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Post by svart on Aug 9, 2016 8:53:26 GMT -6
most of the people that are gonna buy this (basically forum members here) have one interface with 8, maybe 16 channels. they don't have 96 channels of conversion that need clocking. So are you saying that people don't need a lot of BNC outputs? Honestly it wouldn't matter much if I buffered out 6 outputs, I'm just wondering what people want. |
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Post by mulmany on Aug 9, 2016 9:41:09 GMT -6
I was not a part of the test, but I was told that the head engineer did a sync test and was able to hear 3 WC jumps through devices. They also did loop tests after and found that it was not sample accurate. Now this was a few years ago. The studio had one clock distribution, and was using a mix of spidif, aes, and ADAT I/O outboard, set up as inserts in PT HD. So they did not loop the WC through the outboard. Through, as in WC IN and then WC OUT to the next device? So that each device had to split and buffer for the next one? I could see someone detecting a difference through each device, as the buffering is crucial to the signal integrity. Yes, using the through connection on the device. I also know that they tested using T's and found them problematic as well (but not on the same scale). I remember it being a big deal to keep all the WC cables the same length. As you pointed out, its a give and take. What is most important to the engineer and does the studio system/layout call for it. |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 9, 2016 10:32:22 GMT -6
most of the people that are gonna buy this (basically forum members here) have one interface with 8, maybe 16 channels. they don't have 96 channels of conversion that need clocking. So are you saying that people don't need a lot of BNC outputs? Honestly it wouldn't matter much if I buffered out 6 outputs, I'm just wondering what people want. Target the Prosumer/weekend warrior market, and you'll sell a lot of these. |
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Post by M57 on Aug 9, 2016 19:16:46 GMT -6
So are you saying that people don't need a lot of BNC outputs? Honestly it wouldn't matter much if I buffered out 6 outputs, I'm just wondering what people want. Target the Prosumer/weekend warrior market, and you'll sell a lot of these. Will he?? - Because you described me (I think). I've been spending a chunk on hardware related to the mic chain, but once in the DAW it pretty much stays there. I'm pretty sure I'm not a potential customer for one of these, right? If I had a $1k burning a hole in my pocket right now, I'd be eyeing a 1073 clone to give me color options, or perhaps a stereo companion for my WA-2A, or maybe ribbon mic, or a nice VSL string collection or upgrading my monitors, or getting some diffusors to better treat my room - or etc. Why would I even consider one of these? |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 9, 2016 19:18:11 GMT -6
Because it's not going to cost $1k. He even said he can do what BLA is doing with the micro clock but for waaaaay cheaper.
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Post by rocinante on Aug 9, 2016 20:40:09 GMT -6
There ain't a ton of clocks out there so you actually have a market. I was kinda hoping you were gonna get ambitious and go the controller route but for those of us who have a high channel count and several converters a clock is probably more important. I've been meaning to get an external clock so I'm intrigued.
I'm interested.
Although I gotta tell you; the 2 in/out 2192 svartbox sounds really appealing.
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Post by M57 on Aug 10, 2016 4:23:52 GMT -6
Because it's not going to cost $1k. He even said he can do what BLA is doing with the micro clock but for waaaaay cheaper. But I'm not using a converter or multiple A/D,D/A converters, so I don't even need one in the first place, do I? Like I said, once ITB, I stay in there. That's part of the problem, If I'm a potential customer - something's wrong - I don't even understand what a clock does. I've read about jitter and shift numerous times now, and I suppose I get how it works - but I don't understand where it works, and have no clue what it sounds like. In doing my 'research,' reading threads like these I get conflicting opinions regarding if it's even necessary in the first place. Most importantly, I don't hear it; no one is posting comparisons, are they? There are red flags all over the place. |
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Post by svart on Aug 10, 2016 5:54:07 GMT -6
There ain't a ton of clocks out there so you actually have a market. I was kinda hoping you were gonna get ambitious and go the controller route but for those of us who have a high channel count and several converters a clock is probably more important. I've been meaning to get an external clock so I'm intrigued. I'm interested. Although I gotta tell you; the 2 in/out 2192 svartbox sounds really appealing. what's the "2192 svartbox"? |
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Post by svart on Aug 10, 2016 6:00:52 GMT -6
