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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 9, 2016 10:07:12 GMT -6
I posted a album of demos that I put together...but what I'm finding is that EVERYBODY will stream it (for free) but very few will buy...after all, why buy the cow if you get the milk for free? Anyway, I don't know if I see a way to offer just "snippets" for stream on Reverberation...and then the ability to purchase if you want the full song. This was all kind of a spur of the moment thing - and my desire is not to be an artist, but generate any extra income I could. This could all be moot because I'm in the process of giving wavs to my publisher to get it out to digital distribution...ala iTunes, Google Play, etc...so I might yank it down when that happens...
It's funny though - even relatives have shared on Facebook and talked me up - then not bought the album. So - I'd rather sell three copies and get paid for it than "share it for the world." lol
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 9, 2016 10:35:03 GMT -6
you know how on iTunes you can preview either 0:30 or 1:30 of a song? What if folks started only uploading the first 30 seconds or minute of their songs to soundcloud/youtube with links to buy the whole song?
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Post by jazznoise on Aug 9, 2016 11:14:16 GMT -6
I think that's the opposite attitude to have. You're much better off having people made aware and given the choice than not.
Most people I know selling CD's sell them at gigs. That's usually when you'll win someone over, not when they're sat at their laptop. Do you play out ever?
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Post by drbill on Aug 9, 2016 11:25:07 GMT -6
John - I'd cut together a 3-4-5 minute "demo" of the album, hard fast, creative and "obvious" edits, all the great parts of the CD, generate excitement, up and up, and then end it. Done. With a link to buy the album. Think movie trailer - or the season finale of a TV show that has you on a cliffhanger wanting to start the next season right away. Think about how they lay out the story line, and build momentum until you are dying to see the movie. You've got to give them the idea, get them excited, hook em, but not give them the product. It works for film companies, it will work for musical artists if the edits are done well. Film companies often spend inordinate amounts of the films budget on getting people in the seats the first weekend. If they do it well, it doesn't even matter if the movie is a turd. If the first weekend is a success, the movie is box office gold. This is how I present "albums" to distributors. Saves them time, leaves them "wondering" and wanting more, makes them want to call me and ultimately sells the product. Good luck generating the extra income stream!!!
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 9, 2016 11:29:25 GMT -6
I think that's the opposite attitude to have. You're much better off having people made aware and given the choice than not. Most people I know selling CD's sell them at gigs. That's usually when you'll win someone over, not when they're sat at their laptop. Do you play out ever? I'm a songwriter. I don't have gigs. |
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Post by popmann on Aug 9, 2016 11:31:11 GMT -6
Whatever you do, don't make the downloads FREE....not because of some panned back business ramifications, but the sheer ego hit can be devastating.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 9, 2016 11:32:16 GMT -6
John - I'd cut together a 3-4-5 minute "demo" of the album, hard fast, creative and "obvious" edits, all the great parts of the CD, generate excitement, up and up, and then end it. Done. With a link to buy the album. Think movie trailer - or the season finale of a TV show that has you on a cliffhanger wanting to start the next season right away. Think about how they lay out the story line, and build momentum until you are dying to see the movie. You've got to give them the idea, get them excited, hook em, but not give them the product. It works for film companies, it will work for musical artists if the edits are done well. Film companies often spend inordinate amounts of the films budget on getting people in the seats the first weekend. If they do it well, it doesn't even matter if the movie is a turd. If the first weekend is a success, the movie is box office gold. This is how I present "albums" to distributors. Saves them time, leaves them "wondering" and wanting more, makes them want to call me and ultimately sells the product. Great idea! I think my publisher is just gonna put it out and it will be on iTunes and the like...but it would be nice to host the whole thing and do like you're saying...I guess there's more exposure with iTunes, etc...But I'm not shooting for a grammy lol or playing Glastonberry. Just want to make a little dough (why not? These are just sitting on the shelf) and be able to sell to friends and family while paying fellow songwriters. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 9, 2016 11:32:56 GMT -6
Whatever you do, don't make the downloads FREE....not because of some panned back business ramifications, but the sheer ego hit can be devastating. LOL - yeah no shit. I did this same thing about 5 years ago. Sold 11 copies. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 15:45:24 GMT -6
Hi John, how does the music publisher deal work? Does it prevent other distro deals?
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 9, 2016 15:50:04 GMT -6
No - actually, it's not really a music publisher that is responsible for distribution, it's the record label...My publishing company has a "parked" record label, so we will most likely use that. I mean, really I'm just a dude putting out a few songs...not that formal.
