plug ins. I had hope that I wont buy new plug ins.....but this one is tempting. Just make sure you're unlinking the input and output so you can get rid of the ridiculous Slate Volume Bump. Once RMS matched, I choose it less than half the time when I blind AB. Of course it may be just the ticket for you, just wanted to point out to beware of that volume bump. Might save you some coin. |
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Post by mhbunch on Aug 11, 2016 10:30:03 GMT -6
IMO it is one of the closest plugins out there to the real thing. I've tried all the UAD stuff, Waves (although haven't tried the j37 yet..), Massey tapehead etc. and I keep coming back to slate. Pretty much always use it with 456 15ips and -1.5db on the bass response.
Still, I won't be getting rid of my tape machine anytime soon.
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Post by joseph on Aug 11, 2016 12:40:32 GMT -6
I tried VTM and still think U-he Satin is the best, being more hifi sounding and customizable with headbump control, things like asperity and hiss control for each instance (adds depth), eq, grouping, and Dolby.
The Studer presets really nail tape as hifi recording medium rather than effect.
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Post by drbill on Aug 11, 2016 13:11:37 GMT -6
For those of you using VTM and VCC - on a scale of 1-100 where would you place each of them. In other words, is VTM significantly better (or worse) than VCC.
I never bothered to try VTM. After other Slate plugs and VCC, I gave up on em.
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Post by 79sg on Aug 11, 2016 13:24:36 GMT -6
I have both, cannot remember the last time I used VCC. Doesn't do anything for me. I'm sure there are others that will disagree and that's okay. VTM is a decent plugin and gets used. I became a bit disenchanted with Slate and never adopted his "rack" philosophy. I do use and like VBC however (but that's not part of the discussion  ). So to answer your question drbill on a scale of 1-100, since I don't use VCC anymore I would have to give it a 1 and due to the fact VTM does end up in projects I will give it a 75. They're plugins after all and without starting a software vs. hardware circular argument, I am old school and still believe there's nothing like the real thing. If I were to look for another tape style plugin I'd go with U-he Satin. Own most of Urs synths and a huge fan of his work. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 11, 2016 13:30:59 GMT -6
Very very late I had the time to Demo VTM by Slate. Holy shit this thing sounds great. It reminds me on my M15A days....you get that smooth dynamic range move with a nice creamy low end and a nice 3d feel... It is one of the better plug ins. I had hope that I wont buy new plug ins.....but this one is tempting. Just make sure you're unlinking the input and output so you can get rid of the ridiculous Slate Volume Bump. Once RMS matched, I choose it less than half the time when I blind AB. Of course it may be just the ticket for you, just wanted to point out to beware of that volume bump. Might save you some coin. I don't really use it much either. Massive bass bump...Really, I guess that's what guys use tape for in the first place - bottom gets bigger and the top smooths out...I haven't really heard it do any of the compression effects that real tape does. But more and more I find that tape doesn't just magically make things better... |
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 11, 2016 13:40:43 GMT -6
I tried VTM and still think U-he Satin is the best, being more hifi sounding and customizable with headbump control, things like asperity and hiss control for each instance (adds depth), eq, grouping, and Dolby. The Studer presets really nail tape as hifi recording medium rather than effect. Good hint never heard about it before..... |
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 11, 2016 14:42:45 GMT -6
Just make sure you're unlinking the input and output so you can get rid of the ridiculous Slate Volume Bump. Once RMS matched, I choose it less than half the time when I blind AB. Of course it may be just the ticket for you, just wanted to point out to beware of that volume bump. Might save you some coin. I don't really use it much either. Massive bass bump...Really, I guess that's what guys use tape for in the first place - bottom gets bigger and the top smooths out...I haven't really heard it do any of the compression effects that real tape does. But more and more I find that tape doesn't just magically make things better... After all I ABed TBReel-Bus / Slate-VTM / Uhe-Satin I have to say they are all very similar. Maybe John is right it does something what you need to like - I never said that its magical - BTW. Anyway case is solved for me Slate-VTM is not magical better than the 20$ TBReel-Bus. I could live without it but for an old school sound I like that it does some of this. I wish I would have not sold the M 15 but if I remember right it did similar things to the mix. |
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Post by Mister Chase on Aug 11, 2016 15:58:26 GMT -6
Even level matched(but how do you technically level match the tape plugin, it has such a curve. Whatever frequency you pick to be your zero point) I find that VCC and VTM on gives a different feel. The workflow is still wrong though. They really need to be zero latency. This way, you can put your mic up, listen then record. At least through VCC. I guess guys either monitored straight from the board without listening to the tape or they listened back to hear what the tape did and adjusted. Either way, I think it's best to get tape and console sounds involved as early as possible as in the real world scenarios. Once I've spent time moving and choosing mics, just slapping on tape and console sat sort of changes all my hard work, not always for the better.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 17:13:28 GMT -6
