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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 9, 2016 9:17:53 GMT -6
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Post by Guitar on Jul 9, 2016 10:28:29 GMT -6
Wow, imitation is flattery I suppose.
I'm really curious how they implemented the output attenuator.
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Post by drbill on Jul 9, 2016 10:38:10 GMT -6
Well....it only took them 25 years or so to figure out that pre is too hot and needs attenuation.... LOL
At that price, it looks like they still have some stuff to get hip to. :-(
What's the deal with the 3:1 tap of the output? what's it "do" / "sound like"?
Looks like the attenuation is more akin to the vp26, and not like the vp28.
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Post by Ward on Jul 9, 2016 11:36:34 GMT -6
Only $845.75 a piece! Well now, how about that?
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jul 9, 2016 14:28:22 GMT -6
Well....it only took them 25 years or so to figure out that pre is too hot and needs attenuation.... LOL At that price, it looks like they still have some stuff to get hip to. :-( What's the deal with the 3:1 tap of the output? what's it "do" / "sound like"? Looks like the attenuation is more akin to the vp26, and not like the vp28. When I asked API about their line amp they introduced a year or so ago in regards to the 3:1 output trafo, all I received back was some gobbledygook about driving a signal farther when I was asking about coloration regarding I/o , tx ratios and how this affects the output. I never understood the answer even after trying to research more.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 9, 2016 17:55:43 GMT -6
Wow let's see if I like the smell of solder and go SLL red dots I can get 3 of Jeff's for the price of one of these ! Add the fact that Jeff's sound like True Vintage API , no brainer I'm buying Steigers !
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Post by Ward on Jul 9, 2016 21:01:07 GMT -6
Wow let's see if I like the smell of solder and go SLL red dots I can get 3 of Jeff's for the price of one of these ! Add the fact that Jeff's sound like True Vintage API , no brainer I'm buying Steigers ! You pay for the privilege of the API name, though, Eric! Don't lose sight of that, please. The extra $600 is for a name that was built a long time ago and has a lot riding on it. Ownership brings with it the pride of knowing you own the right brand name, whether or not you can hear it. Am I being too salty again?
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Post by EmRR on Jul 9, 2016 22:29:38 GMT -6
Oh, man, those knobs!
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Post by Ward on Jul 10, 2016 5:30:08 GMT -6
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Post by rocinante on Jul 10, 2016 9:36:12 GMT -6
I sold my api 512's years ago and spent part of the money at Capi which was an excellent investment. I have 8 channels of 312 style preamps and any one of them i consider on par if not offering far more options than the api's did. Especially my m-3124 which not only has an input pad but an output pad as well and utilizes illuminated pushbuttons. Eat your heart out api. And check out the knobs
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Post by sozocaps on Jul 10, 2016 11:37:04 GMT -6
Yea... the CAPI VP28 has an additional op amp and transformer which makes all the difference... If they just have a variable resistor that's a joke...
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 10, 2016 12:07:41 GMT -6
Wow let's see if I like the smell of solder and go SLL red dots I can get 3 of Jeff's for the price of one of these ! Add the fact that Jeff's sound like True Vintage API , no brainer I'm buying Steigers ! You pay for the privilege of the API name, though, Eric! Don't lose sight of that, please. The extra $600 is for a name that was built a long time ago and has a lot riding on it. Ownership brings with it the pride of knowing you own the right brand name, whether or not you can hear it. Am I being too salty again? A bit salty, A Brands value is in what it represents, says the guy who was once naive / stupid enough to buy a Porsche 924. These days it's a BMW X5, BMW bought Landrover learned what they did right and built the X5. I when I wear a Suit I wear Armani Becasuse it fits not because of the label ( not that I ever pay close to full price) ! A Brand is valuable as long as it delivers what the buyer perceives, API isn't bad, in many ways if you realize Sals design philosophy it is a modern version of the old days ( Sal wasn't about expensive components and all about borrowing from others those knobs transformers and opamps were all off the shelf inexpensive solutions.) The sound is what I'm looking for and the sound of what API was the API sound I remember falling head over heals for it isn't today, it sure measures better but I don't listen though an Audio Precison! while Jeff and I have only met Via the net I like the guy I have also know Larry and many of the people behind API these days, we will leave it at that. The fact that CAPI even if I were to have somebody else do the build comes in at 1/2 the MAP of API and I get to pick what generation opamps and can pick my transformer is icing on a very sweet cake! Let's not forget the accusations against Jeff copying the 512 and then now learning the wisdom of Jeff's design well call my cynic. The Real brand value as an investment, well if I just look at the monetary investment I have broke even on any CAPI I have sold, API of the same vintage has lost money on the used market! The single factor that will keep most CAPI from appreciating in the future is the DIY builder, the unknown skill level makes it a bit of a crap shoot. The Value CAPI delivers makes it a Brand I value more than modern API, ( the stupid " The Box " and the DC'ing of the one summing solution that I see as having potential with an opamp and transformer swap (8200/7800/7600) really made me lose hope for API if you were in the market for anything smaller than a 1608 or wanted to grow overtime really devalued the brand ( as did the fact that I found I went from liking my modern 560 to loving my 560 with a swap to a SLL red dot )!