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Post by wiz on Aug 9, 2016 16:37:46 GMT -6
Welcome to my world! it blows..... I am about to drop my 5th album release..... I nearly didn't make this one... because of financials.. and the only thing I pay for is mastering! My first record did really well, 2nd ... well, 3rd broke even... 4th lost 5th... lets see I have done film clips, videos, tutorials, workshops, Facebook, website, cd release parties, offered to play live in peoples homes if they bought 10 CDs, toured... you name it... I havent stood naked in the mall, with streamers hanging out of my ass.... thats Tuesday next! fingers crossed 8) Apart from record number 1, only time I have sold any significant amount of Albums, has been at gigs.. and usually people are buying them because they had a nice dinner, good view, liked a cover song I sang and want to take home a momento. My opinion, learned the hard way, don't base your vision of success for your album , art, whatever.. on the amount of unit sales... you will end up crushed soul wise.... I did. You can't hang your worth on that. I get emails, with people telling me that song A from album 3 means so much to them.. I guy told me at a gig the other night, that he has put into his will, that one of my songs is to be played at his funeral... that was pretty moving.. Johnkenn if you do however find a way to seperate people from their money, let me know will you.... 8) cheers Wiz |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 16:57:32 GMT -6
You probably know all this already, but.... Try other sites like Bandcamp, Orfium etc which are free (or used to be) and easier to put music up /take down. I'm strictly amateur and use CDbaby and earn meager amounts from downloads / streaming. But there are much more polished artists allegedly making reasonable money with them.
I know a lot of people that moved away from Reverbnation as it didn't work for them.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 9, 2016 17:27:00 GMT -6
Yeah...might do that...I've got like 100 songs on RN. What a pain in the ass.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 9, 2016 17:29:38 GMT -6
It seems that everyone in the hip rock bands do band camp these days. RN looks super dated in comparison.
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Post by swurveman on Aug 9, 2016 18:08:35 GMT -6
I tell bands not to give their music away for free. 15 second snippets on their websites, but that's it. They work hard at promoting their shows and sell CD's at their shows. People with a buzz are more prone to loosen their wallets and their live show brings it out.
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Post by yotonic on Aug 9, 2016 23:07:35 GMT -6
In December, Consequence of Sound reported that Pharell Williams’ megahit, “Happy,” generated just $2,700 for 43 million plays on Pandora. You can make more money................________________________-
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Post by drbill on Aug 9, 2016 23:16:51 GMT -6
 ? I have a buddy who does "solo piano" music and has 4-5 albums on Pandora with a few tunes in rotation in the new age solo piano channel over there, and I can guarantee you he has no where near 43 million plays, and makes a hell of a lot more than $2,700. Hard to know who to believe..... But I know for a fact he's making decent money on Pandora.... |
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 10, 2016 4:56:42 GMT -6
? I have a buddy who does "solo piano" music and has 4-5 albums on Pandora with a few tunes in rotation in the new age solo piano channel over there, and I can guarantee you he has no where near 43 million plays, and makes a hell of a lot more than $2,700. Hard to know who to believe..... But I know for a fact he's making decent money on Pandora.... Its always the same we read the statistics wrong! And than we start to complain - I know it because I did it myself. There are two sides of the coin:
Signed artists complain about streaming, not because of streaming. Because they have signed a big label split they see ø 30% of the streaming fees. Some of them have very old contracts and they see lesser than 30%. And than they go and say - Spotify is bad for all of us?? Press jumps on the wagon.... bang.... Everybody believs it. Good old Taylor Swift is not talking about the marketing effect she had from her hate-tirade against Spotify. She did not lost a single word about the contracts she signed. She totally blamed Spotify as the only asshole in the game. I doubt that Spotify is the reason for that she just got something like 50.000 $ for 100 millions of plays. Streaming is the future, the only future we have because the alternative is named pirate bay. If you are unsigned you get ø 0,004 - 0,005 Cents per stream plus royalties, and we hope it will be more in the future. The goal is to get as many plays as possible.
If you are an unsigned act the question is which distribution way goes together with your plan to make money! I see a lot of smart musicians, often better than me, writing great music and after this they have no idea what to do next. The question is do you have a business / marketing plan??