I tried VTM and still think U-he Satin is the best, being more hifi sounding and customizable with headbump control, things like asperity and hiss control for each instance (adds depth), eq, grouping, and Dolby. The Studer presets really nail tape as hifi recording medium rather than effect. Urs Heckmann is kind of a genious when it comes to very well designed and sounding digital audio processing. His synths and effects always have some kind of clever twist or extra gimmick others have not. And they sound silly good (even the free ones). Hans Zimmer uses u-he synths/Zebra excessively...for a reason. u-he stuff is not marketing hyped but simply good quality. He really knows his stuff. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 11, 2016 19:08:25 GMT -6
I guess guys either monitored straight from the board without listening to the tape or they listened back to hear what the tape did and adjusted. At the risk of stating the obvious -- when recording to a real life honest to goodness tape machine, we NEVER listened off of "tape" playback while tracking. It's physically impossible unless you're telepathic and can record without REALLY hearing where you are in the song. We were always on input, and 99% of the time listened "thru" the tape machine input off the sync head so that we could punch in. Then for playback you're hearing "tape". There was always a bit of an adjustment period on playback, but it was just part of the process, no one ever complained or fought it. It's just the way it was. Physics and all.... So is that really different than slapping a plug-in on after recording? Although a good engineer was always aware of the machine and how it affected not only the initial playback, but also how tape degraded over additional playbacks, we were never really trying to affect the tone that much with the tape machine like we are with plugins. It was just a part of the process.... |
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Post by donr on Aug 11, 2016 19:34:49 GMT -6
In my experience, none of the tape sims consistently make what you put through it better. It works for some things. More often, UAD Pultec, Manley Vari-Mu or UAD or Slate Fairchild does something to tracks I find pleasing, even as pass through. I like VCC Trident and SSL for some stuff too. I find VCC works better in the newer Slate VMR format than it did in V.1.
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Post by joseph on Aug 11, 2016 19:40:28 GMT -6
I tried VTM and still think U-he Satin is the best, being more hifi sounding and customizable with headbump control, things like asperity and hiss control for each instance (adds depth), eq, grouping, and Dolby. The Studer presets really nail tape as hifi recording medium rather than effect. Urs Heckmann is kind of a genious when it comes to very well designed and sounding digital audio processing. His synths and effects always have some kind of clever twist or extra gimmick others have not. And they sound silly good (even the free ones). Hans Zimmer uses u-he synths/Zebra excessively...for a reason. u-he stuff is not marketing hyped but simply good quality. He really knows his stuff. Agreed. The Pro-One emulation they're working on is shaping up nicely. I have never heard softsynth filters that good as in the alpha. And Bazille is totally unique. To me Satin is just much more configurable and can be tailored to complement a project's sound, whereas I see the other tape sims as mostly just one effect with exaggerated bump and static roll off that either works or doesn't. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 12, 2016 10:53:20 GMT -6
They all model different machines and tape.
I arranged the machine for the Kramer tape. It sounds exactly like the totally unmodified (the old shot caps were replaced) Ampex 351 that came from an audiophile. The machine only sounded right with Scotch 111, 201 and 203 tape. We went with the 203 1 mil tape because it was more stable and there would be no print through. I was amazed by how accurate the plug-in was on a wide variety of test sources.
That said, a 351 is not a universal answer. They were never used with the amount of eq. and compression that is common today and the midrange boost they give can push things over the top. They also were used 99% for complete mixes. The plug-in also needs to be run at a very low level because software developers never want anything subtle. This is true of almost all analog modeling.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 12, 2016 11:08:55 GMT -6
I had the Slate, and I also have that Kramer Tape, and it was OK, but didn't wow me. Perhaps where I was using it didn't give it a chance. I also have the UAD Ampex, and although it does some nice things, it doesn't really sound like tape. Their new, less expensive Oxide plugin is the only plugin I've ever heard that actually felt like I was listening to something on tape.
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 12, 2016 13:45:54 GMT -6
I started on tape machines and large format consoles and for me VTM is the closest to tape in a plugin so far, I find it useful for a range of things.
Sometimes for a change I'll record an acoustic guitar with my vintage AKG 451's and then insert VTM to get a Fleetwood Mac - Rumours type thing, sometimes VTM works very well for me.
I also use VCC on my mixes (always on the SSL setting) and because I'm using analog gain staging with my stereo bus processing I find VCC works very well for my mixing approach.
I find Slate plugins to be every bit as well coded as UAD, Fabfilter, Powercore, iZotope etc theyr're all great tools I find very useful to create music.