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Post by scumbum on Jul 11, 2016 13:01:15 GMT -6
I'll never buy API products ever again . That guy Larry that runs it is a giant jerk . One time I posted that I sold my 512c's and bought CAPI instead and how much better they sounded to me , probably from using better quality parts and I get this PM from him ,
"Dear Scum,
While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I find it VERY, VERY unfair, and a personal affront to me and my company that you ASSUME that API has some agenda that uses cheap parts, cuts corners or somehow builds an inferior product for the sake of profits - as you so positively stated in your post.
I have personally taken the last 11 years of my life to resurrect the brand, improve build quality and introduce new and innovative products that are built with THE VERY SAME PARTS, QUALITY AND CARE that has defined API since the 1960s. Protecting the brand is our primary concern, not how cheap we can make a piece of legendary audio gear.
While it is true that different studios, a variety of different rooms, equipment and material can affect the way a project sounds - your particular opinion is not typical.
I don't have any idea how many chart-topping projects have been done with the mic pre's you built, but I can provide you an extensive list of hits that go all the way back to the late 1960s that have been recorded on API 512 mic preamps - and we are proud of that statistic. PLEASE DON"T SLAG a company you know nothing about.
Best Regards,
Larry Droppa
President"
That pm alone shows how stupid he is .
The 512 mic pre recorded all the hits back to the 60's ??
They have used the same parts since the 60's ??
The CAPI is an exact recreation on the mic pre used to record all those hits he speaks of . His 512c has nothing to do with those old hit records , whereas CAPI is the closest you can get without the real thing .
As you can see hes an idiot .
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Post by drbill on Jul 11, 2016 15:25:16 GMT -6
Yea... the CAPI VP28 has an additional op amp and transformer which makes all the difference... If they just have a variable resistor that's a joke... Not a joke. I'd say it's MUCH more useful than a 512B/C where you are left with having to use the pad or put something else behind the pre. The VP26/25's are essentially the same idea. Attenuation (not atten and boost like the 28) on the output. VERY useful.
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Post by drbill on Jul 11, 2016 15:32:46 GMT -6
I'll never buy API products ever again . That guy Larry that runs it is a giant jerk . One time I posted that I sold my 512c's and bought CAPI instead and how much better they sounded to me , probably from using better quality parts and I get this PM from him , "Dear Scum, While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I find it VERY, VERY unfair, and a personal affront to me and my company that you ASSUME that API has some agenda that uses cheap parts, cuts corners or somehow builds an inferior product for the sake of profits - as you so positively stated in your post. I have personally taken the last 11 years of my life to resurrect the brand, improve build quality and introduce new and innovative products that are built with THE VERY SAME PARTS, QUALITY AND CARE that has defined API since the 1960s. Protecting the brand is our primary concern, not how cheap we can make a piece of legendary audio gear. While it is true that different studios, a variety of different rooms, equipment and material can affect the way a project sounds - your particular opinion is not typical. I don't have any idea how many chart-topping projects have been done with the mic pre's you built, but I can provide you an extensive list of hits that go all the way back to the late 1960s that have been recorded on API 512 mic preamps - and we are proud of that statistic. PLEASE DON"T SLAG a company you know nothing about. Best Regards, Larry Droppa President" That pm alone shows how stupid he is . The 512 mic pre recorded all the hits back to the 60's ?? They have used the same parts since the 60's ?? The CAPI is an exact recreation on the mic pre used to record all those hits he speaks of . His 512c has nothing to do with those old hit records , whereas CAPI is the closest you can get without the real thing . As you can see hes an idiot . I didn't see anything that makes him an idiot or a jerk. Just a man defending his products. Saying that he is a jerk and an idiot is in and of itself is kind of rude, and at least he didn't call you out in public. Now....ill informed or ignorant, then yeah, no doubt. I've got serial number 003 and 004 of the 512B's and I believe I got them in the mid to late 80's -- 15-20 years after the time period of the 60's Larry is commenting on, so yeah, I think his history is off. Although I've got 8 CAPI's, I'll always keep the 512B's though. Although I favor the 26's and 28's more, the 512B's definitely have a place in my lineup. They are more aggressive and for lack of a better term "brash" than the CAPI pre's. Plus they have one of the best dam DI's I've ever used. I don't know if they went from 312's to 512B's though. Anyone know if there were 512A's? Or plain old 512's with no suffix?