Because it's not going to cost $1k. He even said he can do what BLA is doing with the micro clock but for waaaaay cheaper. , so I don't even need one in the first place, do I? Like I said, once ITB, I stay in there. That's part of the problem, If I'm a potential customer - something's wrong - I don't even understand what a clock does. I've read about jitter and shift numerous times now, and I suppose I get how it works - but I don't understand where it works, and have no clue what it sounds like. In doing my 'research,' reading threads like these I get conflicting opinions regarding if it's even necessary in the first place. Most importantly, I don't hear it; no one is posting comparisons, are they? There are red flags all over the place. Then you don't really need one. The clock upgrades work at the converter level, to replace a cheap clock, or synchronize multiple banks of converters. I think you answered your own question. People do post comparisons, but honestly that's a crapshoot. The clock is part of a system, therefor, only you can judge what it does in your system. |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 10, 2016 9:06:40 GMT -6
M57 every time you press play in the daw and sound comes out of your speakers(which are attached to your interface aka your converter) you're hearing the effects of the Clock in your converter.. If you didn't have a converter(interface/soundcard) you wouldn't even be able to listen to music on your computer.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 10, 2016 9:09:21 GMT -6
There ain't a ton of clocks out there so you actually have a market. I was kinda hoping you were gonna get ambitious and go the controller route but for those of us who have a high channel count and several converters a clock is probably more important. I've been meaning to get an external clock so I'm intrigued. I'm interested. Although I gotta tell you; the 2 in/out 2192 svartbox sounds really appealing. what's the "2192 svartbox"? 2 channel 192khz converter. But you already made that lol |
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Post by M57 on Aug 10, 2016 9:55:00 GMT -6
M57 every time you press play in the daw and sound comes out of your speakers(which are attached to your interface aka your converter) you're hearing the effects of the Clock in your converter.. If you didn't have a converter(interface/soundcard) you wouldn't even be able to listen to music on your computer. I get it that there has to be a clock and that it's somewhere in my system. So the "Sync Source" on my Focusrite is set to "Internal." Is that internal in the Focusrite or internal in my computer? "Word Clock" is also an option that isn't greyed out. |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 10, 2016 10:03:33 GMT -6
The internal clock in your focuswrong lol
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Post by M57 on Aug 10, 2016 10:18:42 GMT -6
got it - so to attach an external clock to my happy focusRITE I would need to use the BNC connectors using both IN and OUT so they 'sync.' A/Bing would be as simple as changing the pull-down menu, right?
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 10, 2016 10:20:47 GMT -6
Chris, Do I think you could build a great inexpensive clock? HELL YES! My question as your friend is do you want the pain of supporting a clock! I thought you got out of sewer robots to get away from the shit storm! Seriously man your talking about a box that for many is as much mystic as science! Now go build me Savart box 2, a 2192/ Burl school box with attitude ! Maybe 2520's and EA Iron? 😀 Haven't read the rest of the thread, but I'm kinda with Eric on this - just for selfish reasons...Another converter ala Burl...or maybe an add-on pre/post the svart box? IDK...I'm just spitballing. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 10, 2016 10:29:52 GMT -6
Target the Prosumer/weekend warrior market, and you'll sell a lot of these. Will he?? - Because you described me (I think). I've been spending a chunk on hardware related to the mic chain, but once in the DAW it pretty much stays there. I'm pretty sure I'm not a potential customer for one of these, right? If I had a $1k burning a hole in my pocket right now, I'd be eyeing a 1073 clone to give me color options, or perhaps a stereo companion for my WA-2A, or maybe ribbon mic, or a nice VSL string collection or upgrading my monitors, or getting some diffusors to better treat my room - or etc. Why would I even consider one of these? Well - let me preface this by saying "I ain't technical..." But I've heard differences - positive differences - using external clocking. Now, maybe it's placebo. Maybe I'm hearing "bad" things like a bit of phase or whatever that's tricking me into thinking things are "wider" - IDK...I just know that I've heard the bottom seem to tighten up, the separation of instruments get more defined and the top seem smoother. YMMV. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 10, 2016 10:30:58 GMT -6
Although I gotta tell you; the 2 in/out 2192 svartbox sounds really appealing. With a badass clock already built in. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 10, 2016 10:34:03 GMT -6