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 12, 2016 15:43:35 GMT -6
For those of you using VTM and VCC - on a scale of 1-100 where would you place each of them. In other words, is VTM significantly better (or worse) than VCC. I never bothered to try VTM. After other Slate plugs and VCC, I gave up on em. I did use VCC and it did not work for me either it does not sound anything like my analog summed mixes and if an SSL sounds like the Plug-In I don't want to use one.... VTM did something at lest what you may expect. Different approach same goal is Airwindows too Tape4 - 50$ www.airwindows.com/totape4/You soon can get Airwindows as VST and AAX too. |
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Post by wiz on Aug 12, 2016 15:56:07 GMT -6
They all model different machines and tape. I arranged the machine for the Kramer tape. It sounds exactly like the totally unmodified (the old shot caps were replaced) Ampex 351 that came from an audiophile. The machine only sounded right with Scotch 111, 201 and 203 tape. We went with the 203 1 mil tape because it was more stable and there would be no print through. I was amazed by how accurate the plug-in was on a wide variety of test sources. That said, a 351 is not a universal answer. They were never used with the amount of eq. and compression that is common today and the midrange boost they give can push things over the top. They also were used 99% for complete mixes. The plug-in also needs to be run at a very low level because software developers never want anything subtle. This is true of almost all analog modeling. Interesting, I own the kramer, and the VTM, I preferred the Kramer.. and funny enough found that using it hitting no higher than -6VU was where it sounded best. I don't think anything ever made it out of the studio, of my music, with it on though. Same with VTM, and VCC I think only on high track count (well higher than me ) Client mixes.... I found on stuff I hadn't tracked, it helped. cheers Wiz |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 17:29:43 GMT -6
Talking about Harrison's approach to tape sim in Mixbus, it is just complimenting the sound of their console emulation and sits in a good place, in the busses. Don't know which type of tape they resemble, you can't hear it separated from the console. It just works, i turn it fully down very rarely, on some sources. But it's hard to make it sound really bad. It can be slammed quite hard and still sounds OK somehow on many sources. I really like it in more subtle doses, sometimes nice when slammed into the red to be more obvious, but since it is designed exclusively for Mixbus, it falls over in the comparison to the other much more configurable sims. One knob. At least you don't need to write a manual for it.
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Post by Randge on Aug 13, 2016 12:37:12 GMT -6
I own the Slate VTM and will occasionally use it. I prefer the Oxide plug and find that it does what I want better for my tastes. I like it over all the other UAD tape style plugs as well.
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Post by jeromemason on Aug 13, 2016 17:16:41 GMT -6
I have it, don't really use it and I sort of forget I have it. Sometimes if I've got some guitars that kind of stingy I'll think about it and throw it on the guitar buss.
I've never felt any of the tape plugins actually do what real tape does honestly. I loved tracking drums to it and dropping the takes into Protools. To me it would bring the kit together, I hate to use the word glue but that's really what it was like. I think the UAD Studer was about as close I've ever heard, running on 15ips it'll pull things together a bit.
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Post by Mister Chase on Sept 6, 2016 12:08:02 GMT -6
I guess guys either monitored straight from the board without listening to the tape or they listened back to hear what the tape did and adjusted. At the risk of stating the obvious -- when recording to a real life honest to goodness tape machine, we NEVER listened off of "tape" playback while tracking. It's physically impossible unless you're telepathic and can record without REALLY hearing where you are in the song. We were always on input, and 99% of the time listened "thru" the tape machine input off the sync head so that we could punch in. Then for playback you're hearing "tape". There was always a bit of an adjustment period on playback, but it was just part of the process, no one ever complained or fought it. It's just the way it was. Physics and all.... So is that really different than slapping a plug-in on after recording? Although a good engineer was always aware of the machine and how it affected not only the initial playback, but also how tape degraded over additional playbacks, we were never really trying to affect the tone that much with the tape machine like we are with plugins. It was just a part of the process.... Right. So I suppose that in the end, it's the same process. You monitor directly, then on playback you hear the tape effect plugin. I suppose it's just as easy to render or freeze your tracks after that. |
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Post by Guitar on Sept 9, 2016 14:47:06 GMT -6
My favorite tape-thingies are the UAD ones and the u-He Satin. My favorite place for it is on the whole mix. I didn't dig the Slate or Waves ones, much.
For some reason I only use things like these on certain individual channels that maybe stick out in some way, similar to how I would use a VCC plugin.
I haven't tried it yet, but I thought it might be fun to install these things on every single channel and bus in a mix and just see how it sounds. I guess stuff like the Harrison program takes care of this for you already. Cubase has a Magneto device on every channel, but it just doesn't sound all that great.
It would also be fun to track a whole song "to tape" using Oxide on Apollo. I haven't tried this yet either but mean to. That would take a lot of the fuss out of it, regarding setup.
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Post by viciousbliss on Oct 4, 2016 2:55:51 GMT -6
I made some comments on kvr on a tape thread and can sum them up here. Satin is probably most similar to VTM out of all the ones I've tried. The sound is a bit more transparent and clean. Those Studer presets are really nice, that's right. J37 has more of a rolled off high end sound than the others. HEAT and Phoenix II seem to pump up the lowest frequencies more than the others. I rarely choose HEAT and after 30 days of testing couldn't begin to justify $450 for Phoenix II. McDSP Analog Channel 202 is really good. Sorta like Phoenix but without the big low end. I'll often stick AC202 on individual tracks instead of or in addition to Satin. Euro Vintage 1 is my fav preset to work with and I rarely adjust more than the input/output. I like the sound better when you turn down the input and turn up the output. With J37 I'll usually do the opposite although I haven't tried turning down the input much. J37 seems to overload and distort in a bad way far easier than the rest. Kramer comes across as smooth and crunchy. Reelbus seemed credible when I tried it but it's been a long time. Using one of these on a whole mix can do very well if you set it right. They're all worth owning but if I had to pick one, it'd be Satin.
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