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Post by ragan on Jul 16, 2016 12:01:48 GMT -6
I've never really understood normalling/half normalling as it relates to mulling.
I've got my hardware and I/O on a couple Neutrik 1/4" patchbays. What I want to do is send a vocal out and into my Harrison EQ and then from there I want one signal to come back into the DAW and one to pass through an 1176 and back into the DAW. That way, I can parallel compress with the 1176 but have the Harrison EQ'ing both the dry and compressed signal. So two tracks in the DAW, one has just Harrison EQ and one has the same Harrison EQ and also 1176.
Anyone fill me in on how to do this? The Neutrik nays are the ones with the cards you flip around for isolated/half normalled/normalled.
Thanks.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jul 16, 2016 12:40:09 GMT -6
"Once you get the general understanding of what a normal patch bay connection is and why it is important you can then begin understand the distinction between half-normal and normal (often called full normal). We’ll explain. Most patch bays have two rows of jacks, one above the other. The normal wiring convention is that outputs are on the top row and inputs are on the bottom. Outputs normally feed inputs so this logic makes sense. That module’s output would therefore appear at a jack on the top row. The corresponding channel input would appear on the jack immediately below. If they are normalled you know you do not need to make a patch for the module to feed into that input. The only question is, what conditions will break this connection? This is the difference between full normal and half-normal. If those points are wired to be half-normal then the connection between that module and the inputs will ONLY be broken when a cable is plugged into the bottom jack (the channel input jack). Plugging a cable into the top jack (the module output) will NOT break the connection. The signal will still flow down to that channel input and simultaneously appear at the end of that cable you plugged in. This effectively creates a Y cable. Now, go back and read those WFTD entries again and they should make more sense." www.sweetwater.com/insync/patch-bays-differences-between-normal-half-normal-operation/ |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jul 16, 2016 12:48:04 GMT -6
It's easier to just make a Y-cable than to rearrange your patchbay tho. If you were to rearrange your patchbay You'd need to make the output of your EQ feed Patchbay jack #12 Top row on your patch bay, for example. And then you'd need to have DAW input 4(for example) be plugged into Patchbay jack #12 BOTTOM row on your patch bay.
For me, the ONLY benefit of doing this is if you KNOW that you will ALWAYS feed the output of that EQ into channel 4(for example) of your interface. Most folks that do full-normalling set up their patchbay so that their 8/16/24 preamps output directly into their interface's inputs. It's especially helpful if you have a console that has direct preamp outs, so you can take a feed from the console's inputs direct into the DAW and then also take a 2-trk mix from the console.
If i were you, I'd break out my soldering gun and build some Y-cables.
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Post by ragan on Jul 16, 2016 12:50:39 GMT -6
"Once you get the general understanding of what a normal patch bay connection is and why it is important you can then begin understand the distinction between half-normal and normal (often called full normal). We’ll explain. Most patch bays have two rows of jacks, one above the other. The normal wiring convention is that outputs are on the top row and inputs are on the bottom. Outputs normally feed inputs so this logic makes sense. That module’s output would therefore appear at a jack on the top row. The corresponding channel input would appear on the jack immediately below. If they are normalled you know you do not need to make a patch for the module to feed into that input. The only question is, what conditions will break this connection? This is the difference between full normal and half-normal. If those points are wired to be half-normal then the connection between that module and the inputs will ONLY be broken when a cable is plugged into the bottom jack (the channel input jack). Plugging a cable into the top jack (the module output) will NOT break the connection. The signal will still flow down to that channel input and simultaneously appear at the end of that cable you plugged in. This effectively creates a Y cable. Now, go back and read those WFTD entries again and they should make more sense." www.sweetwater.com/insync/patch-bays-differences-between-normal-half-normal-operation/Thanks for posting, I've actually read that. What I don't get is, so I've got my Harrison EQ on the bay, output on the top, input on the bottom. Why would I want the output of the EQ to be feeding the input of the same EQ (top normalled to bottom). What piece of gear do you want to have a loop like that? |
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Post by ragan on Jul 16, 2016 12:53:20 GMT -6
It's easier to just make a Y-cable than to rearrange your patchbay tho. If you were to rearrange your patchbay You'd need to make the output of your EQ feed Patchbay jack #12 Top row on your patch bay, for example. And then you'd need to have DAW input 4(for example) be plugged into Patchbay jack #12 BOTTOM row on your patch bay. For me, the ONLY benefit of doing this is if you KNOW that you will ALWAYS feed the output of that EQ into channel 4(for example) of your interface. Most folks that do full-normalling set up their patchbay so that their 8/16/24 preamps output directly into their interface's inputs. It's especially helpful if you have a console that has direct preamp outs, so you can take a feed from the console's inputs direct into the DAW and then also take a 2-trk mix from the console. If i were you, I'd break out my soldering gun and build some Y-cables. Ahh ok. Now I get it thank you. It would be a different patchbay config altogether, not just the outs on top, ins on the bottom. Why did I not think of a Y cable. Does the same thing yeah? I don't know how to make a proper TRS Y cable but I'm sure I can find out easily. Thanks Chuck. Does a Y cable require that the two split ends are unbalanced, TRS to 2 TS? |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jul 16, 2016 13:03:46 GMT -6
there are three connectors in a TRS jack. Just solder two wires onto each connector. 6 wires total.