But I'm not using a converter or multiple A/D,D/A converters, so I don't even need one in the first place, do I? Like I said, once ITB, I stay in there. That's part of the problem, If I'm a potential customer - something's wrong - I don't even understand what a clock does. I've read about jitter and shift numerous times now, and I suppose I get how it works - but I don't understand where it works, and have no clue what it sounds like. In doing my 'research,' reading threads like these I get conflicting opinions regarding if it's even necessary in the first place. Most importantly, I don't hear it; no one is posting comparisons, are they? There are red flags all over the place. Then you don't really need one. The clock upgrades work at the converter level, to replace a cheap clock, or synchronize multiple banks of converters. I think you answered your own question. People do post comparisons, but honestly that's a crapshoot. The clock is part of a system, therefor, only you can judge what it does in your system. yeah - if you've got a Burl, a Hilo, a Symphony, etc...not sure you would hear any difference...I don't really hear any difference when switching the clock back and forth between the Apollo BF and the Svartbox. I do hear a difference in the DA of the Svartbox in a positive way.. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 10, 2016 10:35:19 GMT -6
what's the "2192 svartbox"? 2 channel 192khz converter. But you already made that lol Yeah, I thought at some point there was some discussion about attempting a "Burl" type approach. With Xformers. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 10, 2016 10:39:13 GMT -6
got it - so to attach an external clock to my happy focusRITE I would need to use the BNC connectors using both IN and OUT so they 'sync.' A/Bing would be as simple as changing the pull-down menu, right? Hmmm. What kind of Focusrite? I would think it might improve the sound of some of the Focusrite line. Basically, you would set the Focusrite software/clock to external (W/C or spdif - whatever you connected the Focusrite and Svartclock with) and forget. You'd have to make sure the Svartclock was physically switched to the bitrate/samplerate you're using or it wouldn't lock...then you could switch between internal and External to hear what it's doing or not doing. |
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Post by svart on Aug 10, 2016 10:54:45 GMT -6
Chris, Do I think you could build a great inexpensive clock? HELL YES! My question as your friend is do you want the pain of supporting a clock! I thought you got out of sewer robots to get away from the shit storm! Seriously man your talking about a box that for many is as much mystic as science! Now go build me Savart box 2, a 2192/ Burl school box with attitude ! Maybe 2520's and EA Iron? 😀 Haven't read the rest of the thread, but I'm kinda with Eric on this - just for selfish reasons...Another converter ala Burl...or maybe an add-on pre/post the svart box? IDK...I'm just spitballing. Yeah, I had mentioned doing something like that before, maybe an add on box with transformers and variable THD or something. I still might do that though. I have an idea for that, that would require some testing though. I might have the parts in the workshop, so I might still try it out.. |
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Post by svart on Aug 10, 2016 10:58:40 GMT -6
got it - so to attach an external clock to my happy focusRITE I would need to use the BNC connectors using both IN and OUT so they 'sync.' A/Bing would be as simple as changing the pull-down menu, right? Hmmm. What kind of Focusrite? I would think it might improve the sound of some of the Focusrite line. Basically, you would set the Focusrite software/clock to external (W/C or spdif - whatever you connected the Focusrite and Svartclock with) and forget. You'd have to make sure the Svartclock was physically switched to the bitrate/samplerate you're using or it wouldn't lock...then you could switch between internal and External to hear what it's doing or not doing. For sure anything in the Scarlett line would have an improvement from external clocking. A number of folks have commented that clocking from the incoming SPDIF stream from the Svartbox yields an improvement, even just using the internal converters in the scarletts. I don't have any *scientific* evidence of this, just a handful of owners mentioning it. |
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Post by M57 on Aug 10, 2016 11:00:05 GMT -6
got it - so to attach an external clock to my happy focusRITE I would need to use the BNC connectors using both IN and OUT so they 'sync.' A/Bing would be as simple as changing the pull-down menu, right? Hmmm. What kind of Focusrite? I would think it might improve the sound of some of the Focusrite line. Basically, you would set the Focusrite software/clock to external (W/C or spdif - whatever you connected the Focusrite and Svartclock with) and forget. You'd have to make sure the Svartclock was physically switched to the bitrate/samplerate you're using or it wouldn't lock...then you could switch between internal and External to hear what it's doing or not doing. Liquid Saffire 56. It was their Flagship model 3 or 4 years ago. |
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Post by svart on Aug 10, 2016 11:00:06 GMT -6
Although I gotta tell you; the 2 in/out 2192 svartbox sounds really appealing. With a badass clock already built in. Yeah, the clock source for the SvartClock (LOL) would be relatively the same. How I would handle and divide the clock down to WC range would be different though. |
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Post by rocinante on Aug 11, 2016 8:43:32 GMT -6
Are we discussing the possibility of a Svart 2192 with a bad ass clock?
Please say yes
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