The future is to be an Independent composer. Because you are totally on your own and you can license the music in the way you think it is a fair deal. No one is stepping in your studio and is telling you what stile of music you have to do next. Sure it is hard work to distribute yourself. I know it because I am writing since 3 months a new business plan - and its pure fun. It frees your mind and your soul from a sick system - 360° deals etc. Everybody must decide if he wants to do exclusive streaming or in a combination with other media. In other words if you think about the possibilities of today versus the 90s. I think we live in blessed times... And if you don't know how to deal with the next new internet invention. Ask your kids they got it - long before you.
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Post by jazznoise on Aug 10, 2016 6:30:41 GMT -6
It seems that everyone in the hip rock bands do band camp these days. RN looks super dated in comparison. We sure do. And the hip hop heads, it gives the consumer a good choice (They can purchase physical copies or soft) and they can stream the whole album once. I know you're a songwriter John, but to me when you release a set of your own work played by yourself you're also the performer. And gigging is the only way I know performers will sell records. |
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Post by M57 on Aug 10, 2016 7:20:41 GMT -6
..gigging is the only way I know performers will sell records. Agree. This is what distinguishes songwriters from singer/songwriters (who perform). Right now the pure songwriter (as a profession) is fast becoming an anachronism - so the question may very well be, are songwriters even necessary anymore? ..and if so, how can the new model support them, or who/what takes their place? |
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Post by kilroyrock on Aug 10, 2016 13:24:51 GMT -6
John, why not put the songs on iTunes etc yourself and keep the publisher's share as well? It's more curiosity than anything. CDBaby gives me all the royalties, I just pay 50 up front. You can find my music everywhere on any streaming thing, and can choose to exclude who I want to exclude streaming company wise.
Do you think you owe it to the publisher to make sure they continue wanting you to submit songs to them? Or is it simply ease of use and habit?
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Post by wiz on Aug 10, 2016 15:01:59 GMT -6
I have used CD Baby to distribute to iTunes, I now use Distrokid
there have been literally tens of thousands of plays of my songs, which is really really REALLY nice!!
I guess thats why I make music, and it is being listened to.
One day, hopefully pretty soon, I will get passed the $10 minimum draw out fee, and buy myself a coffee and donut to celebrate... I did this about 5 years ago, when I got my first payment from the streaming services...
the coffee was nice... sadly the donut was poor.
8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 10, 2016 15:16:20 GMT -6
I have used CD Baby to distribute to iTunes, I now use Distrokid there have been literally tens of thousands of plays of my songs, which is really really REALLY nice!! I guess thats why I make music, and it is being listened to. One day, hopefully pretty soon, I will get passed the $10 minimum draw out fee, and buy myself a coffee and donut to celebrate... I did this about 5 years ago, when I got my first payment from the streaming services... the coffee was nice... sadly the donut was poor. 8) cheers Wiz 10 thousand is not enough... thats why I talked about a PLAN in marketing. |
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Post by wiz on Aug 10, 2016 15:44:38 GMT -6
I have used CD Baby to distribute to iTunes, I now use Distrokid there have been literally tens of thousands of plays of my songs, which is really really REALLY nice!! I guess thats why I make music, and it is being listened to. One day, hopefully pretty soon, I will get passed the $10 minimum draw out fee, and buy myself a coffee and donut to celebrate... I did this about 5 years ago, when I got my first payment from the streaming services... the coffee was nice... sadly the donut was poor. 8) cheers Wiz you missed an "s" 8) tens... 8) Hey, if "happy" made what it made, off the amount of plays it had... what chance does anyone have... major label dudes, or scumbag bottom feeders like me? 8) I also have plays on commercial radio here in oz.. I aint seeing a dime (or 10 cents.. well 7.6 cents Australian at todays exchange rate) from that... used to. I think they don't report ISRCs like they used to. I do see a little money from other artists playing my tunes and submitting live performance returns. See here is the thing. I agreed to the rates I get paid by all the digital distributors... I didn't HAVE to sign.. (but I did 8) ) So, I can't really whinge and moan. But I do 8) cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on Aug 10, 2016 15:47:08 GMT -6
Oh, i have sat in a commercial radio station, doing an interview, where I had my CD with me... and the DJ played the song...OFF YOU TUBE!
yep, you tube.
8)
what ya gonna do.. its his world
cheers
Wiz
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? I have a buddy who does "solo piano" music and has 4-5 albums on Pandora with a few tunes in rotation in the new age solo piano channel over there, and I can guarantee you he has no where near 43 million plays, and makes a hell of a lot more than $2,700. Hard to know who to believe..... But I know for a fact he's making decent money on Pandora....