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Post by scumbum on Jul 11, 2016 15:45:50 GMT -6
I'll never buy API products ever again . That guy Larry that runs it is a giant jerk . One time I posted that I sold my 512c's and bought CAPI instead and how much better they sounded to me , probably from using better quality parts and I get this PM from him , "Dear Scum, While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I find it VERY, VERY unfair, and a personal affront to me and my company that you ASSUME that API has some agenda that uses cheap parts, cuts corners or somehow builds an inferior product for the sake of profits - as you so positively stated in your post. I have personally taken the last 11 years of my life to resurrect the brand, improve build quality and introduce new and innovative products that are built with THE VERY SAME PARTS, QUALITY AND CARE that has defined API since the 1960s. Protecting the brand is our primary concern, not how cheap we can make a piece of legendary audio gear. While it is true that different studios, a variety of different rooms, equipment and material can affect the way a project sounds - your particular opinion is not typical. I don't have any idea how many chart-topping projects have been done with the mic pre's you built, but I can provide you an extensive list of hits that go all the way back to the late 1960s that have been recorded on API 512 mic preamps - and we are proud of that statistic. PLEASE DON"T SLAG a company you know nothing about. Best Regards, Larry Droppa President" That pm alone shows how stupid he is . The 512 mic pre recorded all the hits back to the 60's ?? They have used the same parts since the 60's ?? The CAPI is an exact recreation on the mic pre used to record all those hits he speaks of . His 512c has nothing to do with those old hit records , whereas CAPI is the closest you can get without the real thing . As you can see hes an idiot . I didn't see anything that makes him an idiot or a jerk. Just a man defending his products. Saying that he is a jerk and an idiot is in and of itself is kind of rude, and at least he didn't call you out in public. Now....ill informed or ignorant, then yeah, no doubt. I've got serial number 003 and 004 of the 512B's and I believe I got them in the mid to late 80's -- 15-20 years after the time period of the 60's Larry is commenting on, so yeah, I think his history is off. Although I've got 8 CAPI's, I'll always keep the 512B's though. Although I favor the 26's and 28's more, the 512B's definitely have a place in my lineup. They are more aggressive and for lack of a better term "brash" than the CAPI pre's. I don't know if they went from 312's to 512B's though. Anyone know if there were 512A's? Or plain old 512's with no suffix? Hes the owner of the company and doesn't know the history of his own products ?? Its not like they made hundreds of different types of products and its difficult to keep track . To say the 512 recorded all the api hits all the way back to the 60's and that it uses the same parts from the 60's up until today ........come on Bill , thats pretty "ill informed" I would say . I know pretty much nothing about electronics and yet I know the differences . Thats pretty sad .
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Post by drbill on Jul 11, 2016 16:45:10 GMT -6
Like I said - ignorant. I don't see how that makes him a jerk or an idiot. Remember, this is supposed to be a kinder, gentler place. Right?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 11, 2016 17:01:52 GMT -6
Like I said - ignorant. I don't see how that makes him a jerk or an idiot. Remember, this is supposed to be a kinder, gentler place. Right? Bill I think the jerk part is Larrys history of makeing unsolicited private communications concerning is products with a condescending revisionist history that is often contradictory to what others who have been in his position before him and others with a first hand knowledge that predates his have publicly stated !
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Post by Guitar on Jul 11, 2016 17:05:54 GMT -6
I asked them about the 2520 Op Amp and differences over the years, and they told me, "They are the same as they always have been, never changed." Which to me is a complete misinformation, given how the new ones sound different from old.
I also have had hit and miss relations with the API service department.
Clearly my ball is in the CAPI corner for the most part, now. Not that it's necessarily a contest, but the products do overlap to some degree.