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Post by swurveman on Jul 16, 2016 13:09:45 GMT -6
Speaking of patchbays: Do you guys cut tiny strips of paper and then attach them to the patchbay, or use tiny strips of write on strip tape? I have a Redco DSUB Patchbay and the label space is very narrow and very clumsy. It's the worst part of the design.
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Post by ragan on Jul 16, 2016 13:15:01 GMT -6
there are three connectors in a TRS jack. Just solder two wires onto each connector. 6 wires total. Gotcha. Just like pig-tailing off an outlet in residential wiring. Thanks. |
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Post by ragan on Jul 16, 2016 13:18:02 GMT -6
Speaking of patchbays: Do you guys cut tiny strips of paper and then attach them to the patchbay, or use tiny strips of write on strip tape? I have a Redco DSUB Patchbay and the label space is very narrow and very clumsy. It's the worst part of the design. I use the skinny electrical tape. Not amazing but does the job. |
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Post by swurveman on Jul 16, 2016 13:31:35 GMT -6
Speaking of patchbays: Do you guys cut tiny strips of paper and then attach them to the patchbay, or use tiny strips of write on strip tape? I have a Redco DSUB Patchbay and the label space is very narrow and very clumsy. It's the worst part of the design. I use the skinny electrical tape. Not amazing but does the job. Thanks. That looks wider than the space I'm working with, but I'll check it out. Gonna need a fine point magic marker too to get the job done in the small space. |
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Post by ragan on Jul 16, 2016 13:35:59 GMT -6
I use the skinny electrical tape. Not amazing but does the job. Thanks. That looks wider than the space I'm working with, but I'll check it out. Gonna need a fine point magic marker too to get the job done in the small space. Yeah I use the fine Sharpies. The tape touches the rings of the jacks a little but it works. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jul 16, 2016 14:53:05 GMT -6
If you're able to do so, tie 4 horizontal patch points together. It comes in super handy, we have 6 of them on our ssl patchbay. 1 in and 3 out. This is a great cheap program for patchbay labeling and looks much better than the sharpie aztecpatchbay.com |
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Post by wiz on Jul 16, 2016 16:52:14 GMT -6
Samson patch bays allow you to set direct, normal , half normal on the front of each ... With a three way switch.
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by bradd on Jul 16, 2016 17:27:14 GMT -6
Speaking of patchbays: Do you guys cut tiny strips of paper and then attach them to the patchbay, or use tiny strips of write on strip tape? I have a Redco DSUB Patchbay and the label space is very narrow and very clumsy. It's the worst part of the design. Redco has a template on their website for this bay. I print it out and cut the skinny strips of paper. It works pretty well. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,976 
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Post by ericn on Jul 16, 2016 18:12:28 GMT -6
Speaking of patchbays: Do you guys cut tiny strips of paper and then attach them to the patchbay, or use tiny strips of write on strip tape? I have a Redco DSUB Patchbay and the label space is very narrow and very clumsy. It's the worst part of the design. Redco has a template on their website for this bay. I print it out and cut the skinny strips of paper. It works pretty well. MR patch bay has a few templates you can mod as well! |
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Post by Randge on Jul 17, 2016 0:14:25 GMT -6
Speaking of patchbays: Do you guys cut tiny strips of paper and then attach them to the patchbay, or use tiny strips of write on strip tape? I have a Redco DSUB Patchbay and the label space is very narrow and very clumsy. It's the worst part of the design. One more reason I love my Switchcraft patchbays. There is a place intentionally made by Switchcraft to label properly and a piece of narrow plastic goes over it to keep it clean and protected. |
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 17, 2016 6:09:39 GMT -6
Samson patch bays allow you to set direct, normal , half normal on the front of each ... With a three way switch. Cheers Wiz These are so great! I used to have the Neutrik bays, but what a pain to flip the cards. Plus, the jacks were cheap feeling and not smooth. Catch a 15% off sale at Front End Audio and get one or two for a great price. I immediately knew it was a good move, especially since they were under 100 bucks a piece. |
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