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Post by drbill on Jul 11, 2016 17:42:47 GMT -6
Like I said - ignorant. I don't see how that makes him a jerk or an idiot. Remember, this is supposed to be a kinder, gentler place. Right? Bill I think the jerk part is Larrys history of makeing unsolicited private communications concerning is products with a condescending revisionist history that is often contradictory to what others who have been in his position before him and others with a first hand knowledge that predates his have publicly stated ! Well....I suppose that would make him a liar or misinformed or ignorant. I've known some REALLY nice liars that were no where close to being jerks.
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Post by sll on Jul 11, 2016 17:51:59 GMT -6
I asked them about the 2520 Op Amp and differences over the years, and they told me, "They are the same as they always have been, never changed." Which to me is a complete misinformation, given how the new ones sound different from old. I also have had hit and miss relations with the API service department. Clearly my ball is in the CAPI corner for the most part, now. Not that it's necessarily a contest, but the products do overlap to some degree. They have changed. All it takes is to open one up and look. I've noticed changes from a 1999 opamp vs. a 2007. The circuit stayed the same, but components changed. That changes the sound for better or worse depending on what you like.
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Post by joseph on Jul 11, 2016 18:22:27 GMT -6
Fact is CAPI stuff sounds much more like 70s API, boutique but affordable products that fit the taste of a certain segment of audio engineers. Some of whom like Rob Schnapf with serious experience of the real thing.
But API are one of the few large format console makers.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 11, 2016 18:30:20 GMT -6
I asked them about the 2520 Op Amp and differences over the years, and they told me, "They are the same as they always have been, never changed." Which to me is a complete misinformation, given how the new ones sound different from old. I also have had hit and miss relations with the API service department. Clearly my ball is in the CAPI corner for the most part, now. Not that it's necessarily a contest, but the products do overlap to some degree. They have changed. All it takes is to open one up and look. I've noticed changes from a 1999 opamp vs. a 2007. The circuit stayed the same, but components changed. That changes the sound for better or worse depending on what you like. Scott the "truthyness " of this is what has really pissed people off! Many feel their favorite version is the holly grail! The funny part of this is old Sal would have had no problem changing components if it saved a buck! Here is where I see Larry as very much like Sal and less like Paul Wolf who was very much a costodian and tried to elevate API into a highend powerhouse and less of a workmans tool that many of the old timers view API as!
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Post by sll on Jul 11, 2016 19:01:30 GMT -6
They have changed. All it takes is to open one up and look. I've noticed changes from a 1999 opamp vs. a 2007. The circuit stayed the same, but components changed. That changes the sound for better or worse depending on what you like. Scott the "truthyness " of this is what has really pissed people off! Many feel their favorite version is the holly grail! The funny part of this is old Sal would have had no problem changing components if it saved a buck! Here is where I see Larry as very much like Sal and less like Paul Wolf who was very much a costodian and tried to elevate API into a highend powerhouse and less of a workmans tool that many of the old timers view API as! Right. They had to change, the old parts aren't available anymore. They also changed the PCB layout to make it tidier and more efficient to manufacture. I get that. It comes down to marketing, and they don't want to steer people away from their product. They say they sound exactly like the vintage ones.
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Post by scumbum on Jul 11, 2016 19:08:24 GMT -6
Like I said - ignorant. I don't see how that makes him a jerk or an idiot. Remember, this is supposed to be a kinder, gentler place. Right? Your right , Ok I looked up synonyms for "idiot" , help me pick a better word , Synonyms = airhead, birdbrain, blockhead, bonehead, bubblehead, chowderhead, chucklehead, clodpoll (or clodpole), clot [British], cluck, clunk, cretin, cuddy (or cuddie) [British dialect], deadhead, dim bulb [slang], dimwit, dip, dodo, dolt, donkey, doofus [slang], dope, dork [slang], dullard, dumbbell, dumbhead, dum-dum, dummkopf, dummy, dunce, dunderhead, fathead, gander, golem, goof, goon, half-wit, hammerhead, hardhead, ignoramus, imbecile, jackass, know-nothing, knucklehead, lamebrain, loggerhead [chiefly dialect], loon, lump, lunkhead, meathead, mome [archaic], moron, mug [chiefly British], mutt, natural, nimrod [slang], nincompoop, ninny, ninnyhammer, nit [chiefly British], nitwit, noddy, noodle, numskull (or numbskull), oaf, pinhead, prat [British], ratbag [chiefly Australian], saphead, schlub (also shlub) [slang], schnook [slang], simpleton, stock, stupe, stupid, thickhead, turkey, woodenhead, yahoo, yo-yo Ok , Larry is a "chowderhead" for not knowing the accurate history of his own company's products .
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